Athiest are the ultimate free thinker? - page 6.

af_newbie

legendary

Activity: 2702

Merit: 1468

Quote from: TECSHARE on January 05, 2019, 12:04:57 PM

There is an inherent flaw in atheism that most people don't seem to realize. Personally I have more respect for Agnostics. At least they admit that they don't know. Atheism is just yet another iteration of a religion. Atheism is the BELIEF that there is no God. There is no proof of the existence or nonexistence of a deity. People choose to believe one over the other, but it is just yet another system of beliefs.

Atheists exhibit a lot of the same patterns found in other religions. They thing their beliefs are the best and everyone else is wrong. They proselytize. They fund-raise. They gather in groups to discuss and spread their beliefs. Their priests are "scientists", and their God is the government.

Atheism is a lack of belief that there is a God.

It is not the same as a belief that there is no God.

Apple and oranges.

PS. Most atheists are not making claims. Although, some, myself included, are convinced that there is no God due to the lack of any physical evidence.

ATMD

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 12

Quote from: TECSHARE on January 05, 2019, 12:04:57 PM

There is an inherent flaw in atheism that most people don't seem to realize. Personally I have more respect for Agnostics. At least they admit that they don't know. Atheism is just yet another iteration of a religion. Atheism is the BELIEF that there is no God. There is no proof of the existence or nonexistence of a deity. People choose to believe one over the other, but it is just yet another system of beliefs.

Atheists exhibit a lot of the same patterns found in other religions. They thing their beliefs are the best and everyone else is wrong. They proselytize. They fund-raise. They gather in groups to discuss and spread their beliefs. Their priests are "scientists", and their God is the government.

Yes but please don't say that to Astargath Grin

TECSHARE

legendary

Activity: 3318

Merit: 2008

First Exclusion Ever

There is an inherent flaw in atheism that most people don't seem to realize. Personally I have more respect for Agnostics. At least they admit that they don't know. Atheism is just yet another iteration of a religion. Atheism is the BELIEF that there is no God. There is no proof of the existence or nonexistence of a deity. People choose to believe one over the other, but it is just yet another system of beliefs.

Atheists exhibit a lot of the same patterns found in other religions. They think their beliefs are the best and everyone else is wrong. They proselytize. They fund-raise. They gather in groups to discuss and spread their beliefs. Their priests are "scientists", and their God is the government.

ATMD

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 12

Quote from: af_newbie on January 05, 2019, 11:02:53 AM

So you failed to convince me that your God exists.

I am stating what I believe.

Quote from: af_newbie on January 05, 2019, 11:02:53 AM

Have you noticed that he only reveals himself to deluded people?

On the contrary, John Lennox, who I admire as a great modern thinker of our time, does not seem the least bit deluded to me

BADecker

legendary

Activity: 3906

Merit: 1373

Quote from: af_newbie on January 05, 2019, 11:02:53 AM

Quote from: ATMD on January 05, 2019, 10:54:05 AM

Quote from: af_newbie on January 05, 2019, 09:17:51 AM

Ask your God for pin numbers of my ATM cards and post it here.

or a youtube video with you and your God chatting about how he created the universe.

or ask God to join our conversation in this thread.

I don't have power over God to be giving Him orders, God is not my slave.

It is ultimately God's choice to decide whether to reveal Himself to anyone, not my choice.

So you failed to convince me that your God exists.

Have you noticed that he only reveals himself to deluded people?

So, you have failed to recognize the fact that you are setting yourself up as god by suggesting that He doesn't exist, in the face of all the logic that shows that He DOES exist.

Actually, this is tremendously free thinking. It's like freely walking the plank without being forced. Not many people are willfully strong enough to do this (except from the diving board plank). So, atheists are very free thinkers to be so willful.

If the atheist wants to be the ultimate free thinker, he will turn from his atheistic ways, and freely use the logic around him to see that God exists. I mean, who is stronger? The guy who fights and wins? Or the guy who is strong enough to fight and win, but uses his strength to willingly step into slavery, instead?

In this case, it is the slavery of becoming a slave to Christ. Were you a slave to the silliness of not recognizing God? Saint Paul says, 1 Corinthians 7:21,22:

Quote

21Were you a slave when you were called? Don’t let it trouble you—although if you can gain your freedom, do so. 22For the one who was a slave when called to faith in the Lord is the Lord’s freed person; similarly, the one who was free when called is Christ’s slave.

Turn while you have time.

Cool

af_newbie

legendary

Activity: 2702

Merit: 1468

Quote from: ATMD on January 05, 2019, 10:54:05 AM

Quote from: af_newbie on January 05, 2019, 09:17:51 AM

Ask your God for pin numbers of my ATM cards and post it here.

or a youtube video with you and your God chatting about how he created the universe.

or ask God to join our conversation in this thread.

I don't have power over God to be giving Him orders, God is not my slave.

It is ultimately God's choice to decide whether to reveal Himself to anyone, not my choice.

So you failed to convince me that your God exists.

Have you noticed that he only reveals himself to deluded people?

ATMD

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 12

Quote from: af_newbie on January 05, 2019, 09:17:51 AM

Ask your God for pin numbers of my ATM cards and post it here.

or a youtube video with you and your God chatting about how he created the universe.

or ask God to join our conversation in this thread.

I don't have power over God to be giving Him orders, God is not my slave.

It is ultimately God's choice to decide whether to reveal Himself to anyone, not my choice.

Spendulus

legendary

Activity: 2926

Merit: 1386

Quote from: sudeshkumar on January 05, 2019, 04:12:27 AM

Quote from: Spendulus on January 04, 2019, 10:50:03 PM

Quote from: sudeshkumar on January 04, 2019, 03:06:08 AM

For athiest there is no God ,everthing is creation or the existance with cause and effect.We create our own heaven or hell,not in hereafter ,but on earth,in our lifetime by the compassion we give our fellow beings and which we receive in return.
His thinking is free from all the prejudices and fear created by the flagbearers of different religions fundamentalists and not influenced by any relgion and beyond its restrictions.His only holy sacrament is compassion because he recognizes that the individual life is precious to him and accord the same value to the life of all other beings including beings who opposes our religions and political belief. Do you agree?

No. You've just created a total fake stereotype.

In reality, athiests are as varied as people are. Some for example would laugh at your arguments, and a very few would agree.

Some are full of hate and bigotry.

Very few have an open mind.

No ,Most of the people live in the shackles of old aged traditions and conventions , does not bother about their deep rooted logics and their utilities in modern era ,whether these logics are having any
relevance today ,Athiest atleast comeover these and give proper thinking and their arguments are helpful in the growth of the society.

I truly do not think that you can support these assertions with logic and reason.

Note that I'm not arguing against your hypothesized Meritorious Position, just against your imputing heroic and honorable natures to the personalities of those holding the Meritorious Position.

af_newbie

legendary

Activity: 2702

Merit: 1468

Quote from: ATMD on January 05, 2019, 08:52:51 AM

Quote from: af_newbie on January 04, 2019, 10:24:34 PM

That is what I thought. You pulled it out of your ass. You see it, therefore it is true. You have some insane logic.

What answer could I have given you that would have been satisfactory?

Ask your God for pin numbers of my ATM cards and post it here.

or a youtube video with you and your God chatting about how he created the universe.

or ask God to join our conversation in this thread.

ATMD

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 12

Quote from: af_newbie on January 04, 2019, 10:24:34 PM

That is what I thought. You pulled it out of your ass. You see it, therefore it is true. You have some insane logic.

What answer could I have given you that would have been satisfactory?

sudeshkumar

jr. member

Activity: 126

Merit: 1

THE ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROTOCOL

Quote from: Spendulus on January 04, 2019, 10:50:03 PM

Quote from: sudeshkumar on January 04, 2019, 03:06:08 AM

For athiest there is no God ,everthing is creation or the existance with cause and effect.We create our own heaven or hell,not in hereafter ,but on earth,in our lifetime by the compassion we give our fellow beings and which we receive in return.
His thinking is free from all the prejudices and fear created by the flagbearers of different religions fundamentalists and not influenced by any relgion and beyond its restrictions.His only holy sacrament is compassion because he recognizes that the individual life is precious to him and accord the same value to the life of all other beings including beings who opposes our religions and political belief. Do you agree?

No. You've just created a total fake stereotype.

In reality, athiests are as varied as people are. Some for example would laugh at your arguments, and a very few would agree.

Some are full of hate and bigotry.

Very few have an open mind.

No ,Most of the people live in the shackles of old aged traditions and conventions , does not bother about their deep rooted logics and their utilities in modern era ,whether these logics are having any
relevance today ,Athiest atleast comeover these and give proper thinking and their arguments are helpful in the growth of the society.

Spendulus

legendary

Activity: 2926

Merit: 1386

Quote from: sudeshkumar on January 04, 2019, 03:06:08 AM

For athiest there is no God ,everthing is creation or the existance with cause and effect.We create our own heaven or hell,not in hereafter ,but on earth,in our lifetime by the compassion we give our fellow beings and which we receive in return.
His thinking is free from all the prejudices and fear created by the flagbearers of different religions fundamentalists and not influenced by any relgion and beyond its restrictions.His only holy sacrament is compassion because he recognizes that the individual life is precious to him and accord the same value to the life of all other beings including beings who opposes our religions and political belief. Do you agree?

No. You've just created a total fake stereotype.

In reality, athiests are as varied as people are. Some for example would laugh at your arguments, and a very few would agree.

Some are full of hate and bigotry.

Very few have an open mind.

af_newbie

legendary

Activity: 2702

Merit: 1468

Quote from: ATMD on January 04, 2019, 06:26:49 PM

Quote from: af_newbie on January 04, 2019, 04:40:04 PM

Ok, I am going to ask one last time.

How do you know that he exists, that he created anything, what he is and that he is a he?

When I see nature, I see intelligent design. Intelligent design implies an intelligent designer who I refer to as God.
...

That is what I thought. You pulled it out of your ass. You see it, therefore it is true. You have some insane logic.

Who designed the intelligent designer? Another intelligent designer?

Spendulus

legendary

Activity: 2926

Merit: 1386

Quote from: af_newbie on January 04, 2019, 11:30:56 AM

Quote from: michaelkelly8798 on January 04, 2019, 09:22:23 AM

....
BTW, I am interested in some real miracles. Post them here.

How did you determine they are the real miracles?

Bitcoin.

ATMD

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 12

Quote from: af_newbie on January 04, 2019, 04:40:04 PM

Ok, I am going to ask one last time.

How do you know that he exists, that he created anything, what he is and that he is a he?

When I see nature, I see intelligent design. Intelligent design implies an intelligent designer who I refer to as God.

I do not believe that life and consciousness came about spontaneously. I don't believe our universe came about spontaneously from nothing.

I don't think God is a "he", in fact I think God has no gender. I use the pronoun "he" because that is the conventional pronoun for God.

af_newbie

legendary

Activity: 2702

Merit: 1468

Quote from: ATMD on January 04, 2019, 04:17:19 PM

Quote from: af_newbie on January 04, 2019, 03:25:17 PM

No creation story yet he created the universe. Well,...

It is your overactive imagination filling in the blanks in your knowledge.
Psychological comfort. That is all.

Come back to me if you have anything other than your own assumptions and conjectures.

You were asking what criteria to use for deciding who is God.

That creation story is the story of the creation of the universe. The God we are talking about has no creation story of his own. How was God created? From where did he come from?

God does not have one because he is not created, he always exist.

Ok, I am going to ask one last time.

How do you know that he exists, that he created anything, what he is and that he is a he?

ATMD

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 12

Quote from: af_newbie on January 04, 2019, 03:25:17 PM

No creation story yet he created the universe. Well,...

It is your overactive imagination filling in the blanks in your knowledge.
Psychological comfort. That is all.

Come back to me if you have anything other than your own assumptions and conjectures.

You were asking what criteria to use for deciding who is God.

That creation story is the story of the creation of the universe. The God we are talking about has no creation story of his own. How was God created? From where did he come from?

God does not have one because he is not created, he always exist.

BADecker

legendary

Activity: 3906

Merit: 1373

Quote from: af_newbie on January 04, 2019, 03:25:17 PM

Quote from: ATMD on January 04, 2019, 03:19:30 PM

Quote from: af_newbie on January 04, 2019, 11:30:56 AM

Which one? There are over 3000+ Gods to choose from. What selection criteria did you use to select your God?

When we talk of God, we are talking about the creator of this universe, all the other gods who did not create this world are not what we are discussing here

John Lennox studied about ancient gods, he clearly explained how all those ancient gods such as greek gods, roman gods, hindu gods have theogony, which means they all have a creation story. The God we are talking about has no creation story, for this God is eternal. The ancient gods descended down from the heavens, God the creator created the heavens, this is the difference, and it is major one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr3ghb6JG6A&t=742s

No creation story yet he created the universe. Well,...

It is your overactive imagination filling in the blanks in your knowledge.
Psychological comfort. That is all.

Come back to me if you have anything other than your own assumptions and conjectures.

Nothing wrong with the idea of God not being created or made or having a beginning. After all, creating something is part of the properties that this universe does and harbors. For God to create the universe, he had to NOT be part of it. So, the source of God is not necessarily like the source of anything in the universe... which include, beginning, end, and time. God is eternal, whatever His source may be... if He had one.

However, Solomon says in Ecclesiastes 3:11:

Quote from: https://biblehub.com/ecclesiastes/3-11.htm

He [God] has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the human heart; yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end.

So, relax. None of us will ever figure everything out. So how can we even begin to understand God except by His revelation of Himself to us?

Cool

BADecker

legendary

Activity: 3906

Merit: 1373

Quote from: sudeshkumar on January 04, 2019, 11:38:00 AM

Quote from: BADecker on January 04, 2019, 11:05:22 AM

Free thinking doesn't always equate with better.

Imagine that a child uses his free thinking with the idea that he will jump to the moon. So he thinks real hard and jumps to the moon... and dies in the coldness and airlessness of outer space.

Better to use free thinking to not be free beyond bounds.

Cool

Similar answer is that free thinking does always can not be equated with negativity or worse as most of the people lives mechanical life and have a pre occupied mind and they do not have time to invest in deep thinking and they follow the traditions or conventions whether these have any utility or beneficial for society in modern age so the free thinking is helpful for them to overcome it.

Knowledge without thought is useless. Thought without knowledge is dangerous.

Thinking is fine. But when thinking drags one into atheism, it is like thought without knowledge, or worse: thought with denial.

Cool

af_newbie

legendary

Activity: 2702

Merit: 1468

Quote from: ATMD on January 04, 2019, 03:19:30 PM

Quote from: af_newbie on January 04, 2019, 11:30:56 AM

Which one? There are over 3000+ Gods to choose from. What selection criteria did you use to select your God?

When we talk of God, we are talking about the creator of this universe, all the other gods who did not create this world are not what we are discussing here

John Lennox studied about ancient gods, he clearly explained how all those ancient gods such as greek gods, roman gods, hindu gods have theogony, which means they all have a creation story. The God we are talking about has no creation story, for this God is eternal. The ancient gods descended down from the heavens, God the creator created the heavens, this is the difference, and it is major one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr3ghb6JG6A&t=742s

No creation story yet he created the universe. Well,...

It is your overactive imagination filling in the blanks in your knowledge.
Psychological comfort. That is all.

Come back to me if you have anything other than your own assumptions and conjectures.

Topic: Athiest are the ultimate free thinker? - page 6. (Read 20690 times)