Topic: Aug 1 summary - page 43. (Read 96452 times)
Is bcash still going to use the btc blockchain? or is it going to be rebooted on it's own fresh blockchain?
Executive summary
Bitcoin is working fine and you can use it as you were before, possibly with slightly more reorg risk for a while.
Bitcoin is working fine and you can use it as you were before, possibly with slightly more reorg risk for a while.
Disappointed there was no html marquee banner scrolling across the top with up to the minute updates.
It was there. @Theymos encrypted it.
What wallet would you recommend for BCH ?
You could take a look at some suggested wallets by http://bitcoincash.org/ good luckJust one question if i have bitcoins(XBT) on my wallet that eligible to be split and i choose to send some coins to someone else...is the receiver eligible to claim the
What wallet would you recommend for BCH ?
The last update of Electrum 2.9 says it will support BCH or BCC. Which ever one.Best to review their update page just to be on the safe side.
But since I have this wallet I will be upgrading to this one so the transfer of my private keys will be fluid with the syncing up so to receive the BCH or BCC whichever one flawlessy.
I have a question. Why the blocks are still limited to 1mb? I just checked blockchain.info and all the blocks are having the same limits.
blockchain.info shows blockchain of original bitcoin, not bitcoin cash)
I have a question. Why the blocks are still limited to 1mb? I just checked blockchain.info and all the blocks are having the same limits.
BCH is an altcoin with almost no support whatsoever. Bitcoin consensus rules have not changed, and the maximum block size remains at 1 MB. 
I have a question. Why the blocks are still limited to 1mb? I just checked blockchain.info and all the blocks are having the same limits.
Thanks for clarifying everything theymos. As I don't want to do anything with my BCC at all, good to know that I can claim it whenever I wanted.
If you are using electrum just send it to another wallet where you have new private keys. And use the old wallet where you've got those bitcoins for claiming BCC just for protection.
Exactly.
So in-case their replay protection doesn't work.
We should just send all our BTC to ourselves? So send entire balance from the same BTC address to the same BTC address? Does the Bitcoin network allow that?
We should just send all our BTC to ourselves? So send entire balance from the same BTC address to the same BTC address? Does the Bitcoin network allow that?
If you are using electrum just send it to another wallet where you have new private keys. And use the old wallet where you've got those bitcoins for claiming BCC just for protection.
If you want to send BCH then we need an entire new wallet?
Exactly.
Thank you for this guide theymos.
If you can use private keys with no btc on it (because you just sent it to another wallet) will it work with ANY private keys? What if I have very old private keys that had some btc earlier and I'll import it in BCH wallet?
No. That makes no sense at all. The balances on BCH are a "snapshot" from around ~2 PM UTC today. If your address had money on it at that time, then you can import the corresponding key into BCH. However, you should move away the money from the same key on BTC.The point of that is to avoid giving private keys full of BTC to hosted wallets or largely-untested BCH software.
This. I am not even considering touching anything yet as they made a lot of changes to their software. 
Thanks your info! I still one BTC and other coin
Executive summary
Bitcoin is working fine and you can use it as you were before, possibly with slightly more reorg risk for a while.
The BIP91/BIP148 split didn't occur
As had been expected for the last week or so, the big potential split which caused all of the Aug 1 hubbub didn't happen, due to BIP91/BIP148 succeeding. There's a small chance that this split could still happen sometime between now and around Aug 10, but it looks very unlikely at this point.
Bcash split, creating an altcoin
If you had some number of BTC as of approximately 14:00 UTC, and if these bitcoins were secured by private keys controlled by you or in a Bcash-supporting online wallet, it is now possible for you to claim the same number of Bcash coins (BCH/BCC). Bcash is an altcoin based on Bitcoin; since it split, it is now 100% independent from Bitcoin other than the carried-over balances.
Bcash claims to have replay protection, but this is only a Bcash miner policy. Any Bcash miner could still replay transactions. Therefore, you can't safely rely on it.
Instructions for safely splitting your BCH from your BTC
Here are general split instructions. If your wallet software gives different instructions, use those instead.
These are the best instructions I could come up with quickly. Maybe someone will eventually come up with a more convenient way of doing it. Note that while I believe these instructions to be safe and reasonable, you are solely responsible for your safety here.
1. Decide whether you want to bother splitting your coins at all. Is it actually worthwhile to remove your coins from cold storage (or whatever)? If you take no particular action and continue using Bitcoin as normal, then your BCH is likely (but not guaranteed) to remain associated with the current private keys due to BCH's pseudo-replay-protection; you could therefore maybe claim your BCH later on if you want. If you want to claim your BCH now, continue to the next steps.
2. Create a totally new logical wallet with a new mnemonic, etc. Just creating new addresses is not sufficient: the new wallet needs to be completely separate from the old one. The new wallet's private keys should be under your personal control just in case your transaction is replayed or something else goes wrong. Make sure you have backups of the new wallet.
3. Send all of the BTC in your old wallet to your new wallet, and wait until this transaction has 30 confirmations. (If you are really itching to get your BCH, it would not be totally crazy to wait for as few as 3 confirmations, but there is some risk with that.) Note that sending all of your BTC in a single transaction is likely to be harmful to your privacy; if you care about this, you might want to send it in several smaller transactions to several different addresses on the new wallet.
4. On a separate computer that you wouldn't too much mind being compromised, install a BCash wallet such as one of the ones listed on bitcoincash.org. (Warning: some Bcash wallets are known to overwrite important files belonging to their Bitcoin counterparts.) Or use a Web-based exchange/wallet supporting Bcash. Import the private keys from your old, now-empty Bitcoin wallet into this Bcash wallet. Now you have BCH which you can handle as you wish. Note that BCH transactions may be very slow to confirm for a couple of days.
Continuing risks
Although I am giving a general "all clear" at this point because the risk of serious issues has dropped substantially, some turbulence is still possible due to BIP91/BIP148 and the rollout of SegWit:
- If you are using a full-node wallet (eg. Bitcoin Core), you should require 30 confirmations for high-value, untrusted incoming transactions until SegWit locks in around Aug 10. Although seemingly quite unlikely at this point, it is possible that miners could fail to enforce BIP91/BIP148, which could cause very long reorgs (ie. confirmations could disappear, allowing double-spending). This seems unlikely enough that I probably wouldn't require extra confirmations for "normal" transactions, but if you absolutely cannot tolerate any particular transaction being reversed, then waiting for 30 confirmations would be most prudent.
- If you are using a lightweight wallet, you should require 30 confirmations for all untrusted incoming transactions until SegWit locks in around Aug 10, and again for a couple of weeks after SegWit finally activates around Aug 24. Long reorgs or even persistent splits are possible if miners fail to properly enforce the rules of BIP91, BIP148, or SegWit, and lightweight wallets are particularly poor at handling such things because they will blindly accept invalid, probably-soon-to-be-orphaned blocks.
- I don't recommend putting much BTC on hosted wallets / exchanges generally. Exactly how the above risks would be translated to these services will vary depending on how each service handles deposits, reorgs, and double-spends.
Bitcoin is working fine and you can use it as you were before, possibly with slightly more reorg risk for a while.
The BIP91/BIP148 split didn't occur
As had been expected for the last week or so, the big potential split which caused all of the Aug 1 hubbub didn't happen, due to BIP91/BIP148 succeeding. There's a small chance that this split could still happen sometime between now and around Aug 10, but it looks very unlikely at this point.
Bcash split, creating an altcoin
If you had some number of BTC as of approximately 14:00 UTC, and if these bitcoins were secured by private keys controlled by you or in a Bcash-supporting online wallet, it is now possible for you to claim the same number of Bcash coins (BCH/BCC). Bcash is an altcoin based on Bitcoin; since it split, it is now 100% independent from Bitcoin other than the carried-over balances.
Bcash claims to have replay protection, but this is only a Bcash miner policy. Any Bcash miner could still replay transactions. Therefore, you can't safely rely on it.
Instructions for safely splitting your BCH from your BTC
Here are general split instructions. If your wallet software gives different instructions, use those instead.
These are the best instructions I could come up with quickly. Maybe someone will eventually come up with a more convenient way of doing it. Note that while I believe these instructions to be safe and reasonable, you are solely responsible for your safety here.
1. Decide whether you want to bother splitting your coins at all. Is it actually worthwhile to remove your coins from cold storage (or whatever)? If you take no particular action and continue using Bitcoin as normal, then your BCH is likely (but not guaranteed) to remain associated with the current private keys due to BCH's pseudo-replay-protection; you could therefore maybe claim your BCH later on if you want. If you want to claim your BCH now, continue to the next steps.
2. Create a totally new logical wallet with a new mnemonic, etc. Just creating new addresses is not sufficient: the new wallet needs to be completely separate from the old one. The new wallet's private keys should be under your personal control just in case your transaction is replayed or something else goes wrong. Make sure you have backups of the new wallet.
3. Send all of the BTC in your old wallet to your new wallet, and wait until this transaction has 30 confirmations. (If you are really itching to get your BCH, it would not be totally crazy to wait for as few as 3 confirmations, but there is some risk with that.) Note that sending all of your BTC in a single transaction is likely to be harmful to your privacy; if you care about this, you might want to send it in several smaller transactions to several different addresses on the new wallet.
4. On a separate computer that you wouldn't too much mind being compromised, install a BCash wallet such as one of the ones listed on bitcoincash.org. (Warning: some Bcash wallets are known to overwrite important files belonging to their Bitcoin counterparts.) Or use a Web-based exchange/wallet supporting Bcash. Import the private keys from your old, now-empty Bitcoin wallet into this Bcash wallet. Now you have BCH which you can handle as you wish. Note that BCH transactions may be very slow to confirm for a couple of days.
Continuing risks
Although I am giving a general "all clear" at this point because the risk of serious issues has dropped substantially, some turbulence is still possible due to BIP91/BIP148 and the rollout of SegWit:
- If you are using a full-node wallet (eg. Bitcoin Core), you should require 30 confirmations for high-value, untrusted incoming transactions until SegWit locks in around Aug 10. Although seemingly quite unlikely at this point, it is possible that miners could fail to enforce BIP91/BIP148, which could cause very long reorgs (ie. confirmations could disappear, allowing double-spending). This seems unlikely enough that I probably wouldn't require extra confirmations for "normal" transactions, but if you absolutely cannot tolerate any particular transaction being reversed, then waiting for 30 confirmations would be most prudent.
- If you are using a lightweight wallet, you should require 30 confirmations for all untrusted incoming transactions until SegWit locks in around Aug 10, and again for a couple of weeks after SegWit finally activates around Aug 24. Long reorgs or even persistent splits are possible if miners fail to properly enforce the rules of BIP91, BIP148, or SegWit, and lightweight wallets are particularly poor at handling such things because they will blindly accept invalid, probably-soon-to-be-orphaned blocks.
- I don't recommend putting much BTC on hosted wallets / exchanges generally. Exactly how the above risks would be translated to these services will vary depending on how each service handles deposits, reorgs, and double-spends.
If you can use private keys with no btc on it (because you just sent it to another wallet) will it work with ANY private keys? What if I have very old private keys that had some btc earlier and I'll import it in BCH wallet?
Will I get BCC if I transfer bitcoin to my wallet after the split as I have the private keys to that wallet?
And to the OP, thanks very much for the light you've thrown on this issue. It has really helped me.
And to the OP, thanks very much for the light you've thrown on this issue. It has really helped me.
I'm curious about the instructions to move all BTC to a new wallet. Is this simply a way to ensure
BTC and BCC don't use identical keys going forward or is there a technical reason for it?
BTC and BCC don't use identical keys going forward or is there a technical reason for it?
The point of that is to avoid giving private keys full of BTC to hosted wallets or largely-untested BCH software.
Many thanks.
Thank you for taking the trouble to keep us informed step by step. Very grateful.
Guys, sorry if it's a noob question, but to check if my understanding is correct: after everything is stable, we have both BTC and BCH operating normally and supported by main exchanges etc.; does that mean we automatically have the same amount of BTC we had prior to the split, as BCH? So we can spend both independently, as long as we follow the directions in this thread?
Thanks
Thanks
So in-case their replay protection doesn't work.
We should just send all our BTC to ourselves? So send entire balance from the same BTC address to the same BTC address? Does the Bitcoin network allow that?
If you want to send BCH then we need an entire new wallet?
We should just send all our BTC to ourselves? So send entire balance from the same BTC address to the same BTC address? Does the Bitcoin network allow that?
If you want to send BCH then we need an entire new wallet?
I'm curious about the instructions to move all BTC to a new wallet. Is this simply a way to ensure
BTC and BCC don't use identical keys going forward or is there a technical reason for it?
BTC and BCC don't use identical keys going forward or is there a technical reason for it?
The point of that is to avoid giving private keys full of BTC to hosted wallets or largely-untested BCH software.
Another way to handle the HF:
https://github.com/mmgen/mmgen/commit/576d8036c798249e237c422dad5a1e94a4082a21
Funds do not need to be split before the fork. Transaction replay between chains is impossible, as BCH uses a completely different sighash algorithm. Signatures from one chain's transactions cannot be used to sign another's. The Bitcoin ABC daemon and Core daemon can be run side-by-side on the same machine. I'm doing it now. The main thing is to maintain two fully independent blockchains and keep your data directories separate. Needless to say, keep your keys offline.
https://github.com/mmgen/mmgen/commit/576d8036c798249e237c422dad5a1e94a4082a21
Funds do not need to be split before the fork. Transaction replay between chains is impossible, as BCH uses a completely different sighash algorithm. Signatures from one chain's transactions cannot be used to sign another's. The Bitcoin ABC daemon and Core daemon can be run side-by-side on the same machine. I'm doing it now. The main thing is to maintain two fully independent blockchains and keep your data directories separate. Needless to say, keep your keys offline.
I think this is what I was getting at in my previous post. I assume your BTC and BCH wallets use identical keys and
have the same set of addresses created before the split yet work fine side by side?
Yes. I just copied the entire data directory, including wallet.dat, before the HF, so yes, keys and addresses are identical. I'm using watch-only addresses and holding my keys offline for security though. That's part of the MMGen wallet system.
Got mine safe and sound . moving them to Bittrex and selling now ..
My short version of the tutorial :
.Wallet A - has BTC
.Move BTC to wallet B (make a new wallet - wallet B) - WAIT FOR +6 CONFIRMATIONS ... that's what I did anyway
.Create BCC wallet > see bitcoincash.org - the BCC electrum version made by some dudes
.import private keys from BTC wallet A to the new BCC wallet
TAdaaaaaaaaaaaa
how exactly are you moving BCC to bittrex?There BCC wallet is not active nowMy short version of the tutorial :
.Wallet A - has BTC
.Move BTC to wallet B (make a new wallet - wallet B) - WAIT FOR +6 CONFIRMATIONS ... that's what I did anyway
.Create BCC wallet > see bitcoincash.org - the BCC electrum version made by some dudes
.import private keys from BTC wallet A to the new BCC wallet
TAdaaaaaaaaaaaa
Source - https://bittrex.com/Status
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