Topic: Athiest are the ultimate free thinker? - page 3. (Read 20690 times)

No to the green rabbits / God outside or beyond space and time.

However you might note, it makes no practical difference whatsoever.

I agree, science cannot and will not address the situation prior because whatever existed prior to the universe must have existed outside of space and time.

Theists believe that God exists beyond space and time, while atheists believe something undefined exists beyond space and time.

String Theory Explained – What is The True Nature of Reality?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Da-2h2B4faU

 

At this time, dimensions are defined. Time is defined. Therefore, we exist and can discuss these things. Science cannot and will not address the situation prior.

I don't care if religious people want to speculate about it, but the scientific view would be that no discussion was possible about a universe totally undefined, without time or dimensions.

It's possible to be in conflict with science. For example, suppose a person claimed that green rabbits ruled the Universe before the beginning of time. The scientist would reply, no, that's contrary to Undefined. That's impossible. The green rabbits could only exist after the beginning of time and space.

Keep in mind that historical concepts of infinite, finite, forever, eternal and so forth, should not be expected to be as precise as modern words. That's okay, really. They did a pretty darn good job with what they had.

atheism is like ultimate scanning of the world.

theism has advantages as you can more creatively interact with the world.

you can observe that on the jews, living in the united states and their high incomes.

if there is also humanis atheism, you get even huge trouble working with people, because of crazy perfectionism

regards

People make inventions, not corporations.     

Who knows? Let me know when we find signatures in DNA coded thusly, "Product of IDTheory Corp., Alpha Centauri."

I did.

All theories are inventions. What matters is whether the theory is an accurate reflection of reality. I am trying to understand how the BB theory is superior to the intelligent design theory.

Big bang theory is just an invention, you should read it's origins.

So there was not nothing after all. There was something called undefined.

Is this something eternal? Is it always in existence, has no point of origin?

This is not what the "Big Bang theory" asserts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_the_universe#Planck_epoch

Rather it considers there to be a transition from such things being "undefined" to their being "defined as energy, mass, etc."

"Undefined" is not "no energy, no mass." It is different than say the quantity 0. "Time" does not exist either, so there is no "before" and no "after."

Science does not have questions to ask of "undefined." As an example, take the case where the universe has shrunk to a single point, a singularity, and ask, "How big is that point?"

That is nonsense, of course. Science would ignore that issue (although as I have noted the words used in your question formulate a cause and effect scenario that has no meaning when "undefined" is taken into account. Thus, science may influence religious thought by improving phraseology, but excepting that it will not address the question you pose of "original causation."

In the beginning there was no energy, no mass, no matter etc. Where did all this energy come from?

That's from classical physics. You must account today for general relativity and quantum physics, resulting a the e=mc^2 equation and hold that the sum of mass and energy are thus related and bound in a closed system.

I haven't read the talmud, as far as I'm concerned there's diabolic stuff in there, other gods other than the God of the Bible, I wouldn't bother reading something like that. Did you read the verses I pointed out to you? This will prove Christianity was more than a new doctrine. It proves the Bible is more than just a book because it predicts events in the future that happen exactly as described. It describes events that were out of the hands of Jesus himself to fulfill in case you are believing the books of the new testament are just inventions. This is prophesied in the books of the Jews (Torah) even though most of them don't consider Jesus as the Messiah.

"The law of conservation of matter or principle of matter conservation states that the mass of an object or collection of objects never changes over time, no matter how the constituent parts rearrange themselves.

The mass can neither be created nor destroyed."

TBH, I think most atheists are probably more agnostic than atheist.

Atheism is a firm belief that no god exists (it's almost a belief in itself), where-as agnostic is sort of undecided/uncaring/not knowing. I feel like most people get those confused.

I've yet to sit down and actually study the Bible or any other religious text of antiquity.  It's on my list of things to do, but it's a fairly big undertaking...and I don't read to good.

I will say that people do pull some jaw-dropping things out of both the Bible and the Talmud on regular basis.  I enjoy these things a lot.  The reason the Babylonian Talmud stuff interests me is because it is clearly a driving force in my country (the U.S.) at the moment.  We will probably have Kushner as president fairly soon, and that husband/wife team are Chabad-Lubavitch who take the most objectionable things out of the Talmud and run with them.  Run hard.  The unabashed ethnic supremacy of these folks is staggering and as a goy I'm not real comfortable being under their thumb.  Did you know that all of us goyim who ever lived are not even as valuable as the fingernail of any Jew?   The last Lubavitcher Rebbe, who's grave Jared and Ivanka went to pray for the Donald to win POTUS at, said as much.

Rabbinical Jews will say that it is impossible to read the Talmud as a non-believing Goyim and one needs a lifetime of study to understand it.  Bullshit!  The stuff is as clear as a bell (if it is not invented of whole cloth by anti-semites) and it is also clear why Jesus stood up against them and why some of the Jews hold a grudge against the guy to this day.

There are a lot of itemized excuses for this and that in the Babylonian Talmud.  Trouble is, the concepts outlined in the Talmud explain the behavior of the zionists toward Palestinians (and every other group of goyim for that matter) that we see every day to a tee.  The proof is in the pudding so to speak.

Turns out that being distinctly NOT an ethic supremacist is a good way to gain a world-wide following which is what happened with Christ and Christianity by the looks of things.  Who would have thunk it?  Only some real idiot goyim will follow these ethnic supremacists with their '7 Noahide laws' and the rest of their bullshit.  That's the evangelical flock these days.  Not the mega-church pastors of course.  They are obviously on the dole and are very likely hard-core Lucifarians anyway.

I mean what I said, no big deal. It's not really the thing you came to discuss, although it's not exactly a detour.

For example, the Big Bang was not a gigantic version of a black hole, rather all space simultaneously shrinking to a singularity. Whether that was infinite space or finite, but that's a side issue. The reason is that at the moment the universe shrunk to a singularity, measurements could not exist. Terms like length and width did not exist and could not. Therefore, I summarized in the prior post "pretty much nothing." There's also an issue of time.

So you see? It was "pretty much nothing."



Certainly a religious person could attribute that to the creation of everything from nothing. Science does not ATTRIBUTE causation, it's unnecessary. Also there is zero ability to prove such causation, if you think about it.

But as I previously noted, religion is about belief/faith, not facts and evidence. This is laid out explicitly in your bible. That is why I criticized the searching and posting of miracles and made note of how many times they are simply scams.

Matter is created and destroyed all of the time. A highly energetic photon can create a matter/antimatter pair. Likewise a matter/antimatter pair can annihilate each other to create a photon. Furthermore, a proton can be converted into a neutron by emitting a positron and a neutrino via the weak force. The positron is then usually annihilated quickly by encountering a electron. This creates a gamma ray photon. The latter process that I explained is what is keeping the sun going.. In the end, the mass of a alpha particle (which is basically the nucleus of a helium 4 atom) is actually less than the four protons that were fused to create it and the two electrons annihilated. The mass is converted into the energy of the two gamma photons created when two of the protons were converted to the neutrons.


Edit:It appears the proton-proton chain is a little more complicated than I inferred. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton%E2%80%93proton_chain_reaction  However, in the end, you do get matter/antimatter being created and destroyed and mass being converted into energy.

We can debate both the Bible or science, I'm just saying matter cant be created or destroyed that's all that;s a law of physics. What do you mean I didn't know the subject?