Avalon ASIC users thread - page 218.

jgarzik

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1091

Quote from: kano on February 02, 2013, 03:50:46 AM

Quote from: jgarzik on February 02, 2013, 02:53:38 AM

Software bug: changing cgminer configuration claims to work at runtime, but does not. Thus, changing pool settings requires a reboot.

Yes editing the configuration file has no effect on a running cgminer.

Your comment is entirely unrelated to the problem at hand.

The management software is fully capable of restarting cgminer.

kano

legendary

Activity: 4466

Merit: 1798

Linux since 1997 RedHat 4

Quote from: jgarzik on February 02, 2013, 02:53:38 AM

Software bug: changing cgminer configuration claims to work at runtime, but does not. Thus, changing pool settings requires a reboot.

Yes editing the configuration file has no effect on a running cgminer.
There are other ways to do it of course ... Tongue

repentance

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 1000

Jeff, in your opinion what was the "surprise"? The extra slot seems a bit underwhelming to have been the surprise Avalon was talking up before delivery.

jgarzik

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1091

Software bug: changing cgminer configuration claims to work at runtime, but does not. Thus, changing pool settings requires a reboot.

kaerf

hero member

Activity: 631

Merit: 500

Quote from: goxed on February 02, 2013, 02:25:08 AM

Quote from: ngzhang on February 01, 2013, 11:20:54 PM

Chip's power consumption is <6.6W/Ghs

ATX power loses(82%), DC/DC power loses(87%), Fan(5~20w), etc…

So…

650W * 0.82 * 0.87 - 20W = 443W, About right.

so an equivalent bfl number would be something like:

60w / .87 / .82 + 2W (fan) + 5W (host) = 91 W (host can be discounted for many since it can run several units)

or "bfl's worst case" 60W * 1.2 = 72W ===> 72w / .87 / .82 + 2W (fan) + 5W (host) = ~108W

goxed

legendary

Activity: 1946

Merit: 1006

Bitcoin / Crypto mining Hardware.

Quote from: ngzhang on February 01, 2013, 11:20:54 PM

Chip's power consumption is <6.6W/Ghs

ATX power loses(82%), DC/DC power loses(87%), Fan(5~20w), etc…

So…

650W * 0.82 * 0.87 - 20W = 443W, About right.

Nemesis

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

Quote from: crazyates on February 02, 2013, 01:59:58 AM

Quote from: Micon on February 02, 2013, 01:54:01 AM

Disgusting coming from a guy claiming to be CEO of a company holding millions of community coin and dollars.

I don't think he's the CEO, nor has he ever claimed to be.

Some punk kid doesn't know the difference between COO and CEO.

Are you surprised?

keewee

legendary

Activity: 1025

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Micon on February 02, 2013, 01:54:01 AM

Quote from: Inaba on February 01, 2013, 02:33:03 PM

Paging Jgarzik. Party of one. Jgarzik, party of 1! Your seat at the ASIC table is ready. JGarzik, party of 1!

I think this is one dinner you'll be happy to eat alone.

I'm sure the fair and balanced mods will be all over this one and warn him for trolling. Disgusting coming from a guy claiming to be CEO of a company holding millions of community coin and dollars. And also more importantly taking away from the real discussion that is the dawn of the ASIC age of bitcoin mining, something Jeff Garzik is sure to be instrumental in the ushering in process, which he has done like a boss:

Trolling? I don't see his comment that way at all. It sounded like a light hearted jab at the "users" part of the thread title

crazyates

legendary

Activity: 952

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Micon on February 02, 2013, 01:54:01 AM

Disgusting coming from a guy claiming to be CEO of a company holding millions of community coin and dollars.

I don't think he's the CEO, nor has he ever claimed to be.

Micon

legendary

Activity: 1232

Merit: 1014

FPV Drone Pilot

Quote from: Inaba on February 01, 2013, 02:33:03 PM

Paging Jgarzik. Party of one. Jgarzik, party of 1! Your seat at the ASIC table is ready. JGarzik, party of 1!

I think this is one dinner you'll be happy to eat alone.

I'm sure the fair and balanced mods will be all over this one and warn him for trolling. Disgusting coming from a guy claiming to be CEO of a company holding millions of community coin and dollars. And also more importantly taking away from the real discussion that is the dawn of the ASIC age of bitcoin mining, something Jeff Garzik is sure to be instrumental in the ushering in process, which he has done like a boss:

Quote from: jgarzik on February 01, 2013, 01:54:14 PM

Here is a general thread for owners of Avalon ASICs.

This is the review I posted: http://garzikrants.blogspot.com/2013/01/avalon-asic-miner-review.html

The restart issues mentioned appear to be have subsided (knock on wood) since I laid the unit down, and adjusted some air flow issues in my office.

Damn fine work Jeff. [and separately, bitcoin foundation] This important technology is best put first in the hands of the good guys.

Do not let any drama derail your important work as the Avalon ASICs come online all over the world, further securing the network as long as too many of them don't work band together with a pool of FPGAs and work for evil.

jgarzik

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1091

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on February 02, 2013, 01:11:28 AM

The host in this case is a OpenWRT board pulling what 10W? Ok so 620W vs 610. Claiming 400W on your site is disingenous. Sure you have DC to DC losses so does anyone but that is part of the power load. AMD doesn't quote the power consumption of the raw chip when selling an entire graphics cards. They quote the card power usage which includes GPU, RAM, VRMS, fans, and any associated control circuitry.

Your system doesn't use 400W. Don't advertise that it uses 400W. It uses ~600W. Claiming anything less and then saying "oh it needs a host" when you know the host board is pulling a tiny fraction of that is just plain dishonest. Period. 620W vs 400W is a 55% increase. That is significant. Rise above your competitors and start acting like a real company. You know a real one which wouldn't pull a stunt like this because they would be facing a class action lawsuit for blatant misreprenstation of a material fact.

However, it is fair to provide the base power consumption, because that potentially provides a better apples-to-apples comparison with other competitors.

IMO module and whole-unit power consumption figures would be the ones to publish.

DeathAndTaxes

donator

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1063

Gerald Davis

Quote from: ngzhang on February 01, 2013, 11:48:31 PM

Any system needs to pay these extra power, including BFL.

Can we have honestly from one builder ONCE? You guys were doing so good up to this point.

That is pure and utter crap and you know it to.

The host in this case is a OpenWRT board pulling what 10W? Ok so 620W vs 610. Claiming 400W on your site is disingenous. Sure you have DC to DC losses so does anyone but that is part of the power load. AMD doesn't quote the power consumption of the raw chip when selling an entire graphics cards. They quote the card power usage which includes GPU, RAM, VRMS, fans, and any associated control circuitry.

Your system doesn't use 400W. Don't advertise that it uses 400W. It uses ~600W. Claiming anything less and then saying "oh it needs a host" when you know the host board is pulling a tiny fraction of that is just plain dishonest. Period. 620W vs 400W is a 55% increase. That is significant. Rise above your competitors and start acting like a real company. You know a real one which wouldn't pull a stunt like this because they would be facing a class action lawsuit for blatant misreprenstation of a material fact.

DeathAndTaxes

donator

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1063

Gerald Davis

Quote from: galambo on February 01, 2013, 11:37:27 PM

I'd like to point out that the power usage for this unit is economically irrelevant, and not really necessary for discussion.

The statistic that matters most is time -- Avalon released first, so they win. That's really all there is to it.

Maybe for batch #1 which can take advantage of a lack of competition, but batch #2, batch #3, upgrade modules? Power matters in the long run.

Purchase price: $1500
620W for 1 year @ $0.10 per kWh = $543
620W for 2 year @ $0.10 per kWh = $1357

620W for 1 year @ $0.10 per kWh = $1086
620W for 2 year @ $0.25 per kWh = $2715

So depending on the economical lifespan of the miner and the power costs we are talking from 26% to 65% of "total cost of ownership" being electrical costs. A 55% increase over quoted power consumption is significant.

jjiimm_64

legendary

Activity: 1876

Merit: 1000

Quote from: klondike_bar on February 02, 2013, 12:41:30 AM

PSU issues can be fixed if the end-user feels like paying for a better PSU

140usd. plug in a SeaSonic 750 forthe win

klondike_bar

legendary

Activity: 2114

Merit: 1005

ASIC Wannabe

Quote from: Bogart on February 02, 2013, 12:32:31 AM

Quote from: http://garzikrants.blogspot.com/2013/01/avalon-asic-miner-review.html

The miner is currently running on an already loaded residential house power circuit, while sharing a Back UPS ES 550 with another desktop machine.

If I were you, I would plug it right into the grid, or into a UPS that outputs true sine wave AC.

An APC Back UPS ES outputs nasty noisy square wave AC that isn't real good for things. I wouldn't run a computer on one myself, much less a rare and expensive ASIC miner.

I also would not trust the power measurement taken by a kill-a-watt with it plugged in through that UPS.

agreed.

also, i think its fair to see that the PSU efficiency isnt a necessary factor in the announced power use. When you say a 7970 draws 400w, do you account for the PSU efficiency? its a fairly uncommon testing value.

should be 3*[power per board]+[control board]+[fan power] to identify the system draw. PSU issues can be fixed if the end-user feels like paying for a better PSU

kano

legendary

Activity: 4466

Merit: 1798

Linux since 1997 RedHat 4

Somewhat OT but directed at comments above:
I will have an r-pi B very soon.
The person supplying it has been having USB testing done without the USB problems being reported - due to his work on it.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1489596

My current cgminer BFL USB code (the USB code is not in the Avalon) uses only a few CPU seconds per hour on my 3.6GHz desktop with 1 BFL FPGA, Stratum mining at 8 difficulty on OzCoin
This code isn't in the Avalon - so no idea how well they scale or how much CPU they a;ready use.
(as we all know - they didn't deal with ckolivas or myself doing the code and thus the Avalon code doesn't include the new upcoming features of cgminer that anyone can already get and use - it's open source and in my git)

5.5 hours runtime (top output) yeah it really isn't using much RAM there either:
4080 root 20 0 1498m 4220 2628 S 0.3 0.0 0:13.81 cgminer-2104n

Bogart

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1000

Quote from: http://garzikrants.blogspot.com/2013/01/avalon-asic-miner-review.html

The miner is currently running on an already loaded residential house power circuit, while sharing a Back UPS ES 550 with another desktop machine.

If I were you, I would plug it right into the grid, or into a UPS that outputs true sine wave AC.

An APC Back UPS ES outputs nasty noisy square wave AC that isn't real good for things. I wouldn't run a computer on one myself, much less a rare and expensive ASIC miner.

I also would not trust the power measurement taken by a kill-a-watt with it plugged in through that UPS.

Sitarow

legendary

Activity: 1792

Merit: 1047

Quote from: ngzhang on February 01, 2013, 11:48:31 PM

Quote from: regular on February 01, 2013, 11:23:43 PM

thanks for clearing that up ngzhang.

Makes sense as it's a stand alone unit. When quoting BFL's numbers, no one includes the PC it's hooked up to either.

No, I think it's nothing to do with the host PC.

To power the chips, we must convert 220vAC to 1.2v DC. And we must shift all heat out. This process cause power loses.

Any system needs to pay these extra power, including BFL.

So please do not use an " announced " chip power consumption number to compare with a full system power consumption number, it's meaning less.

Do you know the power draw per unit @ 1.2v DC?

Thanks!

MrTeal

legendary

Activity: 1274

Merit: 1004

Quote from: galambo on February 01, 2013, 11:54:35 PM

Quote from: Nemesis on February 01, 2013, 11:48:23 PM

Did I tell you to shut up?

BFL can plug into a OpenWRT device LIKE one in AVALON. Even an Android phone would work.

Your question is does Raspberry Pi gonna have enough bandwidth as a host? Fck yes, it also shows you know crap about this.

Avalon engineered the OpenWRT solution to work effectively.

I don't know what they had to do to make that happen, but I know that you can get away with using a low computer power single purpose device if well engineered to the application.

Everyone in this thread seems to be suggesting the end consumer should slap some 5W toy device called a "Raspberry Pi" into their BFL miner. My experience tells me this is not a real solution.

What operating system and mining software should they install on it? What optimizations should they perform on the OS build to ensure the bitcoin miner is not interrupted by other processes?

If BFL isn't going to provide a mining controller, then most users will end up using a real computer, not a "Raspberry Pi." You should be more realistic.

While that is true, it's also true that most miners probably won't be connecting a computer to each of their Singles. You might have to add 20W for a laptop/netbook or 80W for a PC to power the SC Single, but for anyone looking to run 2 or 4, that becomes less of an issue.

ngzhang, what power supply will all of the V2 units ship with, and will it be capable of actually running 6 modules?

darkip

full member

Activity: 160

Merit: 100

Quote from: galambo on February 01, 2013, 11:54:35 PM

Everyone in this thread seems to be suggesting the end consumer should slap some 5W toy device called a "Raspberry Pi" into their BFL miner.

BFL themselves have said they'll support Android as a host.

Guess what processor is in your Android phone? An ARM. Guess what processor is in the Raspberry Pi? An ARM.

Topic: Avalon ASIC users thread - page 218. (Read 438335 times)