Topic: Atheism does not exist - page 11. (Read 11728 times)
Who created this i have something for you: PLZ RKO yourself!!!!
The point of this thread was proof through mathematics and logic that god exists.
If nothing is nothing, everything is everything, everything exists.
This is a completely valid and true statement.
If nothing is nothing, everything is everything, everything exists.
This is a completely valid and true statement.
*uhm*
Don't know how to break this to ya... but I'm afraid it's back to math school for you.
PS.
If you have 0 Dollars in your wallet, you have nothing there. If everything is everything and everything exists, you'd have an infinite amount of Dollars in your wallet.
=> pseudo-argumentation and flawed & twisted derived logic, I won't recommend anything for you there as it should be obvious. You already described your issues in the original post.
The point of this thread was proof through mathematics and logic that god exists.
If nothing is nothing, everything is everything, everything exists.
If nothing is nothing, everything is everything, everything exists.
But you said Atheism doesn't exist in your title. Lol. Maybe time to close this thread.
The point of this thread was proof through mathematics and logic that god exists.
If nothing is nothing, everything is everything, everything exists.
This is a completely valid and true statement. Add to the fact that we live in an infinite universe, there are infinite dimensions and you are constantly changing dimensions as you read this. It is statistically 100% improbable that god does not exist, that an elephant does not exist in your room and that we aren't having this exact same conversation somewhere else at this very moment. It is up to you to tune yourself to that reality and make it exist in your perception.
Also consider widening your concept of god. Think simpler in terms of ego being negative and god being positive. God means all, god means the universe. You are a part of everything, you are a part of the universe, you are god.
If nothing is nothing, everything is everything, everything exists.
This is a completely valid and true statement. Add to the fact that we live in an infinite universe, there are infinite dimensions and you are constantly changing dimensions as you read this. It is statistically 100% improbable that god does not exist, that an elephant does not exist in your room and that we aren't having this exact same conversation somewhere else at this very moment. It is up to you to tune yourself to that reality and make it exist in your perception.
Also consider widening your concept of god. Think simpler in terms of ego being negative and god being positive. God means all, god means the universe. You are a part of everything, you are a part of the universe, you are god.
The idea behind atheism is the non existence of god. This logic is inherently flawed as itself is a negative. Non existence does not exist. To say non existence exists is a fallacy. It is like a riddle.
Likewise, nothing is nothing. You cannot be nothing, nor can you become something from nothing, nor can you become nothing from something. Existence is eternal.
You may conceptualize nothingness, perhaps as darkness or void, but you cannot perceive nothing, for nothing does not exist.
Try not to get hung up on the title, you may perceive atheism to exist, though the basis of atheism itself does not exist.
Former atheist that used to believe in nothing.
Likewise, nothing is nothing. You cannot be nothing, nor can you become something from nothing, nor can you become nothing from something. Existence is eternal.
You may conceptualize nothingness, perhaps as darkness or void, but you cannot perceive nothing, for nothing does not exist.
Try not to get hung up on the title, you may perceive atheism to exist, though the basis of atheism itself does not exist.
Former atheist that used to believe in nothing.
The idea of atheism is more like :
Believers, believe whatever you want. But remember and adhere to the 11th commandment : Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself!
I know it's a hard to grasp concept for believers, but some people rather base their lifes and decisions upon knowledge or probabilities where sufficient knowledge is unavailable (yet).
And just like believers are better off not trying to "convert" other people, "non-believers" are usually better off not trying to point out all the nonsense in biblical/religious details.
(was forced to do that only once, due to certain "believers" ringing at my door on an unsuspecting Saturday every freaking year for a full decade - at a far-less-than-convinient time in the morning... Within 2 Minutes of talking, I dismantled and blew up the entire foundation of their believes and that entire construct went down within seconds like WTC7. I don't normally do that - but those ladies worked really hard for it and as a result, actually never returned)
Both worlds will have to co-exist on the planet for a long time to come.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RT6rL2UroE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGASvVqzOa0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE8ooMBIyC8
(Caution : religious persons might find these videos highly offending and/or disturbing - for all others it's potentially top quality entertainment
)
Judging by the responses that seems to have totally ignored the definitions I put forward.... people are still under the impression it is binary what you believe in. You either believe their is, or their is not.
What about those that are just not convinced but if science could prove some prime mover (god, aliens, a large ball of spag etc) caused the universe then they would out of natural curiosity want to investigate it and may adopt that approach? What about the apathists (yes I coined that word), the group of people that just don't give a fuck?
It is not binary. Atheist is just not convinced, the onus if on anybody else with any idea to convince them of that idea. Brand us what you like, just don't try to debate with us any "logic" at the same time. The OP here has failed at the very title of this thread. Had he have said 'Anti-theist' instead of 'Atheist' it may have had some sort of meaning.... to somebody that also had limited oxygen in the womb.
All it really says is 'A person that is not convinced does not exist' ... errr ... wtf?
What about those that are just not convinced but if science could prove some prime mover (god, aliens, a large ball of spag etc) caused the universe then they would out of natural curiosity want to investigate it and may adopt that approach? What about the apathists (yes I coined that word), the group of people that just don't give a fuck?
It is not binary. Atheist is just not convinced, the onus if on anybody else with any idea to convince them of that idea. Brand us what you like, just don't try to debate with us any "logic" at the same time. The OP here has failed at the very title of this thread. Had he have said 'Anti-theist' instead of 'Atheist' it may have had some sort of meaning.... to somebody that also had limited oxygen in the womb.
All it really says is 'A person that is not convinced does not exist' ... errr ... wtf?
You seriously have no idea what atheism or even religion even means. Stop talking like a child.
The idea behind atheism is the non existence of god.
You're right about that.
Quote
This logic is inherently flawed as itself is a negative.
The syntax of that (English?) sentence is flawed. However, the flaws go beyond cleaning up your English. The belief that there is no god is just a belief. It's not a "negative". Yes, there is a syntactic negation in the sentential statement of that belief. But even old Aristotle seems to have a better idea than you about how opposition relations (which *do* exist!) feed into natural language statements with negation (cf _The Categories_).
Its self. My bad.
I don't see how that helps it? So the sentence is now: "This logic is inherently flawed as its self is a negative." ?
This logic is inherently flawed as its self [non existence] is a negative.
How does that not make sense?
It does not make sense because a negation does not entail a contradiction. Your statement reads as if all "negatives" are flawed. I believe there are no elephants in my bedroom. This is a "negative" (your term), yet I find no contradiction in the statement and I observe no elephants in my bedroom.
Quote
Non existence does not exist. To say non existence exists is a fallacy. It is like a riddle.
Uh, it's hard to figure out what you mean by that? ^^^. Non-existance is a quality. It's the quality of not existing. Obviously (by definition!) you won't find that quality inhering any extant objects, but geez, is it really throwing you for this hard of a loop?
"Nothing is nothing, unless it is something" If non existence, or nothing, is a quality, then it is something, so it must exist as a conceptualization. How can nothing be something if it is nothing?
You are mixing logical levels. See the use/mention distinction. There is the concept of a dog. I label it with a term "dog". This does not mean that the properties of the dog inhere in the term "dog". The concept of nothing certainly exists and we can label it. This does not equivalent to locating an instance of nothingness in the real world. I feel like your logic would lead you do deny the existence of the color blue because the word "blue" has no color.
I've said this many times, you may conceptualize non existence. You cannot experience non existence as if non existence existed there would be no way to experience it.
How can non existence truly exist? It's a blatant fallacy.
You are playing a puerile word game. Word riddles are cute but don't equate to sound reasoning. Surely you admit the non-existance of any number of nonsense scenarios I can put forward. Do you really believe that everything you imagine is 'real'?
Wait a minute. Conceptualizing nothingness is not the same thing as conceptualizing that I am nothing. Who threw me into the nothingness? Again, you confuse logical levels. Here we have a person conceptualizing and we have the concept they envision. Conflating the two things leads to confusion. If this conflation feels mystical or gives you a religious feeling, that's fine. But it's not the same as a logical assertion. You shouldn't expect others to follow you.
If you are conceptualizing that you are nothing, you are clearly something, which is in the act of conceptualizing nothing. It doesn't make you nothing.
Stop it! I am not conceptualizing that I am nothing. Its another one of your misdirections.
Who said it does? I beleive that the old dinosaur energy was converted into non-dinosaur energy in the form of organic material on the Earth. If you can allow me to believe in the non-dinosaurness of the present reality, why can't you entertain that someone believes that there is no God in the present reality?
Think about this, what are thoughts? Do you think perhaps they may be other dimensions us multidimensional beings are able to connect to? Just like when you dream, we connect to other realities, other dimensions. Though humans have not evolved to fully connect to these other dimensions, yet.
Everything exists right where you are, there are infinite dimensions/frequencies to tune your mind to, we just need to learn how to do it.
So you used to be an atheist until you got yourself all confused with some pseudo-metaphysical sophistry? I think you need a philosophy 101 course, dude.
No. I used to be an atheist until I experienced a great depression, looked within for answers, came out of that depression and experienced egodeath confirming the existence of god.
Egodeath is when your soul, consciousness, completely separates from the physical plane of the universe. The fourth dimension is composed of specific and filtered light spectrums to create your reality of space and time, in other words, you see colors which create the illusion of division. As we have learned, when you combine all these frequencies, colors, together, you get white light. When you are separated from your sense of self, or reality, your consciousness inputs all frequencies of the universe.
This results in your vision turning to completely white energy of the highest form, consciousness, love, god. Ego death brings the feeling of infinite love, it is a greater feeling than 1000 times the happiest point of your life, at a minimum. It is what you experience upon death.
This kid's had multiple near death experiences and he describes the same infinite peace and white light of united consciousness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4LSEXsvRAI
Quote
“While I was still unconscious, I was in this white room; no walls, it just went on and on. There was no sound, but that same peaceful feeling I had when I was four. I was wearing a really nice suit, and so was my favorite rapper, Kid Cudi. I then looked at myself in the mirror—I was proud of myself, of my entire life, everything I have done. It was the best feeling. I didn’t want to leave that place. I wish I never woke up.”
Quote
"Right then, my favorite song of his came on, Mr. Rager. The part where it said, 'when will the fantasy end, when will the heaven begin?' And he said, 'Go now.'"
Another testimony:
Quote
Following a simple medical procedure for pancreatitis in 2009, Crystal McVea of Oklahoma went into full respiratory arrest on the operating table. When that happened, she says she experienced a trip to heaven that renewed her faith in God, whom she met in person. She described him as “an immense brightness,” one that she could “feel, taste, touch, hear, and smell,” and recalled having 500 senses while in heaven, as opposed to the traditional human five.
Great, if your religion is helping you, I'm not against that. I think your only mistake is suggesting that these mystical feeling you get from these poems you're writing equates with a logical necessity. Thoughts are thoughts, people think them. That some people think that there is no God is simply a belief that some people have. Perhaps just as unjustifiably as your belief that thinking about the concept of nothing leads to contradictions (it doesn't!).
Likewise, if your religion, atheism, is helping you, go for it. But I don't see very much peace to gain, from experience, with the fallacious belief system that we grow up and die into nothing. I've contemplated this long and hard as a young kid and the reason it scared me so much is because I couldn't comprehend non existence. Little did I know, it's because non existence does not exist.
What poems are you speaking of? I quite literally left my body and the physical realm of reality to see a completely infinite white light of love. If that doesn't prove something, then idk man, you'll just have to wait till you die to see for yourself.
Don't worry about me and my religion (skepticism). I'm surprised you think your mystical reports would prove something to me. I only accept 'proof' in a very small set of circumstances (basically closed world systems). Your mystical poems are cute, but they aren't logic. If you admit that, I'll leave you alone.
The idea behind atheism is the non existence of god. This logic is inherently flawed as itself is a negative. Non existence does not exist. To say non existence exists is a fallacy. It is like a riddle.
Likewise, nothing is nothing. You cannot be nothing, nor can you become something from nothing, nor can you become nothing from something. Existence is eternal.
You may conceptualize nothingness, perhaps as darkness or void, but you cannot perceive nothing, for nothing does not exist.
Try not to get hung up on the title, you may perceive atheism to exist, though the basis of atheism itself does not exist.
Former atheist that used to believe in nothing.
Likewise, nothing is nothing. You cannot be nothing, nor can you become something from nothing, nor can you become nothing from something. Existence is eternal.
You may conceptualize nothingness, perhaps as darkness or void, but you cannot perceive nothing, for nothing does not exist.
Try not to get hung up on the title, you may perceive atheism to exist, though the basis of atheism itself does not exist.
Former atheist that used to believe in nothing.
Non-belief in the existence of the supernatural != belief in the non-existence of the supernatural.
The idea behind atheism is the non existence of god.
You're right about that.
Quote
This logic is inherently flawed as itself is a negative.
The syntax of that (English?) sentence is flawed. However, the flaws go beyond cleaning up your English. The belief that there is no god is just a belief. It's not a "negative". Yes, there is a syntactic negation in the sentential statement of that belief. But even old Aristotle seems to have a better idea than you about how opposition relations (which *do* exist!) feed into natural language statements with negation (cf _The Categories_).
Its self. My bad.
I don't see how that helps it? So the sentence is now: "This logic is inherently flawed as its self is a negative." ?
This logic is inherently flawed as its self [non existence] is a negative.
How does that not make sense?
Quote
Non existence does not exist. To say non existence exists is a fallacy. It is like a riddle.
Uh, it's hard to figure out what you mean by that? ^^^. Non-existance is a quality. It's the quality of not existing. Obviously (by definition!) you won't find that quality inhering any extant objects, but geez, is it really throwing you for this hard of a loop?
"Nothing is nothing, unless it is something" If non existence, or nothing, is a quality, then it is something, so it must exist as a conceptualization. How can nothing be something if it is nothing?
You are mixing logical levels. See the use/mention distinction. There is the concept of a dog. I label it with a term "dog". This does not mean that the properties of the dog inhere in the term "dog". The concept of nothing certainly exists and we can label it. This does not equivalent to locating an instance of nothingness in the real world. I feel like your logic would lead you do deny the existence of the color blue because the word "blue" has no color.
I've said this many times, you may conceptualize non existence. You cannot experience non existence as if non existence existed there would be no way to experience it.
How can non existence truly exist? It's a blatant fallacy.
Wait a minute. Conceptualizing nothingness is not the same thing as conceptualizing that I am nothing. Who threw me into the nothingness? Again, you confuse logical levels. Here we have a person conceptualizing and we have the concept they envision. Conflating the two things leads to confusion. If this conflation feels mystical or gives you a religious feeling, that's fine. But it's not the same as a logical assertion. You shouldn't expect others to follow you.
If you are conceptualizing that you are nothing, you are clearly something, which is in the act of conceptualizing nothing. It doesn't make you nothing.
Who said it does? I beleive that the old dinosaur energy was converted into non-dinosaur energy in the form of organic material on the Earth. If you can allow me to believe in the non-dinosaurness of the present reality, why can't you entertain that someone believes that there is no God in the present reality?
Think about this, what are thoughts? Do you think perhaps they may be other dimensions us multidimensional beings are able to connect to? Just like when you dream, we connect to other realities, other dimensions. Though humans have not evolved to fully connect to these other dimensions, yet.
Everything exists right where you are, there are infinite dimensions/frequencies to tune your mind to, we just need to learn how to do it.
So you used to be an atheist until you got yourself all confused with some pseudo-metaphysical sophistry? I think you need a philosophy 101 course, dude.
No. I used to be an atheist until I experienced a great depression, looked within for answers, came out of that depression and experienced egodeath confirming the existence of god.
Egodeath is when your soul, consciousness, completely separates from the physical plane of the universe. The fourth dimension is composed of specific and filtered light spectrums to create your reality of space and time, in other words, you see colors which create the illusion of division. As we have learned, when you combine all these frequencies, colors, together, you get white light. When you are separated from your sense of self, or reality, your consciousness inputs all frequencies of the universe.
This results in your vision turning to completely white energy of the highest form, consciousness, love, god. Ego death brings the feeling of infinite love, it is a greater feeling than 1000 times the happiest point of your life, at a minimum. It is what you experience upon death.
This kid's had multiple near death experiences and he describes the same infinite peace and white light of united consciousness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4LSEXsvRAI
Quote
“While I was still unconscious, I was in this white room; no walls, it just went on and on. There was no sound, but that same peaceful feeling I had when I was four. I was wearing a really nice suit, and so was my favorite rapper, Kid Cudi. I then looked at myself in the mirror—I was proud of myself, of my entire life, everything I have done. It was the best feeling. I didn’t want to leave that place. I wish I never woke up.”
Quote
"Right then, my favorite song of his came on, Mr. Rager. The part where it said, 'when will the fantasy end, when will the heaven begin?' And he said, 'Go now.'"
Another testimony:
Quote
Following a simple medical procedure for pancreatitis in 2009, Crystal McVea of Oklahoma went into full respiratory arrest on the operating table. When that happened, she says she experienced a trip to heaven that renewed her faith in God, whom she met in person. She described him as “an immense brightness,” one that she could “feel, taste, touch, hear, and smell,” and recalled having 500 senses while in heaven, as opposed to the traditional human five.
Great, if your religion is helping you, I'm not against that. I think your only mistake is suggesting that these mystical feeling you get from these poems you're writing equates with a logical necessity. Thoughts are thoughts, people think them. That some people think that there is no God is simply a belief that some people have. Perhaps just as unjustifiably as your belief that thinking about the concept of nothing leads to contradictions (it doesn't!).
Likewise, if your religion, atheism, is helping you, go for it. But I don't see very much peace to gain, from experience, with the fallacious belief system that we grow up and die into nothing. I've contemplated this long and hard as a young kid and the reason it scared me so much is because I couldn't comprehend non existence. Little did I know, it's because non existence does not exist.
What poems are you speaking of? I quite literally left my body and the physical realm of reality to see a completely infinite white light of love. If that doesn't prove something, then idk man, you'll just have to wait till you die to see for yourself.
