Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 1325. (Read 3917468 times)

I'm sorry for replying late. As I promised, timely reply will resume from today. And I will reply to all unanswered PMs and mails.

+1

If you own 10% of shares, and you purchase company equipment, you will receive a 10% discount of the profits of the sale anyway from your ownership. No other discount is needed.

In fact, if you sell at a discount especially at the beginning, you will not be maximizing revenue for the company. This sort of policy will make much more sense when demand slackens and the marginal board cannot be sold immediately.

I believe discounts on purchasing mining gear for investors on the ASICs would be hugely unfair to those shareholders who are not interested in personally buying ASIC equipment. It would be like offering extra benefits for just a single group of investors at the expense of the rest.

However, if a shareholder purchases mining gear from the company, he will automatically get an indirect discount in the form of the dividends payed on the shares at a later date - part of which is profit from his own purchases. This will not favor any particular group of investors at the expense of another, and IMHO is a better approach.

And it also avoids all the complications of proving ownership, discounts proportional to the number of shares, etc., that have been distracting this thread for the last week or so...

I guess picking it up from the market price is better. Its going for a really low price on GLBSE now

It's unlikely that friedcat would put more shares on GLBSE for sale without issuing a motion.
It's more likely that one of the speculators is loosing patience. (After all ASICminer won't produce dividends until November). That would also explain why the price is not going below 0.1, because the speculator doesn't want to loose money on it.

Anyway - that's good news for anyone who wants to invest and hasn't done so yet, because that keeps the buying window open even longer...

friedcat: do you have any more pictures maybe? or something to show

Maybe only friedcat sold shares for everyone that bids at least 0.1BTC for a share? Or a shareholder sold his shares because he knows he can still get more shares for 0.1BTC from friedcat? But i tip on friedcat because selling the shares for exactly 0.1BTC wouldnt make sense for a shareholder.

Anyway... i sent a pm to you, friedcat, on thursday but didnt get an answer while i see you online all the time.

Thanks!
Sebastian

ASICMINER is getting dumped hard.
I guess someone had a bad flashback from 2011 Asic miner scam from China and freaked out.
...and bots are following.

Well I am also adding shares and would certainly like a shot at buying the hardware in a priority position since we have invested in the company to begin with.

Hopefully this will happen and I think the concept should also have to do with holding the shares for a period of time before and after you buy hardware to help reduce speculation and sell-offs.

Its like .5% or something.  If the bigger shareholders end up locking their shares anyway, it would make things easier for multiple reasons. Just more paperwork.

Maybe come up with a scheme where X shares give you right to X % discount on an X amount of devices

Else anyone could just buy 1 share and be eligible for the same discount as a holder of 1000 shares

You can transfer your shares to Friedcat to prove you have the shares at the moment of ordering, then Friedcat will transfer them back

The transfer fees will be the price you have to pay to get the discount (I do not know what the transfer fees are, so this  might be completely un-economical)

+1

I was going to ask about this as well.. I am currently a shareholder (small holding but slowly growing), but I think it would be awesome for shareholders to have priority when it comes time to start selling hardware. How this would best be accomplished I haven't come up with any good ideas yet, but please try to keep us informed as to what direction you would like to take.

Please make sure this is not only available for large account holders / board members only. Perhaps once we figure out an appropriate way to prove our ownership of shares, maybe stating a minimum number of shares or investment required to qualify for priority orders would be a good idea. If announced far enough ahead of time smaller stake investors like myself can increase our holdings over time up to the level required. This should also encourage some more interest in the stocks and likely increase the price prior to having hardware ready for sale.

Just spouting thoughts out loud here now.. back to work

Yes - ASICminer will have to solve the allocation problem.
While FIFO (first come, first serve) is usually the simplest it may not be the  best strategy (BFL has similar issues and they employ some lottery scheme).

I suggested a dedicated GLBSE account for that purpose a while ago. Each share would reserve a certain allocation for a particular series of chips. Then you have a market for ASIC hardware orders. ASICminer could provide an initial incentive to count the IPO price of the order towards the final hardware price. The only problem with that scheme is that you get speculators, which just buy these orders in order to sell them at a higher price. And these speculators may not be interested in buying the actual hardware, which may delay the selling and inflate the price of the hardware. To counter that, the shares would have to be issued at a significant fraction of the final price, e.g. 50%. Then the speculators have a significant stake and need to get their investment back ASAP. Also another issue is AFAIK that GLBSE charges transfer fees proportional to the traded asset. This would cut into the profit from sales.

In the end, ASICminer has to find a way of filling the orders with either an optimal strategy to make profit, and/or one which has the least damaging effect on reputation and sales.

I believe share transfers have fees.

I suggested that as well, although verifying ownership would be difficult as Nefario doesn't release holdings info.

yes. Because the profit margin for selling the chips is considerable. That's why other players try so hard to produce chips as well.

Its possible, but I doubt it.  The self mining and sale of hardware as an ongoing concern is where the real money is at.

dividends/profits are paid to ASICminer (200k shares max). There may be some motions to "re-invest" the profit into a sustained business. The exact ratio is yet to be determined and mainly depends on shareholders.

Ok. That might be of interest to a few people, so I'll do some math. (my focus is on the second series of chips which get sold to the public, ignoring self-mining and sustained business/profit). If you feel that some numbers are off, let me know.

It's pretty safe to say that each ASIC chip which is produced and meets a minimum specs will be sold - just because the market is at a vacuum. While ASICminer still hasn't determined the price level, its competitors have:
BFL, 40 GH/s , $1300 (http://www.butterflylabs.com/order-form-bitforce-sc-single/)
bASIC, 27 Gh/s, $1070 (http://www.btcfpga.com/index.php?route=product/product&manufacturer_id=11&product_id=58)

I expect ASICminer to outperform any competitor, both on specs and price point. But the price won't be much lower than any competitor - that wouldn't make sense from a profit point of view. Given that, ASICminer could probably sell 50GH/s at $1000.

The production schedule is not out (yet) but let's assume ASICminer can produce 50 TH/s worth of chips in the second series. This corresponds to a total sales price of $1,000,000, which should be 50-80% profit (considering the overhead costs). So you're looking at a company valuation of $500k-$800k for the second series alone! Right now ASICminer is traded for about $240k. So the ROI on that second series is more than 100% if you buy now.