Topic: [BBR] Boolberry: Privacy and Security - Guaranteed Since 2014 - page 341. (Read 1210783 times)

Thanks for answer, I definitely feel more comfortable with cryptonote than with scrypt, x11 etc


It does- see http://boolberry.org/files/Boolberry_Reduces_Blockchain_Bloat.pdf
XMR blockchain size is not quite a trainwreck waiting to happen, all of these cryptonote coins will have some scaling issues due to their nature.
XMR have fixed some issues early on reducing bloat from pools, but it's designed in a different manner to boolberry that doesn't allow them to do what BBR is doing, they are moving to embedded db instead

There are other things to consider too, personally I think XMR emission is more poorly thought out, unfairly rewarding early users too much. Of course for now early adopters will be happy for this but I think that can bite them in the foot a little later.

Good news.

We now have nice installer for Windows.
http://boolberry.com/downloads.html

XMR not big success yet
My point is, does BBR have an advantage about blockchain size? If so, what is the advantage. Communicate this. If XMR blockchain size is a trainwreck waiting to happen, then people will seek alternatives. If it isnt, then BBR has no big advantage over XMR

I do have an idea for a totally different way of implementing Keccak on GPU than what's been done so far; dunno if it'll work, though, or if it'll be faster if it does.

Quazar and Fantom coin got listed on hitbtc. It seems like a perspective exchange and BBR should be listed there. Voting is on https://hitbtc.com/vote
They seem to have soft hart for CryptoNotes

EDIT: Maybe i spoke too soon, was not aware about the yet unexplained incident at hitbtc from few days ago

I agree with you. I was just disagreeing with the "wait for it to break on 32 bit." That's already happened. In fact what is going to happen in the future is not that it will break, but that 32 bit will get fixed by the switch to a database.

Interpreting "10x lower cost" as "on the same hardware" - almost zero.  I won't say zero, but almost zero.  I've tried hard - really hard - to find some kind of 10x trick in Wild Keccak and haven't.  That's no guarantee that there's not one, but I'd be surprised if someone could do *that* much better.  (My own efforts resulted in a CPU miner that's about the same as what wolf and otila did, and the code is nearly identical).  1.3x?  I'd believe it in a heartbeat.

The weird thing is that BBR is still almost-profitable on AWS if you have GPU and CPU miners running that are in the same range as wolf0's but tuned to the AWS hardware.  It's not a great choice CPU, but it's still a great choice GPU.  But it's at that level of profitability where it can go from profitable to a loss very easily with some diff/market shifts.  If you own the hardware, though, it's great (I'm running it on 23 GPUs and need to see what I can learn from wolf's new release. :-).

This suggests to me that what was really going on was that the technical barrier to entry was too high - most BBR mining was still solo, the pool miners weren't quite as good as the solo ones, and so if someone with a large enough farm decided to own things, they'd have been able to control a pretty large fraction of the mining, in a reasonably profitable way.  It's not normal for a coin to be AWS-profitable, really, so from that I conclude that something else is preventing lots of people from jumping in and mining it.  I think it's the challenge of solo mining.

To put it in perspective - I launched 400 MH/s on AWS last week to see if I could sneak in some mining when the diff looked good.  It cost me $28/hour -- and was 1/5th the total hash of the network.  I decided it wasn't worth it (I think that I ended up earning about $20 for way too much heartburn of managing nodes), but it was entirely possible.  If I were trying to spend USD to buy BBR, that's what I'd do instead of buying it on the market.

XMR is currently successful in speculation, no one is using it for daily payments. It may be less successful when average Joe does try to use it on his average comp.

Current bitcoin-size might work. Bitcoin size at the point when it became feasible to develop Bitcoin ASICs clearly will not work since the efficiency gain will be much much smaller.

You're not getting it. Monero does not work with 32 bit Windows and has not worked for months. A few people have complained about it, they have tried PAE and reported that it doesn't work. The only workaround that has been reported to work is migrating their wallet to a 64 bit OS.

XMR has succeeded despite not working on 32 bit Windows, so waiting for it to break on 32 bit Windows is clearly not going to help. Exceeding a 4 GB magic number won't matter on 64 bit Windows (though generally increasing RAM usage is a gradual issue), plus there will be a database implemented by that time anyway.

Here is a scenario.
What if the crazy miner and financial attacker are the same guy(s)?
So, long time bitcoin guys have lots of hardware over the years, probably GPU farm that is not useful for bitcoin and its all incremental revenues anyway as enough profits generated to pay for all the hardware. So, if your only cost was electricity and you want to mine something and dump, it really costs nothing out of pocket.

Maybe this setup was there from early days so hundreds of thousands of BBR in this group's control. always seemed to have a lot of hashpower on BBR that wasnt really known where it was.

Based on illogical market behavior, I am leaning to this theory.

James

Based on your expertise, what are the odds that some private miner is able to mine at 10x lower cost?
Short of access to massive amounts of free hardware, assuming it has to be paid for

SRAM will be cost-prohibitive unless Moore's law continues for another two decades, which pretty much would shock the daylights out of everybody.  The growth in the scratchpad is linear, which means it will be beaten eventually by the exponential growth in hardware, but its linear rate is fast right now, so it's rapidly growing to exceed what will affordably fit on chip.

Agreed re time/memory tradeoff.  It's pretty solid in that regard as far as I was able to tell.

And exactly re Pascal, and if you believe the rumors, the 2015 edition of Intel's Haswell.  It's tricky stuff.  It could be exactly the trick for the cryptonotes in the long run, but it still won't *eliminate* the latency / bandwidth limits to DRAM, just improve them a lot.

I'm pretty comfortable with both cryptonight (XMR) and wild keccak (BBR).  The GPU result on them both has played out about as expected, and barring cryptographic attacks that're beyond my level of sophistication, they should do about the same ASIC-wise -- some advantage, but not monstrous, to the point where I hesitate to guess whether or not it would be cost-effective to design one unless the scale became bitcoin-size.

 gee, some crazy guy just cleared the sell side of the orderbooks to .00045
cost me a whopping 1.5 BTC
when you can move the price 50%+ with such small amounts you cannot believe the price you see unless it is backed by big volumes

so this could be action not from "crazy miner", but rather "evil competitor" who just sells some relatively small amounts and lower and lower prices. How much did the sustained selling cost the daily dumper? Maybe 50 BTC at most. Small price to pay if you can kill off a competitive coin that has better tech.

Now it will cost 30 BTC just to get past my walls and curiously there was no daily dump into it, so now that the cost is increasing a lot for this financial attack, BBR can be restored to its rightful place.

Now, there is only 36 BTC on the buy side and 30 BTC is from me. So, all the people that say they arent technical or cant do websites to help, just put a bid in on polo. Any price near the market is good. The more it costs the daily dumper to move the price, the less likely he is to dump. After all how many coins can he possibly have?

The whole theory that this is a crazy miner just doesnt make sense to me. Maybe amazon cloud is finding coins using private miner but 10 times cheaper? highly doubtful. This is why I have this theory and i am testing with 30 BTC. So, if this wall is not touched we are nearly convinced it is not a crazy miner. I already have plenty of BBR so I will not be moving my bids higher, if anything I will start lowering it, so if it is crazy miner, you better fill the bids before I start lowering the price

James

I know pretty much nothing about mining or harware, as I understand (perhaps incorrectly) SRAM will be cost prohibitive for building wild keccak asic, nobody has publicly found any time-memory-tradeoff & stacked DRAM like you say will be present in consumer level hw like nvidia pascal and volta 1st meaning any asic builder will be wasting their time and $, anyway no reason for such a tiny market cap.



Great work!. Nice to see you release this publically.


No fundamental changes. It was never hyped and pumped to warrant such a dump in the first place.  I will join you and add some volume to the bid side too as well later, will give a routine dumper something more meaty to munch on, Kind of hope you get yours filled in the 0.002x range first though while we are below shit like applecoin, razorcoin, uro, billioncoin.. can't anticipate it staying below for long

yes, but 32 bits is 4 gb, so exceeding that creates even more issues
Is there objective analysis of the growth rate of XMR memory usage (not just compressed filesize but system RAM usage) based on time, tx vs. BBR?

And... this was when scratchpad was much smaller than now, so i guess your's miner is much faster. Great Job!