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Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 1313. (Read 3917029 times)

hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 501
There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.
will you guys provide your AML information so to get the bitcoin and assets on GLBSE?

Sure, why not? I provide my information whenever I use my credit card. The only catch is, I expect GLBSE to provide privacy policy outlining how they collect, use, and safeguard my personal information.

Could there be any liability for purchasing unregulated securities? I couldn't imagine this but you never know these days....

I'm willing to take that risk. I haven't done anything wrong, and I am confident most courts would agree if it ever came to them deciding. Come on, with all the Second Life and whatnot, why would they care?  Even the whole AML story is bullshit because you cannot launder criminal proceeds using bitcoin. Anyone claiming you can have no idea about money laundering.  In fact, a good way to launder money is to have GLBSE shut down and database lost: then I can claim I bought this car not by selling crack but by trading assets there - but hey, the data has been lost, so you can't prove I didn't earn it by trading.
hero member
Activity: 900
Merit: 1014
advocate of a cryptographic attack on the globe
will you guys provide your AML information so to get the bitcoin and assets on GLBSE?

Sure, why not? I provide my information whenever I use my credit card. The only catch is, I expect GLBSE to provide privacy policy outlining how they collect, use, and safeguard my personal information.

Could there be any liability for purchasing unregulated securities? I couldn't imagine this but you never know these days....
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 501
There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.
will you guys provide your AML information so to get the bitcoin and assets on GLBSE?

Sure, why not? I provide my information whenever I use my credit card. The only catch is, I expect GLBSE to provide privacy policy outlining how they collect, use, and safeguard my personal information.
donator
Activity: 1120
Merit: 1001
will you guys provide your AML information so to get the bitcoin and assets on GLBSE?
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
Therefore, within reason, proving how many shares I've purchased.

On second thought, no, there is not sufficient/reasonable proof here.

1) My 'spreadsheet' where I documented purchases means nothing. Anyone can create a spreadsheet containing records 'matching' lines in the csv.

2) The fact that the file date of that spreadsheet pre-dates the GLBSE melt down means nothing. The time-stamp on a file can readily be altered.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
On October 3 I copied all my ASICMINER activity into a spreadsheet.

For three of my buys there is a unique hit, single entry, for qty@price against that csv.

Assuming that the second column is a timestamp, it should be trivial to match all my buys against entries in the csv. Therefore, within reason, proving how many shares I've purchased.

I've never sold any. But I don't see any way to prove that with the info available/exposed to date.

--

But I'm just lucky to have copied my info before GLBSE shut down. I expect the vast quantity of share holders do not have such specific data.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 501
There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.
This is the complete trading and dividend history for GLBSE since the initiation of 2.0.

Trading History
Dividend History


Splendid, is there a way to check for authenticity?

The history seems to exclude direct account transfers...

Check the thread I linked to for some updates. Apparently this was based on Twitter feed which did not include IPO sales and direct transfers.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1083
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile
Thats from the data from the websites right? I remember i downloaded all the pages of glbse some weeks ago too. Including all the graphs and so on. i can provide that data from 20120907-002940 utc+1.

Unfortunately you cant see the who traded with who. But at least you can see that trades happened. I backed it up with scrapbook. Let me know if that is of interest. But i think we should wait anyway until there IS a problem for sure.
donator
Activity: 994
Merit: 1000
This is the complete trading and dividend history for GLBSE since the initiation of 2.0.

Trading History
Dividend History


Splendid, is there a way to check for authenticity?

The history seems to exclude direct account transfers...
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 501
There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.
This is the complete trading and dividend history for GLBSE since the initiation of 2.0.

Trading History
Dividend History

hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 501
There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.
And if you dont have a csv file...
We cant log in anymore to download one....
Yes. Then you should at least submit your claimed amount and your user ID.
Anybody who does not have a csv file should keep that a secret. Otherwise people with CSV file could erase their corresponding entries, which complicates things.

I am not claiming that the procedure is perfect, but its better than nothing.
To make things more interesting, users without their csv files may be unable to provide exact amounts. You'll be getting some approximate (even if honest) numbers, so matching values in the three will have to be fuzzy, not exact. So will be the outco e of this whole thing, unless GLBSE cooperates.
donator
Activity: 994
Merit: 1000
And if you dont have a csv file...
We cant log in anymore to download one....
Yes. Then you should at least submit your claimed amount and your user ID.
Anybody who does not have a csv file should keep that a secret. Otherwise people with CSV file could erase their corresponding entries, which complicates things.

I am not claiming that the procedure is perfect, but its better than nothing.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
If you don't have a csv backup and timestamps for your asicminer transactions, naturally you're second in line.

How should this work? If someone has bought some A shares and later sold  some B and bought later some C shares again and would delete the line with (B) would the get how many shares? And i am not aware if there are/were GLBSE trade data avaiable on the net that could be used to fake CSV files. Or other than that, i someone  made his last backab after B. Given that B were smaller than C would it morally legit to delete the sell line to get at least A shares  instead the fewer A-B shares?

The result of such a puzzle would be that the data will be containing a lot of questionable data.
Yes. That's why you have to construct a tree. You assume that the ASICMINER csv file is accurate, then you have to traverse the tree down. Each transaction involves two parties, thus each sell has to correspond to a buy in another CSV file with the correct amount and timestamp. If a CSV record has been altered you should detect that by not being able to match the corresponding transaction with the remainder of the network. It's a hell of a job, but that's the most reliable thing you can do. If a certain branch clears without contradictions with the remainder of the tree, you have high confidence that the data is correct.

Let's only do that if GLBSE doesn't provide any means to resolve the claims. In the meantime, please make sure that you have a recent copy of your csv transaction file. Of course, there will be a lot of dispute for trades which were done a few days before GLBSE closed down. But if you have a sufficiently complete copy of the CSV file history you can work your way towards a reliable version of the shareholder database. May take a month though...

And if you dont have a csv file...

We cant log in anymore to download one....
donator
Activity: 994
Merit: 1000
If you don't have a csv backup and timestamps for your asicminer transactions, naturally you're second in line.

How should this work? If someone has bought some A shares and later sold  some B and bought later some C shares again and would delete the line with (B) would the get how many shares? And i am not aware if there are/were GLBSE trade data avaiable on the net that could be used to fake CSV files. Or other than that, i someone  made his last backab after B. Given that B were smaller than C would it morally legit to delete the sell line to get at least A shares  instead the fewer A-B shares?

The result of such a puzzle would be that the data will be containing a lot of questionable data.
Yes. That's why you have to construct a tree. You assume that the ASICMINER csv file is accurate, then you have to traverse the tree down. Each transaction involves two parties, thus each sell has to correspond to a buy in another CSV file with the correct amount and timestamp. If a CSV record has been altered you should detect that by not being able to match the corresponding transaction with the remainder of the network. It's a hell of a job, but that's the most reliable thing you can do. If a certain branch clears without contradictions with the remainder of the tree, you have high confidence that the data is correct.

Let's only do that if GLBSE doesn't provide any means to resolve the claims. In the meantime, please make sure that you have a recent copy of your csv transaction file. Of course, there will be a lot of dispute for trades which were done a few days before GLBSE closed down. But if you have a sufficiently complete copy of the CSV file history you can work your way towards a reliable version of the shareholder database. May take a month though...
legendary
Activity: 1270
Merit: 1000
In that case we should get all the csv backups from the shareholders and someone has to do a timestamp analysis of the involved transactions. This way you can reconstruct a tree and identify false claims.

If you don't have a csv backup and timestamps for your asicminer transactions, naturally you're second in line.

How should this work? If someone has bought some A shares and later sold  some B and bought later some C shares again and would delete the line with (B) would the get how many shares? And i am not aware if there are/were GLBSE trade data avaiable on the net that could be used to fake CSV files. Or other than that, i someone  made his last backab after B. Given that B were smaller than C would it morally legit to delete the sell line to get at least A shares  instead the fewer A-B shares?

The result of such a puzzle would be that the data will be containing a lot of questionable data.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 501
There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.
I second what matauc12 said above. You could have moved the remaining coins from glbse into your local client. If your computer got hacked and these coins stolen, then by your logic you should be held responsible for not keeping coins on glbse. It doesn't make sense. All we know is, the funds are currently held hostage due to unknown, possibly legal, issues in glbse, and due to interpersonal issues in their management. Let's wait for more information before discussing options.
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
How much BTC do you have in glbse still?
If glbse doesnt pay it would be a hurt for shareholders too. Because its money that is lost to the company. And that money has to be earned first again. I hope its not so very much.
The same goes for local loans. The interest and the loan itself would have to be earned first. But anyway... the outcome of this all probably cant be changed.
It's not very much. We already sold another batch of Bitcoins to fiat after our first release of financial report to increase our fiat reserve to deal with emergent situations.

But if at last, the money is indeed lost with the GLBSE default, it will be like this:

--When we have to borrow some money to fill the gap
1. We use the company identity to borrow money because it will be more feasible than personal loans.
2. However, the reliability of returning the money lies only on me the individual.
3. I pay them back using my earnings from my shares of Bitfountain and other sources.

--When we don't have to borrow any money
1. I mark myself of owing the company the same amount of Bitcoins
2. The board members decide an interest rate for my debt, then make the corresponding motion, if not passed, iterate.
3. I pay them back using my earnings from my shares of Bitfountain and other sources.

It's my management fault to keep the rest of the funds within GLBSE and trust it like trusting our company's bank account. The shareholders of ASICMINER should not take the consequences.
it is not because a corner store owner didn't install cameras that he should be held responsible for theft. As I see it, this is not a management failure. You used the tools at your disposition and it didn't turn out well. Every shareholder takes responsibility for success or failure, that's usually how it works. I think at least if it comes to that point a motion could be raised to gauge the shareholders feeling about who's accountable for the loses if it really comes to that point. I know its not conventional, but that's my opinion on the matter. But nonetheless, let's only talk about a problem once we know its a problem I guess.
donator
Activity: 994
Merit: 1000
Does that mean sell more shares? I mean there are still available public shares. Otherwise i wouldnt like the idea because it would devalue the value of the already sold shares because more people would have to get their part of the shares.
No. It means that if we will need emergent money, we would rather borrow RMB locally from banks or loaning companies and pay the them principals and interests on time, without giving up shares. When the chips are out, the risk become much lower and borrowing would be better than diluting shares.
If the chips are out and proven to work, Bitfountain can take preorders. That's the way to do it.

We are talking about the most extreme case already. In that case we either do nothing or do something imperfect. If with an insignificant probability that the number adds up without an insane result, it would be at least a better solution than doing nothing.
In that case we should get all the csv backups from the shareholders and someone has to do a timestamp analysis of the involved transactions. This way you can reconstruct a tree and identify false claims.

If you don't have a csv backup and timestamps for your asicminer transactions, naturally you're second in line.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
Friedcat, from the above conversation I understand that Nefario has not contacted ASICMINER (i.e. you) yet with how to proceed

Makes it all seems very dodgy as the GLBSE website says they are closing accounts and refunding BTC since late last night UK time

Obviously they should talk to asset issuers first !
We mailed the information listed on the requirements on the announce page when it was first displayed. Till now no information is received
from GLBSE. There are two possibilities:

1. They will release an automatic claiming system so they don't process mail requests.
2. They haven't started refunding yet.

Fingers crossed !
donator
Activity: 848
Merit: 1005
Friedcat, from the above conversation I understand that Nefario has not contacted ASICMINER (i.e. you) yet with how to proceed

Makes it all seems very dodgy as the GLBSE website says they are closing accounts and refunding BTC since late last night UK time

Obviously they should talk to asset issuers first !
We mailed the information listed on the requirements on the announce page when it was first displayed. Till now no information is received
from GLBSE. There are two possibilities:

1. They will release an automatic claiming system so they don't process mail requests.
2. They haven't started refunding yet.
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