ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 1239.

Monster Tent

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: Gabit on March 08, 2013, 07:48:25 AM

Quote from: Monster Tent on March 08, 2013, 07:12:59 AM

Quote from: Gabit on March 08, 2013, 03:44:52 AM

Quote from: interlagos on March 07, 2013, 05:15:39 PM

I hope friedcat has some serious plans for the summer period.
I'm not sure anybody can compete with 28nm SOI at the moment (as in the first linked thread), but ASICMINER can work together with them!

Agree, in multiple levels (assuming these 28nm guys are legit, and their product is superior):
1) Buying a percentage of their production, would secure our share of the network
2) Making boards our selves would reduce the cost, hedging against those who would buy them assembled (=other miners have to pay profits of the assembly company)
3) Asicminer would be able to sell those assembled boards. Those would secure some of our profit / hashrate out there.
4) Asicminer should sell as much as possible those boards to shareholders, thus generating extra value to them (I'm greedy, I know)
5) Reduced R&D costs

What is stopping ASICminer from ordering 28nm chips ?

1) R&D costs
2) R&D time
2) Risk of failure, and loss of capital, and loss of hashrate due delay
3) higher chip price (if the guys are so large as the given impression)

I know that friedcat&co are very capable people, but why take risks when one can be without? At least we should diversify (some chips in house, some out sourced). And there is a reason why, Apple for example, uses Intel chips nowadays. We don't have to order them right away, there is 50TH+ still coming. But they are claiming that they will put out 1 PH, with superior hash/joule in the first run. And that would drop our share of the network to around 6% with the 12+50TH, and then there is other competition too. Buying for example 10% of their production would be beneficial, even if the chips never went online.

I meant that they could buy the chips from this other company if they are legit.

lophie

hero member

Activity: 924

Merit: 1003

Unlimited Free Crypto

Quote from: friedcat on August 09, 2012, 03:57:28 AM

Thank you. Maybe it's just me kidding, but I still can't help my self saying it's not totally impossible
that the whole return could buy you a bar after several years. Grin

On first page (for reference), Maybe the first "under-estimation" ASICMINER did

Gabit

full member

Activity: 145

Merit: 100

Quote from: Monster Tent on March 08, 2013, 07:12:59 AM

Quote from: Gabit on March 08, 2013, 03:44:52 AM

Quote from: interlagos on March 07, 2013, 05:15:39 PM

I hope friedcat has some serious plans for the summer period.
I'm not sure anybody can compete with 28nm SOI at the moment (as in the first linked thread), but ASICMINER can work together with them!

Agree, in multiple levels (assuming these 28nm guys are legit, and their product is superior):
1) Buying a percentage of their production, would secure our share of the network
2) Making boards our selves would reduce the cost, hedging against those who would buy them assembled (=other miners have to pay profits of the assembly company)
3) Asicminer would be able to sell those assembled boards. Those would secure some of our profit / hashrate out there.
4) Asicminer should sell as much as possible those boards to shareholders, thus generating extra value to them (I'm greedy, I know)
5) Reduced R&D costs

What is stopping ASICminer from ordering 28nm chips ?

1) R&D costs
2) R&D time
2) Risk of failure, and loss of capital, and loss of hashrate due delay
3) higher chip price (if the guys are so large as the given impression)

I know that friedcat&co are very capable people, but why take risks when one can be without? At least we should diversify (some chips in house, some out sourced). And there is a reason why, Apple for example, uses Intel chips nowadays. We don't have to order them right away, there is 50TH+ still coming. But they are claiming that they will put out 1 PH, with superior hash/joule in the first run. And that would drop our share of the network to around 6% with the 12+50TH, and then there is other competition too. Buying for example 10% of their production would be beneficial, even if the chips never went online.

Monster Tent

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: Gabit on March 08, 2013, 03:44:52 AM

Quote from: interlagos on March 07, 2013, 05:15:39 PM

I hope friedcat has some serious plans for the summer period.
I'm not sure anybody can compete with 28nm SOI at the moment (as in the first linked thread), but ASICMINER can work together with them!

Agree, in multiple levels (assuming these 28nm guys are legit, and their product is superior):
1) Buying a percentage of their production, would secure our share of the network
2) Making boards our selves would reduce the cost, hedging against those who would buy them assembled (=other miners have to pay profits of the assembly company)
3) Asicminer would be able to sell those assembled boards. Those would secure some of our profit / hashrate out there.
4) Asicminer should sell as much as possible those boards to shareholders, thus generating extra value to them (I'm greedy, I know)
5) Reduced R&D costs

What is stopping ASICminer from ordering 28nm chips ?

🏰 TradeFortress 🏰

vip

Activity: 1316

Merit: 1043

👻

Quote from: SebastianJu on March 08, 2013, 06:21:05 AM

Quote from: VeeMiner on March 08, 2013, 03:27:23 AM

but also will be selling ASICS for "home" use in next months.

I hope that time wont come so fast because then the profits would move to single persons instead to the shareholders in a whole. Plus... who will be favored to get a unit? And i hope the prices for the asics will be really high. When i see avalon that is selling the unit for $1299 and this unit is earning this:

   Coins   Dollars
per Day   ฿7.48    $321.97
per Week   ฿52.39   $2,253.82
per Month   ฿227.51   $9,788.01

Then thats an extremely stupid thing to sell it at this price i think. You create competition, earn less this way and would have made way more in one single week. I mean think about it... you sell something and could have done twice as much as you sell it for in one week. So you sold it for peanuts for a one time gain while you could have earned way way more over time. Only in one year a hundred times as much. So if the shareholders would be asked i would never say yes to such stupid prices. Plus you create competition that leads to less own miningearning.

But at least that time wont come so soon.

When people actually get their avalons, the difficulty will increase by so much that you shouldn't use that "calculator".

SebastianJu

legendary

Activity: 2674

Merit: 1083

Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile

Quote from: VeeMiner on March 08, 2013, 03:27:23 AM

but also will be selling ASICS for "home" use in next months.

I hope that time wont come so fast because then the profits would move to single persons instead to the shareholders in a whole. Plus... who will be favored to get a unit? And i hope the prices for the asics will be really high. When i see avalon that is selling the unit for $1299 and this unit is earning this:

   Coins   Dollars
per Day   ฿7.48    $321.97
per Week   ฿52.39   $2,253.82
per Month   ฿227.51   $9,788.01

Then thats an extremely stupid thing to sell it at this price i think. You create competition, earn less this way and would have made way more in one single week. I mean think about it... you sell something and could have done twice as much as you sell it for in one week. So you sold it for peanuts for a one time gain while you could have earned way way more over time. Only in one year a hundred times as much. So if the shareholders would be asked i would never say yes to such stupid prices. Plus you create competition that leads to less own miningearning.

But at least that time wont come so soon.

Gabit

full member

Activity: 145

Merit: 100

Quote from: interlagos on March 07, 2013, 05:15:39 PM

I hope friedcat has some serious plans for the summer period.
I'm not sure anybody can compete with 28nm SOI at the moment (as in the first linked thread), but ASICMINER can work together with them!

Agree, in multiple levels (assuming these 28nm guys are legit, and their product is superior):
1) Buying a percentage of their production, would secure our share of the network
2) Making boards our selves would reduce the cost, hedging against those who would buy them assembled (=other miners have to pay profits of the assembly company)
3) Asicminer would be able to sell those assembled boards. Those would secure some of our profit / hashrate out there.
4) Asicminer should sell as much as possible those boards to shareholders, thus generating extra value to them (I'm greedy, I know)
5) Reduced R&D costs

VeeMiner

hero member

Activity: 752

Merit: 500

bitcoin hodler

Quote from: interlagos on March 07, 2013, 05:15:39 PM

Add to this around 1 Petahash in June from these guys:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1580984

And around 40 TH (500 units x 80 GH) from these guys within next week (if they are real):
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1597462

So the mining landscape is changing drastically. Avalon and BFL don't look all that scary anymore.

I hope friedcat has some serious plans for the summer period.
I'm not sure anybody can compete with 28nm SOI at the moment (as in the first linked thread), but ASICMINER can work together with them!

PrimeAsic is 95% a scam, the other company seems interesting, but we will have to wait for further development. The only other asic than ASICMINER and Avalon, which will likely deliver is currently BFL. However it might take them months to deliver enough machines to make any difference in difficulty. In these months ASICMINER will mine a lot of BTC and they will have capital for enlarging the business. Friedcat proved to be a very good enterpreneur and I believe that the company will not only reach 50 Thash but also will be selling ASICS for "home" use in next months. As a shareholder I also hope that we will be the first ones to be able to order a working miner for home use.

I think that ASICMINER should work on developing "home" mining devices because it's not good to centralize the mining too much. Not good for Bitcoin overall I mean.

SebastianJu

legendary

Activity: 2674

Merit: 1083

Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile

Quote from: lophie on March 07, 2013, 06:59:52 PM

Quote from: SebastianJu on March 07, 2013, 06:19:05 PM

I think theres no danger. Each of these companies are working as hard as they can... at least they should... because time is money. It wouldnt change anything if they knew that asicminer is mining with 62GH now...

Going after your argumentation it could even be the opposite... that they feel like giving up and lose hope because they see others dominating the market...

It did cost alot of money, sweat and blood for this to deserve the TH instead of GH. It is the least you can do man....

Right... that result would be a bit poor...

lophie

hero member

Activity: 924

Merit: 1003

Unlimited Free Crypto

Quote from: SebastianJu on March 07, 2013, 06:19:05 PM

I think theres no danger. Each of these companies are working as hard as they can... at least they should... because time is money. It wouldnt change anything if they knew that asicminer is mining with 62GH now...

Going after your argumentation it could even be the opposite... that they feel like giving up and lose hope because they see others dominating the market...

It did cost alot of money, sweat and blood for this to deserve the TH instead of GH. It is the least you can do man....

interlagos

hero member

Activity: 496

Merit: 500

Quote from: Deprived on March 07, 2013, 06:11:04 PM

Quote from: interlagos on March 07, 2013, 05:15:39 PM

Quote from: phantastisch on March 07, 2013, 05:01:18 PM

Quote from: bitfair on March 07, 2013, 04:42:54 PM

Quote from: bitfair on March 05, 2013, 06:33:59 AM

Keeping an eye on the competition: BFL chips have arrived in the packaging facility, scheduled for packaging on Wednesday (subject to change).

In other words, they still have a long way to go before their customers can start hashing. I would guess at least another two weeks...

Replying to myself here with another speculation:

BFL is expecting 5000 chips in their first batch, clocked at 350 MHz, with 16 cores each. Multiply them all together, looks like their first batch is only 28 TH/s. That is a lot lower than the estimates I have seen earlier, around 150 TH/s -- but that was probably their total number of preorders.

Also no news on their packaging.

TLDR; BFL won't be a serious threat for a long time yet.

BFL has actually 75000 Chips in preorders. They are expected to bring around 750 TH until june 2013 (BFL-Time)

Add to this around 1 Petahash in June from these guys:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1580984

And around 40 TH (500 units x 80 GH) from these guys within next week (if they are real):
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1597462

So the mining landscape is changing drastically. Avalon and BFL don't look all that scary anymore.

I hope friedcat has some serious plans for the summer period.
I'm not sure anybody can compete with 28nm SOI at the moment (as in the first linked thread), but ASICMINER can work together with them!

The 40 TH one is definitely a scam.

My crystal ball says they are not, but we will find out soon enough

Quote from: Deprived on March 07, 2013, 06:11:04 PM

The 1 Petahash one could be real or could be scam - no way to know yet. If some company bites on their offer then that company will find out based on whether they get given a demo or asked for some cash up front for some unforeseen problem that just cropped up.

Those guys look way too serious to be a scam, but I agree that prices and unexpected costs might be a set back for some.
They promised to make a joint public announcement with their two approved B2C partners by the end of March.

Interesting times ahead!

matauc12

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 500

I am fine with updates not talking about the future, your every move, Q&A. Even the financials, if they are not done time is better spent somewhere else.

But current available information that basically just needs confirmation bugs me a bit. At least if I have to wait another week for it.

SebastianJu

legendary

Activity: 2674

Merit: 1083

Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile

Quote from: friedcat on March 07, 2013, 02:18:32 PM

...we currently owe the board members more active contact and the community the samples.

WHY? I understand it right that someone will get an asic right? But first its said all shareholders will be treated the same and then a sample should be given to someone? That doesnt make sense to me. Even when it would be to start the selling of asics it wouldnt make sense at this point anymore because everyone knows quite fine now that the asics work.

I would have appreaciated to get info about what part of work is the thing that slows down everything so that we could think about a solution.

Anyway... i appreciate the work you guys do and thank you for it. Plus the dividends i got so far...

But please give some more informations to the shareholders so they dont have to guess so much fruitlessly... i mean writing a post is a matter of some minutes only...

Quote from: JaredR26 on March 07, 2013, 04:08:33 PM

Honestly I'd rather them not tell us.

If we know where/how much we are hashing, our competition can make estimates and move to counter our hashing. The lack of knowledge about our hashpower may make them hesitate(or rashly bite off more than they can chew). If they get in the habit of keeping things under wraps now, ultimately shareholders may benefit more than the comfort of having numbers.

I think theres no danger. Each of these companies are working as hard as they can... at least they should... because time is money. It wouldnt change anything if they knew that asicminer is mining with 62GH now...

Going after your argumentation it could even be the opposite... that they feel like giving up and lose hope because they see others dominating the market...

Deprived

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: interlagos on March 07, 2013, 05:15:39 PM

Quote from: phantastisch on March 07, 2013, 05:01:18 PM

Quote from: bitfair on March 07, 2013, 04:42:54 PM

Quote from: bitfair on March 05, 2013, 06:33:59 AM

Keeping an eye on the competition: BFL chips have arrived in the packaging facility, scheduled for packaging on Wednesday (subject to change).

In other words, they still have a long way to go before their customers can start hashing. I would guess at least another two weeks...

Replying to myself here with another speculation:

BFL is expecting 5000 chips in their first batch, clocked at 350 MHz, with 16 cores each. Multiply them all together, looks like their first batch is only 28 TH/s. That is a lot lower than the estimates I have seen earlier, around 150 TH/s -- but that was probably their total number of preorders.

Also no news on their packaging.

TLDR; BFL won't be a serious threat for a long time yet.

BFL has actually 75000 Chips in preorders. They are expected to bring around 750 TH until june 2013 (BFL-Time)

Add to this around 1 Petahash in June from these guys:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1580984

And around 40 TH (500 units x 80 GH) from these guys within next week (if they are real):
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1597462

So the mining landscape is changing drastically. Avalon and BFL don't look all that scary anymore.

I hope friedcat has some serious plans for the summer period.
I'm not sure anybody can compete with 28nm SOI at the moment (as in the first linked thread), but ASICMINER can work together with them!

The 40 TH one is definitely a scam.

The 1 Petahash one could be real or could be scam - no way to know yet. If some company bites on their offer then that company will find out based on whether they get given a demo or asked for some cash up front for some unforeseen problem that just cropped up.

interlagos

hero member

Activity: 496

Merit: 500

Quote from: phantastisch on March 07, 2013, 05:01:18 PM

Quote from: bitfair on March 07, 2013, 04:42:54 PM

Quote from: bitfair on March 05, 2013, 06:33:59 AM

Keeping an eye on the competition: BFL chips have arrived in the packaging facility, scheduled for packaging on Wednesday (subject to change).

In other words, they still have a long way to go before their customers can start hashing. I would guess at least another two weeks...

Replying to myself here with another speculation:

BFL is expecting 5000 chips in their first batch, clocked at 350 MHz, with 16 cores each. Multiply them all together, looks like their first batch is only 28 TH/s. That is a lot lower than the estimates I have seen earlier, around 150 TH/s -- but that was probably their total number of preorders.

Also no news on their packaging.

TLDR; BFL won't be a serious threat for a long time yet.

BFL has actually 75000 Chips in preorders. They are expected to bring around 750 TH until june 2013 (BFL-Time)

Add to this around 1 Petahash in June from these guys:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1580984

And around 40 TH (500 units x 80 GH) from these guys within next week (if they are real):
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1597462

So the mining landscape is changing drastically. Avalon and BFL don't look all that scary anymore.

I hope friedcat has some serious plans for the summer period.
I'm not sure anybody can compete with 28nm SOI at the moment (as in the first linked thread), but ASICMINER can work together with them!

phantastisch

legendary

Activity: 2271

Merit: 1363

Quote from: bitfair on March 07, 2013, 04:42:54 PM

Quote from: bitfair on March 05, 2013, 06:33:59 AM

Keeping an eye on the competition: BFL chips have arrived in the packaging facility, scheduled for packaging on Wednesday (subject to change).

In other words, they still have a long way to go before their customers can start hashing. I would guess at least another two weeks...

Replying to myself here with another speculation:

BFL is expecting 5000 chips in their first batch, clocked at 350 MHz, with 16 cores each. Multiply them all together, looks like their first batch is only 28 TH/s. That is a lot lower than the estimates I have seen earlier, around 150 TH/s -- but that was probably their total number of preorders.

Also no news on their packaging.

TLDR; BFL won't be a serious threat for a long time yet.

BFL has actually 75000 Chips in preorders. They are expected to bring around 750 TH until june 2013 (BFL-Time)

bitfair

sr. member

Activity: 362

Merit: 250

Quote from: bitfair on March 05, 2013, 06:33:59 AM

Keeping an eye on the competition: BFL chips have arrived in the packaging facility, scheduled for packaging on Wednesday (subject to change).

In other words, they still have a long way to go before their customers can start hashing. I would guess at least another two weeks...

Replying to myself here with another speculation:

BFL is expecting 5000 chips in their first batch, clocked at 350 MHz, with 16 cores each. Multiply them all together, looks like their first batch is only 28 TH/s. That is a lot lower than the estimates I have seen earlier, around 150 TH/s -- but that was probably their total number of preorders.

Also no news on their packaging.

TLDR; BFL won't be a serious threat for a long time yet.

JaredR26

full member

Activity: 219

Merit: 100

Quote from: SmiGueL on March 07, 2013, 04:06:51 PM

Quote from: DutchBrat on March 07, 2013, 02:35:25 PM

Can you elaborate on where you are hashing at the moment and under which usernames/IDs.... So we can keep track of our hashing power :-)

I would also like to know that

The ~4 TH/s on BTCGuild is pretty clear,
But I'm not sure whether to add Anonymous from ozco.in to the graph of ASICMINER Hashing Speed.
(When the bitfountainx user stopped, the Anonymous user hashrate rised as mentioned here. And the next morning the opposite happened as I mentioned. here.

IF that is true, that would mean an average Hash Speed of 7 / 8 TH/s at the moment.

Honestly I'd rather them not tell us.

If we know where/how much we are hashing, our competition can make estimates and move to counter our hashing. The lack of knowledge about our hashpower may make them hesitate(or rashly bite off more than they can chew). If they get in the habit of keeping things under wraps now, ultimately shareholders may benefit more than the comfort of having numbers.

SmiGueL

sr. member

Activity: 322

Merit: 252

Quote from: DutchBrat on March 07, 2013, 02:35:25 PM

Can you elaborate on where you are hashing at the moment and under which usernames/IDs.... So we can keep track of our hashing power :-)

I would also like to know that

The ~4 TH/s on BTCGuild is pretty clear,
But I'm not sure whether to add Anonymous from ozco.in to the graph of ASICMINER Hashing Speed.
(When the bitfountainx user stopped, the Anonymous user hashrate rised as mentioned here. And the next morning the opposite happened as I mentioned here.

IF that is true, that would mean an average Hash Speed of 7 / 8 TH/s at the moment.

Gabit

full member

Activity: 145

Merit: 100

Could shareholders get a dedicated forum?

Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 1239. (Read 3917543 times)