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Topic: Behaviours of gamblers you dislike. - page 7. (Read 2213 times)

legendary
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Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
September 19, 2023, 12:54:29 PM
You've hit on a few truths there, but let's not sugarcoat it. Some people  thinking they're smarter than the system. The key is: the house always has the edge. While I'm not here to hold anyone's hand, the idea of looking at gambling as a steady income is 100% stupid. But hey, if you can enjoy a game without going bankrupt, more power to you. For those who can't, a reality check is overdue. But really, find another way to make a living. Not everyone is meant for the gambling world
Those people are arrogant, they somehow believe that the math behind the games does not really apply to them, as if for some reason the odds of the games are going to change simply because they are the ones playing, and when that does not happen they refuse to accept the reality and blame the casino, their luck and anything and anyone they can, without ever admitting they are the main source of their problems, as their belief they can make money while gambling is not true.

It's there mentality though, they think that can have crack the code or something and thought  that they are smarter and win everytime they step up on the casinos. But after several tries, Lol, you can see on their face that their arrogant has gone and that they can't believed they lost and now starts the blaming game.

Yeah, seen this to several players, that I know and even don't know inside a casinos and you can see and tell that they have attitude. And even if you advise them, they will just give you that weird look, very arrogant.

Also, there are special cases though.
When someone is not only arrogant but there are other traits of personality which are even more toxic with combined with being arrogant.

Casinos must love arrogance and greed inside people, the greed drives people to gamble (the hope to get money easily), but greed can come and go, on the other hand someone showing arrogance won't accept to be defeated by the laws of possibilities and the casino. They will always come back and continue to empty their pockets for years, until they win something worth of bragging about.

One of the best qualities I can think of about a gambler is the one who does not cry about their losses and do not brag about their wins.

sr. member
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September 19, 2023, 11:59:23 AM
You've hit on a few truths there, but let's not sugarcoat it. Some people  thinking they're smarter than the system. The key is: the house always has the edge. While I'm not here to hold anyone's hand, the idea of looking at gambling as a steady income is 100% stupid. But hey, if you can enjoy a game without going bankrupt, more power to you. For those who can't, a reality check is overdue. But really, find another way to make a living. Not everyone is meant for the gambling world
Those people are arrogant, they somehow believe that the math behind the games does not really apply to them, as if for some reason the odds of the games are going to change simply because they are the ones playing, and when that does not happen they refuse to accept the reality and blame the casino, their luck and anything and anyone they can, without ever admitting they are the main source of their problems, as their belief they can make money while gambling is not true.
I wouldn't call that being arrogant, it's simply being a fool. Those people who think they can constantly beat the house and win and can be profitable throughout their gambling journey are either fools or out of their minds because gambling is a game of luck and there is no attitude or arrogance or anything that can make you win, even strategies don't work that people sometimes find helpful in recovering their losses because they get lucky.

Someone who might manage to recover their losses once or twice using a specific strategy in gambling is basically getting trapped, and once they are trapped, they will lose and try to recover their losses and then the house hits them with a very large loss streak and drain their entire balance in no time.

There's no really one solution fits all. There's no such thing as strategy that is applicable to everyone because every player has a different set of luck, circumstances, and skills. Doesn't mean that it worked for others, it will work for you too. And that's the harsh reality in life. Sometimes people are more blessed and more skillful than us that's why they get what they have now, and they totally deserve it anyway especially if they really worked hard to achieve that winning by practicing and researching.

One thing to learn for those people who are frequently envious of others achievements is to focus on your own success. It always takes a baby step in the beginning. Do not be fomo-ed and do not be swayed away by enticing offers to earn big quick or to get back what you lost. Always do a calculated bet and play. Analyze, execute, take profit.
hero member
Activity: 2464
Merit: 585
September 19, 2023, 11:06:26 AM
You've hit on a few truths there, but let's not sugarcoat it. Some people  thinking they're smarter than the system. The key is: the house always has the edge. While I'm not here to hold anyone's hand, the idea of looking at gambling as a steady income is 100% stupid. But hey, if you can enjoy a game without going bankrupt, more power to you. For those who can't, a reality check is overdue. But really, find another way to make a living. Not everyone is meant for the gambling world
Those people are arrogant, they somehow believe that the math behind the games does not really apply to them, as if for some reason the odds of the games are going to change simply because they are the ones playing, and when that does not happen they refuse to accept the reality and blame the casino, their luck and anything and anyone they can, without ever admitting they are the main source of their problems, as their belief they can make money while gambling is not true.
I wouldn't call that being arrogant, it's simply being a fool. Those people who think they can constantly beat the house and win and can be profitable throughout their gambling journey are either fools or out of their minds because gambling is a game of luck and there is no attitude or arrogance or anything that can make you win, even strategies don't work that people sometimes find helpful in recovering their losses because they get lucky.

Someone who might manage to recover their losses once or twice using a specific strategy in gambling is basically getting trapped, and once they are trapped, they will lose and try to recover their losses and then the house hits them with a very large loss streak and drain their entire balance in no time.
hero member
Activity: 2842
Merit: 772
September 16, 2023, 06:21:41 AM
You've hit on a few truths there, but let's not sugarcoat it. Some people  thinking they're smarter than the system. The key is: the house always has the edge. While I'm not here to hold anyone's hand, the idea of looking at gambling as a steady income is 100% stupid. But hey, if you can enjoy a game without going bankrupt, more power to you. For those who can't, a reality check is overdue. But really, find another way to make a living. Not everyone is meant for the gambling world
Those people are arrogant, they somehow believe that the math behind the games does not really apply to them, as if for some reason the odds of the games are going to change simply because they are the ones playing, and when that does not happen they refuse to accept the reality and blame the casino, their luck and anything and anyone they can, without ever admitting they are the main source of their problems, as their belief they can make money while gambling is not true.

It's there mentality though, they think that can have crack the code or something and thought  that they are smarter and win everytime they step up on the casinos. But after several tries, Lol, you can see on their face that their arrogant has gone and that they can't believed they lost and now starts the blaming game.

Yeah, seen this to several players, that I know and even don't know inside a casinos and you can see and tell that they have attitude. And even if you advise them, they will just give you that weird look, very arrogant.
hero member
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September 16, 2023, 05:45:36 AM
~snip~
If addiction already attacking that kind of things are really happening, for sure no one want that to happen but addiction really penetrated inside a person's mindset and instead of providing the needs of his family, he will choose to use the money to play and gamble, it harmed not just the gambler but it will mostly affect the family or the love ones that also relying with the gamblers money.

Tough to quit but it's needed as you will expect un-imaginable worse things that may happen if you will insist on continuing betting.
Yes, no one indeed wants that to happen, but when someone can't realize it, it can actually happen, and they won't even realize it. Those who only gamble and are already addicted to gambling will prefer to continue gambling and not support their families because that is not their main priority. And from there, we may often hear of divorce cases where gambling is the cause so that they can no longer maintain the integrity of their family. It will be detrimental to his family and will have an impact on his other families.

They must be truly aware that gambling addiction has taken its toll so that they can intend to cure it before their family is destroyed. They must find a way to cure their gambling addiction with people who still care about them so they can slowly leave gambling behind.
legendary
Activity: 2534
Merit: 1338
September 16, 2023, 12:08:06 AM
You've hit on a few truths there, but let's not sugarcoat it. Some people  thinking they're smarter than the system. The key is: the house always has the edge. While I'm not here to hold anyone's hand, the idea of looking at gambling as a steady income is 100% stupid. But hey, if you can enjoy a game without going bankrupt, more power to you. For those who can't, a reality check is overdue. But really, find another way to make a living. Not everyone is meant for the gambling world
Those people are arrogant, they somehow believe that the math behind the games does not really apply to them, as if for some reason the odds of the games are going to change simply because they are the ones playing, and when that does not happen they refuse to accept the reality and blame the casino, their luck and anything and anyone they can, without ever admitting they are the main source of their problems, as they believe they can make money while gambling and this is not true.
hero member
Activity: 1400
Merit: 911
September 15, 2023, 05:23:10 PM
After playing a multiple bet of probably 20 - 30 games, they will be following the game on Livescore or live soccer and be ticking them one after the other on their slip as the outcome they've chosen plays. I really find this very annoying because there's always a coupon code that one can type into the betting platform to reveal the outcome of the bet, and they don't necessarily need to stress themselves all in the name of following their games.
I think this happens also in my area, which is kind of annoying. Why can’t you just wait for all the matches to be played and know if you win or lose? Most of them will start checking the livescore to know the matches that have been played, and they will be ticking tickets to confirm if they have won all the matches that they picked and have been played. I just see that as a waste of time, and they are giving themselves unnecessary tension. Why can’t you just wait for the match to end and know if you win or lose?

Gambling is dangerous, everyone knows that and the individuals gambling are not infants,
Lots of people do say gambling is dangerous, but I don’t see anything bad in gambling. The only people that I think gambling will be dangerous to are addicted gamblers, and they are the cause. If you gamble for fun and with the amount you can afford to lose, then I don’t think gambling is dangerous. If you choose to make gambling dangerous, it will really be dangerous.
hero member
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better everyday ♥
September 15, 2023, 02:46:33 PM


They will chase a win meaning they need to win a game so that they can earn something. This is where the addiction starts. if you treat gambling as a source of income like work and earn on a daily basis. If you don't win that is where you play more and double your bet which is the sign you can't control yourselves. It will continue for a couple of days or even months and you will find out that you can't live a day without doing a gamble and what's worse you've lost a lot of money on it instead of earning.

Always think of gambling as fun and not a source of income no matter whether you win or lose just enjoy every bit of the game and make friends of it so that you won't be thinking about winning that round  if you think like that gambling can put food on your table daily then your wrong find a job.
You've hit on a few truths there, but let's not sugarcoat it. Some people  thinking they're smarter than the system. The key is: the house always has the edge. While I'm not here to hold anyone's hand, the idea of looking at gambling as a steady income is 100% stupid. But hey, if you can enjoy a game without going bankrupt, more power to you. For those who can't, a reality check is overdue. But really, find another way to make a living. Not everyone is meant for the gambling world
hero member
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September 15, 2023, 02:35:04 PM
What is the one behaviour you noticed in a gambler and  you dislike it? You don't need to have a reason for disliking it but you just do.
Gamblers who harm their families and do anything to get money to gamble again. gamblers who have a lot of debt and make their families suffer because they also carry this debt. Addicted gamblers, yes that's what they are. I hate them because they are unable to take responsibility for what they have taken and done.
Gamblers belonging to this category that you mentioned sucks, because they put their gambling activities first before their family and this will cause a damage in the family. Some of them end up staying alone because their loved ones have been disappointed in them due to their irresponsible gambling life.

Addiction is what can make one become an irresponsible gambler, and that is the only reason that will make one to put gambling first before their family, because they are busy hoping to win the next game very big. Unknown to them that it will only be a dream that might not come to reality.
sr. member
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Hhampuz is the best manager
September 15, 2023, 02:09:47 PM

"Next big win" can make you forget whats right, and many people fall into the loop you described: doubling down and pursuing losses. Balance is the key in betting, as in everything else. Being careful and self-aware can make it fun.

You're right; making it your main income is dangerous and typically leads to problems. There are other ways to generate money and flourish, and we should find what makes us happy. I agree with all you said. Gambling should be an enjoyable side dish, not the main.

Yes after w big win some gamblers think that they are too good in that game and they will bet and bet doubled or tripled Thier fist bet once they will win . And that's the reason why other gambler gall into addiction cause they cannot control Thier mind , they can't wait the right time. And that behavior will not be tolerated cause we all know that once it will take over in to the gambler then for sure addiction will follow.
hero member
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September 15, 2023, 01:50:53 PM
There are some gamblers who fail to control themselves after losing. Those gamblers try to blame others for their gambling failures. Some are anxious themselves, even if they don't directly blame themselves. As a result, they do not maintain good relations with family, friends and relatives. But not everyone does this. We can gamble but we should gamble with money such money that losing will not affect the personal life of the gambler. Only they should remember that winning and losing both are part of gambling so one should not expect only win they should ready for loss.
I always see gambling as fun but there are some people who choose to make money from gambling. Those who can control themselves while gambling can enjoy gambling. If money is lost while gambling then we should.  Abstain from gambling for some time. And if someone thinks that he will recover the money that has been lost and stop gambling, then he will do great stupidity. Because while gambling, one can never warm his head to take small wrong decisions.  Because all money is at risk so we have to be careful while gambling.
you see gambling as fun, you may not have suffered much from it yet. A smart person always keeps himself under control and because of this he is not serious about gambling. And they are able to protect themselves from the harmful effects of gambling.  People who play gambling regularly for source of income or for any other purpose without taking gambling as fun can no longer control themselves and become deeply addicted to gambling. So it is wise to use gambling only for fun purposes

They will chase a win meaning they need to win a game so that they can earn something. This is where the addiction starts. if you treat gambling as a source of income like work and earn on a daily basis. If you don't win that is where you play more and double your bet which is the sign you can't control yourselves. It will continue for a couple of days or even months and you will find out that you can't live a day without doing a gamble and what's worse you've lost a lot of money on it instead of earning.

Always think of gambling as fun and not a source of income no matter whether you win or lose just enjoy every bit of the game and make friends of it so that you won't be thinking about winning that round  if you think like that gambling can put food on your table daily then your wrong find a job.
"Next big win" can make you forget whats right, and many people fall into the loop you described: doubling down and pursuing losses. Balance is the key in betting, as in everything else. Being careful and self-aware can make it fun.

You're right; making it your main income is dangerous and typically leads to problems. There are other ways to generate money and flourish, and we should find what makes us happy. I agree with all you said. Gambling should be an enjoyable side dish, not the main.
legendary
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September 15, 2023, 12:48:47 PM
What is the one behaviour you noticed in a gambler and  you dislike it? You don't need to have a reason for disliking it but you just do.
Gamblers who harm their families and do anything to get money to gamble again. gamblers who have a lot of debt and make their families suffer because they also carry this debt. Addicted gamblers, yes that's what they are. I hate them because they are unable to take responsibility for what they have taken and done. But on the other hand, they continue to gamble and don't care about the risks they take. They always dream of winning extraordinary things but the reality is always the opposite. Even when they win and get a lot of money, the money will eventually be used again for gambling and lost again. Nothing will flow to their families. I really hate gamblers like this.
It seems that there are gamblers who do this to their families, so their families suffer because they don't have the money to meet their living needs. That is outrageous because he prioritizes gambling over his family, and that person should just be punished. We hate this attitude because he cannot be responsible for his family and prefers to gamble using money for his family. And it will get worse when they become addicted to gambling because they will need money while they don't have it every day. And maybe they would sell things in their house to have money to gamble.

If addiction already attacking that kind of things are really happening, for sure no one want that to happen but addiction really penetrated inside a person's mindset and instead of providing the needs of his family, he will choose to use the money to play and gamble, it harmed not just the gambler but it will mostly affect the family or the love ones that also relying with the gamblers money.

Tough to quit but it's needed as you will expect un-imaginable worse things that may happen if you will insist on continuing betting.
hero member
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September 15, 2023, 12:26:25 PM
There are some gamblers who fail to control themselves after losing. Those gamblers try to blame others for their gambling failures. Some are anxious themselves, even if they don't directly blame themselves. As a result, they do not maintain good relations with family, friends and relatives. But not everyone does this. We can gamble but we should gamble with money such money that losing will not affect the personal life of the gambler. Only they should remember that winning and losing both are part of gambling so one should not expect only win they should ready for loss.
I always see gambling as fun but there are some people who choose to make money from gambling. Those who can control themselves while gambling can enjoy gambling. If money is lost while gambling then we should.  Abstain from gambling for some time. And if someone thinks that he will recover the money that has been lost and stop gambling, then he will do great stupidity. Because while gambling, one can never warm his head to take small wrong decisions.  Because all money is at risk so we have to be careful while gambling.
you see gambling as fun, you may not have suffered much from it yet. A smart person always keeps himself under control and because of this he is not serious about gambling. And they are able to protect themselves from the harmful effects of gambling.  People who play gambling regularly for source of income or for any other purpose without taking gambling as fun can no longer control themselves and become deeply addicted to gambling. So it is wise to use gambling only for fun purposes

They will chase a win meaning they need to win a game so that they can earn something. This is where the addiction starts. if you treat gambling as a source of income like work and earn on a daily basis. If you don't win that is where you play more and double your bet which is the sign you can't control yourselves. It will continue for a couple of days or even months and you will find out that you can't live a day without doing a gamble and what's worse you've lost a lot of money on it instead of earning.

Always think of gambling as fun and not a source of income no matter whether you win or lose just enjoy every bit of the game and make friends of it so that you won't be thinking about winning that round  if you think like that gambling can put food on your table daily then your wrong find a job.
legendary
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September 15, 2023, 12:18:44 PM
I dislike any kind of gambler who does not know when to gamble and when to do other things as being addicted to it. Most gamblers spend all day gambling and sometimes they even get more loss than they win, I think some days are not favorable due to emotions or when a person is stressed but some gamblers omit such and still gamble.
Secondly those who sell there properties for the sake of gambling, this is the worst addiction a gambler can get into and the best way to go out of it is to seek help and advise from a therapist or anybody in a better position.

Well, to be honest, I think that for many players it is very difficult for them to play and apart from playing, well, it is profitable, because things are quite strong when it comes to how to play, because basically things when it comes to how to win more More than losing I find it difficult, I think that more than 98% of the players in the casinos lose, and that small percentage is the one that "I" believe is the one that wins, because it is very difficult to do it, apart from if We make a comparison or rather an analogy with respect to trading, in trading it is 95% of those who lose and the other 5% are those who win, so I could say that things are like that, of course it is my way of thinking. see him.

An addicted gambler doesn't care if he loses so much, because if he loses it's not the problem, the problem with an addict is that he can do inappropriate things, such as stealing, staying away from friends or family, that he becomes indebted due to having thoughts of kill yourself, things in addictions are like that, and what has to do with casinos is like that, you can't do anything other than assume when you lose and that's it, but what an addict does is look for money in any way possible so that he can You face the need to play and you get into a lot of enormous problems, and it is not good to lend money, to compromise with people who cannot pay the money, that is what basically is bad business.

Players who play and win can be very lucky, those who play and lose, well, I would say that it is normal to lose when playing in a casino, you have to consider the game as a natural thing for that to happen, I would say that people who do whatever it takes to play, and lose but don't get into trouble, that's what I would say is fine, however a person who loses all the time, but who manages his balance and knows that the game It is something about losing and sometimes having lucky breaks, well it is not bad, losing while playing in a casino is normal.
hero member
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September 15, 2023, 12:09:19 PM
There are some gamblers who fail to control themselves after losing. Those gamblers try to blame others for their gambling failures. Some are anxious themselves, even if they don't directly blame themselves. As a result, they do not maintain good relations with family, friends and relatives. But not everyone does this. We can gamble but we should gamble with money such money that losing will not affect the personal life of the gambler. Only they should remember that winning and losing both are part of gambling so one should not expect only win they should ready for loss.
I always see gambling as fun but there are some people who choose to make money from gambling. Those who can control themselves while gambling can enjoy gambling. If money is lost while gambling then we should.  Abstain from gambling for some time. And if someone thinks that he will recover the money that has been lost and stop gambling, then he will do great stupidity. Because while gambling, one can never warm his head to take small wrong decisions.  Because all money is at risk so we have to be careful while gambling.
you see gambling as fun, you may not have suffered much from it yet. A smart person always keeps himself under control and because of this he is not serious about gambling. And they are able to protect themselves from the harmful effects of gambling.  People who play gambling regularly for source of income or for any other purpose without taking gambling as fun can no longer control themselves and become deeply addicted to gambling. So it is wise to use gambling only for fun purposes
hero member
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September 15, 2023, 11:23:56 AM
It seems that the average gambler always complains about his losses and failures, while some of them will also keep quiet so that people don't embarrass them. Most gamblers feel proud of their wins, but honestly I don't like it when they don't appreciate their wins and don't stop after winning.
That's always the case, we're used to being proud of our winnings but very shy to share our losses and that's a normal thing. But what's toxic and annoying is when someone who keeps on losing tries to find his fault to the others. To the point that they'll mad without any reason but just want to release the frustration that they've got for that day and that's a behavior that I dislike and for sure that others will oblige and going to agree as well with that.
hero member
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September 15, 2023, 11:10:02 AM
it is dangerous because there are many reasons why gambling can injure someone's emotions or mentality. We are in a virtual world and gambling is done online, it is indeed simpler and easier to gamble, but when gambling is not healthy enough and causes a lot of losses, people who lose will become more stressed and become too addicted.  they have to know what the risks are in gambling, they have to read the ToS first before gambling and there is no protest about losses that occur. Having 3 wins and stopping would be good advice to avoid losing, but will the system give you that winning streak? That would be unpredictable luck.
It's normal to see a gambler 3 win streaks, just like how suffered from 10 lose streaks.

However gambling is always losing, I don't understand why someone want to start their journey in gambling but they can't accept they will lose and the casino will win? casino isn't a charity.

I think if someone is become a gambling addict, it's just his own fault.
hero member
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September 15, 2023, 11:02:04 AM

Some other things I don't like about gamblers are; if they gamble with borrowed money. I think it's a shame for them, obviously because they won't really be able to pay back the loan because the risk of losing is greater than the chance of winning. This is about story of my friend's, of course he has gambled in a bad way where he has continuously gambled with borrowed money and so far they have run away from reality to pay their debts.
Yes, it's true, I also don't like behavior like that, there are quite a few gambler who playing using borrowed money and even sell their valuables just to chase win.
There are many gambler who are not aware of the impact that will occur if they continue to gamble when they cannot control themselves and their emotion because it is not only themselves who will suffer losses, their family will also be affected.
I really understand why many people do not like gambling because gambling will have a bad impact on society.
hero member
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September 15, 2023, 10:55:50 AM
What is the one behaviour you noticed in a gambler and  you dislike it? You don't need to have a reason for disliking it but you just do.
Gamblers who harm their families and do anything to get money to gamble again. gamblers who have a lot of debt and make their families suffer because they also carry this debt. Addicted gamblers, yes that's what they are. I hate them because they are unable to take responsibility for what they have taken and done. But on the other hand, they continue to gamble and don't care about the risks they take. They always dream of winning extraordinary things but the reality is always the opposite. Even when they win and get a lot of money, the money will eventually be used again for gambling and lost again. Nothing will flow to their families. I really hate gamblers like this.
It seems that there are gamblers who do this to their families, so their families suffer because they don't have the money to meet their living needs. That is outrageous because he prioritizes gambling over his family, and that person should just be punished. We hate this attitude because he cannot be responsible for his family and prefers to gamble using money for his family. And it will get worse when they become addicted to gambling because they will need money while they don't have it every day. And maybe they would sell things in their house to have money to gamble.
hero member
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September 15, 2023, 05:53:16 AM
There is no other reason than having to accept the nature of gamblers like that and it arises naturally when a gambler loses or wins and almost gamblers have experienced this problem and when they win they show it off in various media, it won't be a problem as long as it doesn't bother other people.
Unless it really very serious, for example a gambler is rude to another gambler when he loses and you need to think again about not liking that and yes I admit I don't like that kind of behavior either but I am just trying to understand their situation.
There's numerous behaviors in the system which I disliked. Gambling is dangerous, everyone knows that and the individuals gambling are not infants, the know what they're getting themselves into before signing up for gambling. Transferring aggression to another gambler, out of the picture because he's definitely not the cause of your problem or losses, instead we should attempt to explore more options that would bring out the best results the system got to offered. Furthermore, if we try wagering more than three times and we keep having the same results, we should quit and wait for another opportunity next day.

it is dangerous because there are many reasons why gambling can injure someone's emotions or mentality. We are in a virtual world and gambling is done online, it is indeed simpler and easier to gamble, but when gambling is not healthy enough and causes a lot of losses, people who lose will become more stressed and become too addicted.  they have to know what the risks are in gambling, they have to read the ToS first before gambling and there is no protest about losses that occur. Having 3 wins and stopping would be good advice to avoid losing, but will the system give you that winning streak? That would be unpredictable luck.

Yes it is and indeed these days online-based gambling seems to have become commonplace and more and more people are getting into it, maybe because it is very easy to reach so they have no obstacles to doing it. As in my country now online gambling offenders are increasing and more and more crime cases are occurring, none other than that because of the impact of gambling. As you said this activity can really disturb someone mentally and psychologically and because of that it is very possible that they end up doing something out of control such as stealing or any crime. Obviously it is very dangerous indeed. Well that's very true my friend, it should be like that, on average they come only know about winning but don't ask at all about what risks are there.

Yes I quite agree, as we know there must be a lot of defeats first if we want to get a victory, and if we already get it it's better to stop, don't continue because it's very likely you will lose again there, and it will be in vain. But if you can't stop then you have to emphasize stronger self-control, you must be able to withstand the temptations that come, because yes, gambling is just for fun. There is absolutely no winning streak, it's just their assumptions that are excessive.
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