Topic: Athiest are the ultimate free thinker? - page 4. (Read 20690 times)

Well, what does it matter to you what the facts are? We're not debating whether the Earth is six thousand years old, or other crackpot stuff. You simply didn't know the subject when I commented on things reducing to "pretty much nothing," and sought to change the subject and so forth.

There's no need to bring thermo in, or mass conservation, they have little relation to this subject. It would take some study to get it. It's easier just to toss out a few quotes from the Tower of Biblical, right?

I recognize conversation tone got a little out of control, my bad.

Christ himself spoke like that against pharisees, I'm very sorry if I sounded too rude while defending a point but I in anyway have insulted you. I ask you for an apology though.

You seem like a person who's read a lot, what you say makes a lot of sense. The teachings of Jesus definitely were definitely very noble, the prophets of the Jews prophesized and described Jesus death and life but most of Jews don't know that. Read Psalm 22 as an example and you will see how mind blowing it is. Today's Jews believe the book of Psalms is real yet don't believe in Jesus. Please read it yourself and tell me if you think that can be faked. Jesus is more than just the representation of righteousness and a good ideology, He really was the son of God. Read Isaias 53. This will blow your mind.

Abbreviated to actual content.

You've so far, said four or five things that were untrue, dodged real issues a number of times, and topped it off with a bunch of emotional and juvenile attempts at insults.

This is not the behavior of one who should imitate Christ.

How about let's have a real miracle here, and you see the light?

I don't mind doing up publicly if anyone cares.

I'm probably an atheist for several main reasons.  1) brain wiring, and 2) I was from an 'atheist family' so to speak.

What I've come to believe rather recently is that even if someone is an atheist they still grew up an environment shaped by the prominent religion there-of, and usually it had a significant influence on them.  Shrieks to the contrary, the U.S. actually is, or at least until recently was, a 'Christian Nation' for all intents and purposes, and my own ethics were to a noticeable degree shaped by this fact.  That suites me fine because as I study things I come to the conclusion that many of the messages ascribed to the teachings of Jesus Christ were among the most noble devised by mankind anywhere.  It's fun to troll the modern American peeps with such a message since it really gets under some of their skin, but it also happens to be the truth...as I currently see it.  And as I always say, it's almost impossible to do a good troll without saying the truth since that is what makes it good.  And effective.

I would also say that some people call themselves 'atheist' because they don't fit into one of the 'big [int]' religions.  When they say 'but I am spiritual', they are not 'atheist' in my opinion.  Not even 'agnostic'.  In the West at least they are usually kabbalahists/luciferians more closely related to modern Judaism than anything else, but usually the don't know it.  That's what all this new-age weirdness is all about as I see it.  Molding the masses in anticipation of a hoped-for 'turning.'  And doing a bang-up job of it to my consternation.

Please continue this proof of the big bang, I would like to read it.

I agree that this world used to be nothing, but I find it difficult to believe that it could spontaneously come into existence by itself. I believe that God created it from nothing.

BTW I was not talking about thermodynamics but mass conservation LAW.

Thousands of years ago written and no inconsistencies found. Your science is wrong, real science doesn't contradict science.

Someone needs some science classes. Posting formulas won't make you look clever, eveyone knows Einstein's formula. Understand you can't get 1 as a result from adding just zeros. No matter how many zeros you add the result is going to be always ZERO. You can't create something from nothing. Math is strictly attached to reality when will you realize that?

<<
John 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.>>

Well, the Big Bang was a singularity of sorts, if not in space then certainly in time.

"Space" had no meaning at that moment. Let's say a way to understand it is that there were no dimensions. Length, width, height had no meaning.

In scientific phrases, that's not INCONSISTANT with your comment, if it is revised to the correct form, including both matter and energy thusly...

E=MC^2

PS: I shouldn't have cut you that much slack, sitting her watching a b grade movie about aliens taking over and humans fighting, and giving you about 1% of my attention. You are just plain wrong.

It's energy that's never created or destroyed. Not matter. The proof is in the equation. But it could run considerably deeper than that, and energy may not be conserved.

But what's all that to a good Christian?

Many so-called "miracles" are a scam. Then there's a push for your donations...

This is pretty simple. I don't know why you would resist it. Wait, it's because you are pushing Real Miracles. Well, keep at it. Just expect others to use scientific methods to debunk them. Wait, you'd have to understand the formulation of a scientific hypothesis to get it.....

Hi tvbcof, I'm honored to read a comment like yours, you are someone who is very honest, and able to admit reality even when it is not playing on his side. I respect you are an atheist even though I don't approve it. I was born with a different religion, but I was bold enough to recognize what I believed was wrong. But man, I'm curious, how did you become an atheist? Were you born an atheist or did you come to the conclusion yourself there was no God? Because I can tell you I have 100% certainty there is a God. I'm not telling this just out of faith don't get me wrong. We can have a friendly discussion you can pm me if you like.

It was easier to say what in what he did was a trick or an illusion. I read what you sent, placebo and preassure and all that. But the guy is doing exactly the opposite. I was just hoping to see what was a scam on the miracles he performed.

haha this guy is hilarious! Please someone explain to him something can't be created from nothing. Matter can't be destroyed or created but just modified. The big bang theory was founded by a catholic priest who was a creationist. Man you need to have less imagination and more deductive/critical thinking.

Well, that's the fourth false thing you have said so far in this discussion.

There has been no such thing. Perhaps you don't understand or care to, and just wanted me to elaborate on the many scammers, present and past, that pose as preachers?

It's curious you wouldn't appreciate the good work such people do...

I'm an atheist and many of my friends and family are also.  I can assure you that very very few of them are 'free thinkers', though it is not uncommon for them to believe they are, and sometimes by virtue of their atheism itself.

Currently I find that some of the people I respect the most in terms of being 'free thinkers' are are least mildly religious.  They tend to be unafraid to 'admit' their religiosity, but at the same time they rarely lean on their beliefs to inform their thinking and rhetorical arguments.  Most of the time I don't know that they are religious for a long time.

I've come to feel that being mildly religious gives people a certain freedom from certain constraints and lets them analyze with at least a different if not a lesser burden of baggage.  It is abundantly clear why more totalitarian forms of government are adverse to organized religion, or at least religions that are outside of their control.  There is a strong correlation between atheism (and especially militant atheism) among my friends/family and obedience/affection for the socialist state apparatus.

Oh, I see. Well, perhaps that is your point now, but it was not with the prior post and quote. However, your prior post along with this belief are consistent. I certainly know scientists who are devout Christian/Muslim/whatever and do not see any conflict between their beliefs and science.

Yes, this world did come from pretty much nothing. It was all compressed into pretty much nothing before the Big Bang.

No questions, just that we are running in circles. Why run around the bush when you can give a concise answer?

Well if we are to entertain Lennox's quote, then we have to understand his world view. He studies ancient gods and claims that they all have theogeny, or an origin story, they are in effect "created gods". They are not eternal.

The "God" word in his definition (and mine) is the creator of this universe. The creator is himself not created, he is eternal. God also has no gender, I use the pronoun "he" because it is conventional. Whether there is more than one creator is not the point, for the sake of our discussion, let's equate God with "the creator of this universe". So it doesn't matter whether his name is Zeus or Jack or Daisy.

My point is I believe that there is an intelligent designer of this universe, this world didn't come from nothing, and I call this intelligent designer "God".