Avalon ASIC users thread - page 217.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: kjj on February 02, 2013, 08:12:01 AM

DC Power supplies are marked by the DC wattage provided, not by the AC wattage consumed. There is nothing at all strange about a device marked "450W" pulling 600+ watts from the wall.

This is a 91% efficiency power supply. So even if that was "normal" 620W AC is ~565W DC. 565W DC > 400W DC.

Also remember the 400W number comes from the product listing for the entire unit. It is "strange" for a company to have all the specs related to the entire unit except the power which just happens to be just the chip (not even the total DC wattage). Now for the module only listing putting a wattage of ~180W DC would be realistic.

Still even if you take 620W AC remove the PSU inefficiency getting 565W DC then drop out 25W for the host and 3 5W fans = 540W not 400W. A single module by itself has to be pulling ~180W ea (3x180 = 540) not ~133W ea (3x133W=400W). So the 400W number is dishonest, there is no way or reason to spin that. The sad thing is first out the door @ 180W per module and 620W per unit is still impressive. It is dishonesty that isn't even needed.

PuertoLibre

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Quote from: kaerf on February 02, 2013, 02:38:22 AM

Quote from: goxed on February 02, 2013, 02:25:08 AM

Quote from: ngzhang on February 01, 2013, 11:20:54 PM

Chip's power consumption is <6.6W/Ghs

ATX power loses(82%), DC/DC power loses(87%), Fan(5~20w), etc…

So…

650W * 0.82 * 0.87 - 20W = 443W, About right.

so an equivalent bfl number would be something like:

60w / .87 / .82 + 2W (fan) + 5W (host) = 91 W (host can be discounted for many since it can run several units)

or "bfl's worst case" 60W * 1.2 = 72W ===> 72w / .87 / .82 + 2W (fan) + 5W (host) = ~108W

Unless you want Inaba to eat you alive, never quote that reality, ever again. Wink

By the way, if BFL overclocks, it will raise even that amount by a bit more. Adding the host just raises it further.

organofcorti

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Poor impulse control.

Quote from: organofcorti on February 02, 2013, 11:36:48 AM

I have a post in progress at http://organofcorti.blogspot.com/2013/02/98-asic-choices-avalon-update.html

All the charts are up and are self explanatory - it's an update based on Jeff's 620W power consumption figure, and the charts show, amongst other things, what you might earn if you have a batch1 or batch2 Avalon and you're paying the high electricity prices.

I'll update it with words when I have time. Right now I'm going to bed, sad that the Avalon store did not work for me.

I was too sad to go to bed so I finished the post. Beware! It's nearly 4am and there will be typos.

http://organofcorti.blogspot.com/2013/02/98-asic-choices-avalon-update.html

PuertoLibre

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Quote from: Nemesis on February 01, 2013, 11:33:12 PM

Quote from: ngzhang on February 01, 2013, 11:20:54 PM

Chip's power consumption is <6.6W/Ghs

ATX power loses(82%), DC/DC power loses(87%), Fan(5~20w), etc…

So…

Dear Dr. NGZHANG,

That's not the reason for you to claim the power consumption of the unit is 450w.

The power consumption of the unit is what all it matters. You picked on BFL for the same thing and now you talked like its all fine and dandy.

LOL at ... saying fans power and all that. Should I add the power I need to cool my room?

Actually, yes.

When summer comes around you will need it regardless of which vendor you go with. If you "need it" to run a Bitcoin mining operation then it should be included in the final calculations.

PuertoLibre

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Quote from: regular on February 01, 2013, 11:23:43 PM

thanks for clearing that up ngzhang.

Makes sense as it's a stand alone unit. When quoting BFL's numbers, no one includes the PC it's hooked up to either.

Which should be referred to as The "Tethered Wattage".

No BFL customer is going to bring that bit up without figuring out a cheap lower power alternative. Even a laptop adds 50% to that power figure. A desktop, much more.

organofcorti

donator

Activity: 2058

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Poor impulse control.

I have a post in progress at http://organofcorti.blogspot.com/2013/02/98-asic-choices-avalon-update.html

All the charts are up and are self explanatory - it's an update based on Jeff's 620W power consumption figure, and the charts show, amongst other things, what you might earn if you have a batch1 or batch2 Avalon and you're paying the high electricity prices.

I'll update it with words when I have time. Right now I'm going to bed, sad that the Avalon store did not work for me.

wndrbr3d

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Quote from: Beepbop on February 02, 2013, 10:23:35 AM

Have you tried measuring the power without the UPS square wave being invovled? I.o.w. plug it straight into the wall (or perhaps with a transient protector only)?

Most consumer UPS systems don't run inline AC->DC->AC (this is why your UPS doesn't act as a space heater while the power is still on), but basically act as a surge protector until power cuts then a relay throws starting the DC->AC which usually converts a square DC to a staggered AC.

At worst the UPS is just trickle charging off the AC line. Usually only data center UPS's run 100% live through battery.

jgarzik

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Quote from: Beepbop on February 02, 2013, 10:23:35 AM

Have you tried measuring the power without the UPS square wave being invovled? I.o.w. plug it straight into the wall (or perhaps with a transient protector only)?

No, though several have requested that.

It would be good to eliminate the UPS as a factor, agreed.

jgarzik

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Quote from: coastermonger on February 02, 2013, 10:20:27 AM

What are the odds that you could get an Avalon to run with a program like 50miner or guiminer?

Supposed the source will be opened, probably after Yifu gets some sleep and batch #2 sales

In that case, other miners may be modified and used. It appears to be a modified cgminer, modified kernel (Avalon device driver), and otherwise stock OpenWRT install.

Beepbop

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Have you tried measuring the power without the UPS square wave being invovled? I.o.w. plug it straight into the wall (or perhaps with a transient protector only)?

coastermonger

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Find me at Bitrated

What are the odds that you could get an Avalon to run with a program like 50miner or guiminer?
I think the more pools you are able to use the better.

jgarzik

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Quote from: bitmar on February 02, 2013, 08:21:43 AM

So, it does not work with p2pool. right?

Just mined all night on p2pool.

It looks like fixing the air flow/physical configuration solved the issues.

No miner or machine restarts while I was sleeping, and while it was mining p2pool.

(no p2pool blocks either, alas)

jgarzik

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Quote from: archetyp on February 02, 2013, 07:33:56 AM

what I fear is that avalon guys will mine for themselves for a while before shipping.

They mined on a test pool, according to Yifu.

rchapoteau

newbie

Activity: 56

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So does this mean that the 4 module unit will pull around 800w?

kano

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Linux since 1997 RedHat 4

Quote from: jgarzik on February 02, 2013, 04:02:50 AM

Quote from: kano on February 02, 2013, 03:50:46 AM

Quote from: jgarzik on February 02, 2013, 02:53:38 AM

Software bug: changing cgminer configuration claims to work at runtime, but does not. Thus, changing pool settings requires a reboot.

Yes editing the configuration file has no effect on a running cgminer.

Your comment is entirely unrelated to the problem at hand.

The management software is fully capable of restarting cgminer.

Yes I know, I wrote the interface and the code that hooks into the internal functions to do all that without killing the software, but instead shut it down properly.
The interface is called the API (I wrote almost all of the API)
The commands to stop or restart it are 'quit' and 'restart'
I also wrote the code that deals with who can access the API and the cgminer options that set that.
None of that existed before November 2011 ...

As for what is in there in their version? No idea. But most likely all they've done is get Xiangfu to add hooks into getting extra work for the 24? work items required to be sent to the device each time, instead of 1 (no it's not a bASIC/BFL MCU queue - oh well) and write a driver-xyz.c that uses that and fpgautils.c

The screen output you show of the miner performance is directly from my API.
Pity they didn't use miner.php (that I wrote) that's in there also ...

Though since we don't have access to the source, they probably have a bug in there that ckolivas found today that doesn't release all work created ... and on a machine that creates work items 80x faster than a typical BFL FPGA Single, you can of course expect that memory issue to be way more obvious ...

bitmar

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Quote from: jgarzik on February 01, 2013, 05:22:22 PM

Quote from: Aseras on February 01, 2013, 05:07:41 PM

Did you ever try it in p2pool

Yes, see the review linked in OP.

Quote

or with a high diff share?

Yes, "vardiff" works on BTC Guild with this miner.

Quote from: jgarzik

After some very helpful advice from p2pool's author and #p2pool channel, it appeared to start working. Then Strange Things Happened. The miner and p2pool both started reporting very odd values for everything from hardware fan temperature to software share difficulty on the pool side.

So, it does not work with p2pool. right?

kjj

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DC Power supplies are marked by the DC wattage provided, not by the AC wattage consumed. There is nothing at all strange about a device marked "450W" pulling 600+ watts from the wall.

meowmeowbrowncow

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Activity: 322

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on February 02, 2013, 01:11:28 AM

Quote from: ngzhang on February 01, 2013, 11:48:31 PM

Any system needs to pay these extra power, including BFL.

Can we have honestly from one builder ONCE? You guys were doing so good up to this point.

That is pure and utter crap and you know it to.

The host in this case is a OpenWRT board pulling what 10W? Ok so 620W vs 610. Claiming 400W on your site is disingenous. Sure you have DC to DC losses so does anyone but that is part of the power load. AMD doesn't quote the power consumption of the raw chip when selling an entire graphics cards. They quote the card power usage which includes GPU, RAM, VRMS, fans, and any associated control circuitry.

Your system doesn't use 400W. Don't advertise that it uses 400W. It uses ~600W. Claiming anything less and then saying "oh it needs a host" when you know the host board is pulling a tiny fraction of that is just plain dishonest. Period. 620W vs 400W is a 55% increase. That is significant. Rise above your competitors and start acting like a real company. You know a real one which wouldn't pull a stunt like this because they would be facing a class action lawsuit for blatant misreprenstation of a material fact.

Yep. I'm surprised. This isn't a small matter. Quite a bit of spin, actually.

To say that the full power load shouldn't be published as the first, and primary power usage figure is .... contrary to the standard practices of any consumer electronics equipment I can think of.

It's kind of insulting to be told the sky is green.

archetyp

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Quote from: sephtin on February 02, 2013, 05:16:25 AM

Maybe I missed it...
As this is the "Avalon ASIC users thread", I was hoping to hear from other Avalon users...
We're all aware of Jeff and the Foundation having received theirs... anyone else?

yeah,

I really like to order as well,
what I fear is that avalon guys will mine for themselves for a while before shipping.

but as long as they have the product and are willing to ship I am alright with that.

sephtin

newbie

Activity: 47

Merit: 0

Maybe I missed it...
As this is the "Avalon ASIC users thread", I was hoping to hear from other Avalon users...
We're all aware of Jeff and the Foundation having received theirs... anyone else?

Topic: Avalon ASIC users thread - page 217. (Read 438335 times)