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Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 1287. (Read 3917029 times)

hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
A bit worrying that two people with enough shares to be on the board want to sell their shares now.

I don't want to sell my shares now but if people are stupid enough to pay 1BTC/share I'll take it.

Nastmining pays 0.001482 BTC dividend per share (seat as they call it now) per week

Price of the seat is around 0.35 BTC

I know OgNasty has ordered ASICs, but an FPGA today will be the same more or less as an ASIC tomorrow (hasrate% wise) and to even things out currently only 6.500 shares are paid dividend whereas OgNasty holds 18.500 shares that don't get dividend, but as soon as the first ASIC is hashing away, future dividends will be paid on 25.000 shares....

Anyway currently people are paying 0.35 / 0.001482 = 236 weekly dividends for 1 share

All of a sudden 1, 2 even 3 BTC for an ASICMINER share does not seem so far fetched, but I can be mistaken....

I love to day-dream  Grin
vip
Activity: 198
Merit: 101
A bit worrying that two people with enough shares to be on the board want to sell their shares now.

I don't want to sell my shares now but if people are stupid enough to pay 1BTC/share I'll take it.
donator
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1000
A bit worrying that two people with enough shares to be on the board want to sell their shares now.

My thoughts exactly, except I wasn't sure if they were on the board. Are you sure?
The reason is because the shares are owned by Gamma Bitcoin Fund which is closing so I am going to have to liquidate the shares,
so I want to check what the market price off them are and if it's worth selling now or if I should wait until the asics arrive Smiley
It has nothing to do with any "insider info" In fact I am very positive towards this project and I lean towards keeping the shares Smiley
And yes I am on the board.
//DeaDTerra
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 501
There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.
A bit worrying that two people with enough shares to be on the board want to sell their shares now.

My thoughts exactly, except I wasn't sure if they were on the board. Are you sure?
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
A bit worrying that two people with enough shares to be on the board want to sell their shares now.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1083
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@niko Its not that i want to interfere with bitfountains business. I only would like to know whats happening, what the team did the previous day and how the progress is going. Or the failures that happens. A sentence a day wouldnt take much time but the shareholders would know more.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 501
There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.
@friedcat... could you maybe make a daily update? I mean it only needs to be a sentence. Maybe "First asic built and running.", "20% of all chips built into the asics plates." or "Prototype of mining software ready." Something like this. So that we know whats happening. Thanks!

Seconded. This is the most interesting part.
It may be interesting, but it wouldn't be very productive.  There is nothing you can do about whatever information you would be getting (unless you are a board member).

I'm speaking strictly from a historical perspective. Grin
That I agree with.
vip
Activity: 198
Merit: 101
@friedcat... could you maybe make a daily update? I mean it only needs to be a sentence. Maybe "First asic built and running.", "20% of all chips built into the asics plates." or "Prototype of mining software ready." Something like this. So that we know whats happening. Thanks!

Seconded. This is the most interesting part.
It may be interesting, but it wouldn't be very productive.  There is nothing you can do about whatever information you would be getting (unless you are a board member).

I'm speaking strictly from a historical perspective. Grin
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 501
There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.
@friedcat... could you maybe make a daily update? I mean it only needs to be a sentence. Maybe "First asic built and running.", "20% of all chips built into the asics plates." or "Prototype of mining software ready." Something like this. So that we know whats happening. Thanks!

Seconded. This is the most interesting part.
It may be interesting, but it wouldn't be very productive.  There is nothing you can do about whatever information you would be getting (unless you are a board member).
vip
Activity: 198
Merit: 101
@friedcat... could you maybe make a daily update? I mean it only needs to be a sentence. Maybe "First asic built and running.", "20% of all chips built into the asics plates." or "Prototype of mining software ready." Something like this. So that we know whats happening. Thanks!

Seconded. This is the most interesting part.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1083
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile
@friedcat... could you maybe make a daily update? I mean it only needs to be a sentence. Maybe "First asic built and running.", "20% of all chips built into the asics plates." or "Prototype of mining software ready." Something like this. So that we know whats happening. Thanks!
vip
Activity: 198
Merit: 101
Got my share confirmation email yesterday.

also might be interested in selling 5000 shares, pm me with your offers.
donator
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1000
I might be interested in selling 4607 Shares,
Please Pm with you offers Smiley
//DeaDTerra
full member
Activity: 177
Merit: 100
I agree "some of the revenues" is not clear, but it looks to be far from "most of the revenues"...
some and most are fuzzy terms. And the required money to fund new hardware development or other strategic operations mainly determines the difference between some and most. If ASICMINER is very profitable, "some" may be enough. Just saying...

you dont get it. that doesnt change anything. if you assume they are taking strategic decisions in the best interest of shareholders and bitfountain (which i hope is true), better allocation of profit only results in higher long-term share value.
No. You don't get it. The decision of how much of the above 0.1BTC/share profit will be used to fund future investments is not yours. It's the privilege of the bitfountain leadership. And if it is used for future investments, you're AGAIN exposed to NRE risks, which potentially lowers the value of your share longterm. Thus if you think that unpaid dividends automatically increase the value of the share, you're mistaken. And your condition "better allocation of profit" is a strong assumption, because that is something you usually only know in hindsight.

Anyway - I just wanted to throw in a word of caution. Please go ahead and invest as you please.

ok, maybe we both dont get it Smiley the mechanics you describe are right, but you draw the wrong conclusion. my point was just that "better allocation", reinvestment of profit etc does not necessarily lead to a lower share value.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
@Jutarul... isnt this risk relatively low? I mean the sell of the public shares put a good bunch of money into bitfountain. And i dont have the numbers in mind, i only remember that only a small portion of that money was used till now. So Bitfountain has a good monetary cushion for future investions. Thats because i wonder if the risk is high that much of the mined money will be reinvested instead are paid out as dividend.

If bitfountain starts mining (not only testing) would this graph jump 1/3 higher than normal (more/less)? http://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate

Wouldn't expect it to jump - more like gradually rise.  They won't build a ton of boards then put them all online at once.  Initially they'd get 1 going then add more as they were built and tested.  Can't imagine them getting into mass-production just yet - that'll come once all the wrinkes are ironed out in first batch.  WHich is, of course, a massive reason to do self-mining.  Selling first units to customers when they've no had any kind of soak-testing is asking for trouble - wonder what odds anyone would give on a high failure rate in the early batches of ASICs shipped by other companies.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
I agree "some of the revenues" is not clear, but it looks to be far from "most of the revenues"...
some and most are fuzzy terms. And the required money to fund new hardware development or other strategic operations mainly determines the difference between some and most. If ASICMINER is very profitable, "some" may be enough. Just saying...

I guess the difference between "some" and "most" depends on BFL delivering any time soon. Without BFL machines hashing we will be a much larger portion of the hashrate (even with Avalon and/or bASIC delivering) than after BFL has delivered on all their pre-orders and therefore have more profits to divide/keep within the business.

I also do agree with you that future investments come with a high risk as they might yield zero returns.

First things first: I want to see the hashrate rising as a result of ASICMINER mining  Grin
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1083
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile
@Jutarul... isnt this risk relatively low? I mean the sell of the public shares put a good bunch of money into bitfountain. And i dont have the numbers in mind, i only remember that only a small portion of that money was used till now. So Bitfountain has a good monetary cushion for future investions. Thats because i wonder if the risk is high that much of the mined money will be reinvested instead are paid out as dividend.

If bitfountain starts mining (not only testing) would this graph jump 1/3 higher than normal (more/less)? http://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate
donator
Activity: 994
Merit: 1000
I agree "some of the revenues" is not clear, but it looks to be far from "most of the revenues"...
some and most are fuzzy terms. And the required money to fund new hardware development or other strategic operations mainly determines the difference between some and most. If ASICMINER is very profitable, "some" may be enough. Just saying...

you dont get it. that doesnt change anything. if you assume they are taking strategic decisions in the best interest of shareholders and bitfountain (which i hope is true), better allocation of profit only results in higher long-term share value.
No. You don't get it. The decision of how much of the above 0.1BTC/share profit will be used to fund future investments is not yours. It's the privilege of the bitfountain leadership. And if it is used for future investments, you're AGAIN exposed to NRE risks, which potentially lowers the value of your share longterm. Thus if you think that unpaid dividends automatically increase the value of the share, you're mistaken. And your condition "better allocation of profit" is a strong assumption, because that is something you usually only know in hindsight.

Anyway - I just wanted to throw in a word of caution. Please go ahead and invest as you please.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1083
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile
I think 1 BTC /share is bit on a cheap side.

Oo Thats unexpected... i was sure that the shares, if there would be an exchange now, would be traded below 0.2btc.

Did anyone calculate the possible earnings and came to a similar result? I mean now we know that all chips are working and have the info that the hashrate looks like it should and so on. The number of public shares should be written in the thread too (i believe around 140,000) because it didnt change since glbse died. So did someone the math and came to a similar/different result?
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000

Business plan and Estimated Return The expected starting date of chips
manufacturing is late August to September, 2012. The chips are supposed to be
deployed and start hashing in October to November, 2012.

After the ASIC miner chips are produced and deployed, we will first directly
mine with them, then use part of the revenue to make user-friendlier mining
boards or rigs for sale.

If our chips are successfully produced, all the following businesses will
contribute to the shareholders' return:
  Self-Mining with First Batch of Chips At least 12TH/s in
total, that is equivalent to 30MH/s per share, or 300MH/s per BTC.
  Hashrate/Chip/Board Selling Net profits are
conservatively calculated as $5 per GH/s. That roughly equals to 0.5BTC per
GH/s with the current BTC/USD exchange rate. It means that each time we sell
1TH/s of hashing power in various forms, the net profit per share will be
1.25mBTC, that is, 1.25% of the initial investment.
  Self-Mining after Mass Production Unlimited hashrate in
theory because of the low margin cost. But in reality we have to consider the
cost of management (labor) and place (rent). We believe an expansion to 50TH/s
is not hard to achieve. That pushes the hashrate per share to 155MH/s, or
1.55G/s per BTC.
  Next-Generation Products The plan will be discussed among
board members and approved by shareholders, because it would require keeping
some of the revenues instead of paying them all as dividends.
The return of
this stage is difficult to estimate, since in the Bitcoin world everything may
happen and happens even quicklier than imagination. But we personally believe
that much more potential profits wait there.

It does not seem so fuzzy to me.... initially self mining profits will be distributed fully as dividends. Bitfounder will not take dividends until all ASICMINER investors have received 0.10 BTC as dividend, after that Bitfounder and ASICMINER will share all profits 50/50

Part of the profit will be used to push through new batches of chips until the 50TH has been reached.

Then we go on to Next-Gen development...

I agree "some of the revenues" is not clear, but it looks to be far from "most of the revenues", so I would expect en have always expected for them to pay 50% or more of the mining revenue as dividends and only start Next-generation products after the 50TH farm has been fully operational.

Unless of course something changed in the business plan that was not reflected on the forum.
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