Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 1238. (Read 3917029 times)

https://btct.co/security/ASICMINER-PT

at this point I pretty much missed the boat, but still would like to see if anyone still selling shares and about the expected ROI.

yes, i know what you mean, this is a free market
that is why i made also a post about BTC's future since #2 is unavoidable 
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1604973

Also, how much BTC does Satoshi hold again? A million?

I think there are already an elite group of ppl holding huge amounts of btc.

i vote also for hardware selling:
1. perhaps in the future, ASIC mining will not be that much of a profit if "free" electricity is not available
why not selling rigs to people with free electricity?
2. huge hashing power to an "elit" of people will destroy BTC
(the same goes if a few people own huge BTC ammounts)

With >10% hashing power in one facility you may as well put yourself a crosshair on the T-shirt and jump the border between pakistan and india back and forth. While I approve of bitfountains plan to benefit from the technological transition and temporarily maintain a 30% hashing power, holding that much hashing power longterm is an invitation for a malicious takeover. And yes - they will come.

Getting the hardware ready for selling is the No 1. thing on the todo list, once you hit 25% hashing power, because by selling hardware you create income from anticipated future mining profits which do not increase your operational risk. Bitfountain can not rely on competitors to sell enough hashing power so that Bitfountain doesn't have to do it.

The closest thing to "danger" from a majority miner is that they can create a side chain in secret and release it to overturn a bunch of history.  Being a majority miner in full public view is no danger to anyone, regardless of what the trolls and noobs on the forums think.

Hashing power on the network is safe hashing power.

Suppressing information to create fake confidence isn't a good idea. We'll never get to that point through.

I didnt suggest to scam the shareholders, only to save the money and give it out as dividend later. I only know that there are people that fear 51% attacks regardless if it would make sense to attack or not. And i only wrote this to fight these fears because i trust friedcat and his team very much. He proved that they are trustworthy so i wouldnt fear any loss if he would handle it this way to circumvent the fear of some people.
But ok, one could feel unease about this. Bitfountain most probably wont ever get to this point.

Please learn about what bitcoin represents and try to understand why that is a stupid suggestion. There is something like too much hashing power. Unless you're evil, then 100% is just enough.

I would prefer that the businesses I deal with are honest and do not use fraudulent accounting practices, if they are willing to defraud the entire community AND their investors they don't deserve anyone's trust.

Thanks a lot friedcat for addressing so many questions.

So the reason for stagnation of hashrate in the last week was the move to a bigger place...

I thought you once wrote that the second batch would be ready for deploying in early march... so i misread this probably. It sounded like a problem when not even the first 12TH are online.

Regarding the trial boards... i would move that far into future if it has to be done. Plus if no number is specified i would restrict it to one unit. I even would suggest to make a poll with the shareholders. Each shareholders would have the number of shares he owns as the weight in it. Like in a real stock company. So if the shareholders say that its not necessary then this point doesnt have to be fulfilled. At least i would vote against it because i dont see a reason for this now anymore even if it was promised once.

The same goes for selling asics in my opinion. The asics are way too powerful at the moment. And when i see that avalon are selling units for a price that low that they would earn the same money in a half week running this asic alone it looks nuts to me what they do. I hope bitfountain wont sell too soon and if you sell then it would be for a serious price.

And the bottleneck... you say these are mostly one-time-problems... so are these things that need to be developed so that no other person can help? Otherwise... if its some work to do by hand did you think about taking some employers on board to help out? Or wouldnt that be helpful? Maybe you meant this already with the mentioned workshops... Anyway... i hope you find a way.

In case that you get near 51%... just in case... i would suggest to partly mine solo in a hidden way. I mean its hard or even impossible to really find out who is solomining. So if it comes so far i would simply save the money earned for later times and pay out dividends for the rest. So that no one feels the fear of an 51% attack. The money wouldnt be lost and could be turned into dividends later, when the hashrate of the whole net is bigger.
But i doubt it will come near that point soon.

Wow, great update Friedcat. Really appreciate for the non-thursday update .

Would it be possible to get better financial information at regular intervals (such as loan status, total mined, percent mined going towards repayments, etc), amount "banked" for future investments, etc?

Thanks!

Thanks friedcat for the updates.
And for being conservative with the numbers.

Could you also give a bit more idea about any plans after the 60TH/s are up?

- Will we be selling ASICs to the public?
- What portion of the profits will we be allocating for the next round of manufacturing?

thanks! then 6TH are already here!
good job!
then i guess the anonymous in ozco (if it is with ASICs) is the avalon team, who else?

Update

It has been and will always be me myself who use the forum id friedcat to post updates and replies. If my partners are to announce the news or contact the shareholders instead of me, they will use their own account. Sorry for the sketchy and lack of information of the last update. I was exhausted and using a cellphone to make the reply.

The current running accounts are:

(ID 67117) on btcguild.
bitfountain, bitfountain1, bitfountain2 on ozcoin.

The anonymous user on ozcoin is not us. It might be a user with gradually bulk-purchased ASICs from other vendor, or another pool redirecting to ozcoin. Anyway we are also having not enough information to make the right conjecture. We are only of indirect competition against them. What we are directly chasing, is just the difficulty of the network.

The slow online speed is unexpected. It was caused by the bottleneck of the last stages of assembly several weeks ago, and a major modification of power supply as well as partial migrating to a larger place in the last week. Although we do not sell our devices yet so the vocabulary may be inaccurate, but roughly speaking the solution we are having is still a prototype instead of a product. Troubleshooting and time consuming works such as upgrading the power scheme and getting contracts with the other workshop has been taken up all the last week. But the best part is that most of them are one-time missions and will not be of a regular basis.

Taking as much our first-arriving advantage as we can in the limited time window is very important. All buyers of first batches of ASICs are of course having the same advantage and eating our portion especially when we were facing unstability and delays. However, as mentioned before, our shareholders are in a better place than individual miners, even those early-purchasers of ASICs. Because they share our expansions while we get the devices at the price of NRE+margin cost, instead of the price from any mining device vendors. Here is a rough estimation in the mid-term based on the rough estimation of our timeline:

By early April the next batch of finished devices will be available for deploying. At that time we will have a full team for installing and maintainance. If we get the 60TH/s online (conservative) in late April, and the hashrate of the full network from that time is 200TH/s which linearly increases to 1,000TH/s in late December. (200+1000)/2 = 600. So we will have 10% in average of the full network from late April to late December. That translates to about 88,000 Bitcoins total mined. That is 0.22BTC/share of gross income in eight months.

Also, we will always be mining from now to late April, so the revenue in this period should be counted in. And we will have more income in advance in the next years after we have access to much cheaper power. Some may say that 1,000TH/s in the end of this year is too conservative. But the calculation above about our capability is even more conservative because it does not contain our further expansion with more power efficient next-gen products.

It's possible and will definitely do it. Also in the next days if without special circumstances/announcements, new hashpower will be added to the four existing accounts. And in further future if we solo, switch to new pools, or add new accounts of ours, we will not make them anonymous but make them seen by anyone, the same as the four existing accounts.

The reason why we will give a limited number of trial boards out, is that we promised it long before (starting from Aug. 2012, the same time period when we did the fundraising via GLBSE). We did it with the intention of hoping the community could spread positive news and improve our firmware/hardware designs. We haven't predicted that our project has already proved itself to mass and already has the potential of meeting large customers if we are to sell some devices in the future without any real advertisements. We also haven't predicted that we are now way quite satisfied with our firmware and hardware design though they are done in an extreme hurry.

Of course. And indeed, sorry for the inefficiency of contact these days.

Thats right... he should/could do that. But as long as he doesnt calculating it would be a way to circumvent this lack of information. Or do i miss some facts that make this impossible?

Why so complicated.

friedcat could really just edit the OP once in a week with "Currently online xTh/s".

This isn't really very much to ask.

Isnt it possible to calculate the hashrate from last week out of the dividends paid? I mean the loans are paid back with first dividend so the second dividend should be the complete mining income. We know how many shares are sold or even could see the paid bitcoins in blockchain.info. So taking that number of bitcoins, calculate the time back to the first dividend should it make possible to find out the average hashingrate that was online between first and second dividend payment. This way maybe we can see if the hashrate is higher than ozcoin 3 times bitfountain + btcguild asicminer or not.