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Topic: BetcoinCasino.com-Betcoin.ag-DICE - 100% Bonus!480 BTC jackpots (Read 52709 times)

hero member
Activity: 528
Merit: 500
DON'T USE BETCOINSPORTS:

They cancelled my wagers:
http://betcoinsports.com/ShareTicket/?ticketid=420320
http://betcoinsports.com/ShareTicket/?ticketid=422080

Claiming "WRONG ODDS PROVIDED"... These odds were available on their site all week, yet the bets were only cancelled after the market moved heavily in my favor. I wonder, when pinnacle opens these markets tomorrow, and Lyon gaming is favored versus The Chiefs, will that wager be cancelled too? What if the market moves in your favor? Are those odds then not "wrong"? You can't pick and choose which bets you want to accept after the market reacts. Thieves!


What odds did pinnacle offer at that time??  Maybe they have huge gap? Generally the odds maybe too high so to avoid arbitrage they cancelled the odds.

None of these games were available on pinnacle when I placed the bets. This is a weeklong event and pinnacle is only opening betting for each game on the same day it will be played. I placed these bets days in advance, and only after pinnacle opened with odds much more in my favor, did betcoin cancel half of my bets (the winning ones).
What lead you to play at the Betcoin scam? There is a ton of warnings out here...

Betcoin has shown several times that they can do whatever they like, and this is because they operate anonymously.

Just talk to support everyday, i used this way to retrieve my money there, I lost a bet but the odds was wrong, like you said, they wouldn't delete the bet if you have -ev. Only delete you have +ev
legendary
Activity: 2716
Merit: 2093
Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!
From when you placed the bets to bet cancellation, how much time went by?

Is this ajundftd?
newbie
Activity: 3
Merit: 0


Maybe pinnacle doesn't have the odds is the reason they cancelled your bet, btw, did they cancel before the game or cancel after you won the bets?

Hvae you contacted the support? Let them pay you. Grin

They have another odds provider for esports in addition to pinnacle, which is where these odds came from. I don't know when the bets were cancelled, regardless it's not acceptable for them to cancel only the bets I placed which showed to have +EV after pinnacle opened, and keep the rest. If I had bet on the other (-EV) side of the "bad odds", would they cancel the bet? Unlikely. I did email support, we'll see if they have any excuse. Roll Eyes
hero member
Activity: 528
Merit: 500
DON'T USE BETCOINSPORTS:

They cancelled my wagers:
http://betcoinsports.com/ShareTicket/?ticketid=420320
http://betcoinsports.com/ShareTicket/?ticketid=422080

Claiming "WRONG ODDS PROVIDED"... These odds were available on their site all week, yet the bets were only cancelled after the market moved heavily in my favor. I wonder, when pinnacle opens these markets tomorrow, and Lyon gaming is favored versus The Chiefs, will that wager be cancelled too? What if the market moves in your favor? Are those odds then not "wrong"? You can't pick and choose which bets you want to accept after the market reacts. Thieves!


What odds did pinnacle offer at that time??  Maybe they have huge gap? Generally the odds maybe too high so to avoid arbitrage they cancelled the odds.

None of these games were available on pinnacle when I placed the bets. This is a weeklong event and pinnacle is only opening betting for each game on the same day it will be played. I placed these bets days in advance, and only after pinnacle opened with odds much more in my favor, did betcoin cancel half of my bets (the winning ones).

Maybe pinnacle doesn't have the odds is the reason they cancelled your bet, btw, did they cancel before the game or cancel after you won the bets?

Hvae you contacted the support? Let them pay you. Grin
newbie
Activity: 3
Merit: 0
DON'T USE BETCOINSPORTS:

They cancelled my wagers:
http://betcoinsports.com/ShareTicket/?ticketid=420320
http://betcoinsports.com/ShareTicket/?ticketid=422080

Claiming "WRONG ODDS PROVIDED"... These odds were available on their site all week, yet the bets were only cancelled after the market moved heavily in my favor. I wonder, when pinnacle opens these markets tomorrow, and Lyon gaming is favored versus The Chiefs, will that wager be cancelled too? What if the market moves in your favor? Are those odds then not "wrong"? You can't pick and choose which bets you want to accept after the market reacts. Thieves!


What odds did pinnacle offer at that time??  Maybe they have huge gap? Generally the odds maybe too high so to avoid arbitrage they cancelled the odds.

None of these games were available on pinnacle when I placed the bets. This is a weeklong event and pinnacle is only opening betting for each game on the same day it will be played. I placed these bets days in advance, and only after pinnacle opened with odds much more in my favor, did betcoin cancel half of my bets (the winning ones).
newbie
Activity: 25
Merit: 0
DON'T USE BETCOINSPORTS:

They cancelled my wagers:
http://betcoinsports.com/ShareTicket/?ticketid=420320
http://betcoinsports.com/ShareTicket/?ticketid=422080

Claiming "WRONG ODDS PROVIDED"... These odds were available on their site all week, yet the bets were only cancelled after the market moved heavily in my favor. I wonder, when pinnacle opens these markets tomorrow, and Lyon gaming is favored versus The Chiefs, will that wager be cancelled too? What if the market moves in your favor? Are those odds then not "wrong"? You can't pick and choose which bets you want to accept after the market reacts. Thieves!


What odds did pinnacle offer at that time??  Maybe they have huge gap? Generally the odds maybe too high so to avoid arbitrage they cancelled the odds.
newbie
Activity: 3
Merit: 0
DON'T USE BETCOINSPORTS:

They cancelled my wagers:
http://betcoinsports.com/ShareTicket/?ticketid=420320
http://betcoinsports.com/ShareTicket/?ticketid=422080

Claiming "WRONG ODDS PROVIDED"... These odds were available on their site all week, yet the bets were only cancelled after the market moved heavily in my favor. I wonder, when pinnacle opens these markets tomorrow, and Lyon gaming is favored versus The Chiefs, will that wager be cancelled too? What if the market moves in your favor? Are those odds then not "wrong"? You can't pick and choose which bets you want to accept after the market reacts. Thieves!

legendary
Activity: 3780
Merit: 1108
Betcoin.ag Forum Rep - Sportsbook, Casino
Never played any casino games online but going to try this one out.

Hope it would be lucky for me Cheesy

gl betcoin.ag

Thank you Robo and good luck to you!
newbie
Activity: 20
Merit: 0
I don't get any VIP reward box nowadays, is it normal? Or you cut that feature for us?   Huh
newbie
Activity: 22
Merit: 0
Your statement that Betcoin has to hide the operator because they serve Americans is bs or nonsense or however you call it.

Er... ooooookkkkaaaaay

/backs away quietly, hands raised, no sudden movements...

Quote
I know a lot more than you and stating things that have nothing to do with the reality is no help at all!

Yep. I agree, you're clearly a fountain of knowledge in this area.

/shuffles away some more...
hero member
Activity: 882
Merit: 528
Never played any casino games online but going to try this one out.

Hope it would be lucky for me Cheesy

gl betcoin.ag
newbie
Activity: 22
Merit: 0
 Roll Eyes

Quote
You do not have to funnel Bitcoin transactions through a registered company, as it is a decentralized and anonymous system. Furthermore, Bitcoins are in many jurisdictions not considered as a currency and therefore no need to register a company in Hong Kong for tax evasion purposes.

How do you think that they are going to spend the Bitcoin that they fleece from players? Despite what Bitcoin evangelists would like to believe we're not at the point where you can live on Bitcoin, and especially not when you're talking about large sums of cash. I guarantee you that they will be converting their Bitcoin to currency at some point. Seriously, you can't be that thick can you?

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Betcoin is in the business of offering gambling services to Americans, so they have been very careful to not reveal the associated company names.
Quote
Bs at its best!

First of all, the problem is not offering gambling services to Americans in non regulated states, the money transfer to and from gambling companies is prohibited.

Secondly, there are several companies licensed in Curacao and offer gambling services to Americans and also state the name of the operator and the license seal.

Thanks again for more evidence of your charming personality. What exactly is "BS" about saying that they accept business from Americans (true) and that they have been very careful to not reveal the associated company names (again true)? It is the exact opposite of "BS". Do you even know what the word means?

Don't presume to lecture me about online gambling laws in the USA. I'm pretty sure that I have far more experience in this area and know more about it than you do. Legal arguments that vary from state to state aside, no unlicensed operator that accepts money from Americans for gambling wants their details known to the U.S. government who have shown their willingness time and again to aggressively pursue operators irrespective of the laws.

Sure there are "several" companies that license in Curacao and reveal a company name, usually an untraceable shelf company with offshore directors, but so what? By your own admission, there are many others that don't. What is your point?

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No. It is not an indication that betcoin.ag is hosted in Curacao! You can not host a gambling company in Curacao without having a license there.

That may or may not be the law but it is certainly not reality. There are countless sites that are hosted in Curacao without any kind of license. Many cite a license held by their software provider (eg Betsoft) but have no specific license of their own. Others are just plain unlicensed. Do you know the meaning of the word "indication"? I'll give you a hint: it is not a certainty.

Quote
The sole intent of the Curacao statement (there are no Terms of Service) and the Hong Kong statement about governed by bla bla, is to mislead potential and existing customers. They imply that betcoin.ag would be governed by authorities and that there would be a "legally binding agreement" with the possibility to claim and enforce your rights, while in reality there is nothing, zero point zero!

Whether they are or are not governed or subject to the laws of either country, or whether they are intending to mislead is irrelevant. Who are you going to sue? There is no company name, director's name, physical address, mailing address, phone number, or anything else that you can use to tie them to someone you could sue. So arguing about whether the statement is true or not is ultimately pointless. There is no way to sue them or take them to court at present so you need to find another way. Perhaps you could take Betsoft or Cloudflare to court and compel them to reveal the names of their clients?

You see, I am broadly agreeing with you in that their terms of service are legally unenforceable. I have seen the same thing countless times over a decade working in this industry. However you plainly think that you know a lot more than you actually do and calling what I say "BS" when I am trying to help you out is rude and counterproductive. I would hate to see how you speak to someone who disagrees with you.
hero member
Activity: 1344
Merit: 507
How could “These Agreements” be governed and interpreted in accordance with the laws of Hong Kong, while online gambling is not allowed in Hong Kong? Does this make sense?

It could be that the operators of Betcoin are channeling their funds through a Hong Kong registered company for tax evasion purposes. Companies registered there pay zero tax on income earned from outside Hong Kong. You are right that online gambling is illegal there so they would be laundering money first by passing it through intermediary companies or payment processors which are all outside HK. If they are doing that it seems to me to be a pretty dumb thing to do to reveal that in their terms.
You do not have to funnel Bitcoin transactions through a registered company, as it is a decentralized and anonymous system. Furthermore, Bitcoins are in many jurisdictions not considered as a currency and therefore no need to register a company in Hong Kong for tax evasion purposes. Roll Eyes

If they would have a shell company in Curacao, then this would be sufficient enough to avoid tax payments.

Without stating the contract partners and the provably applicable jurisdiction, there are no juridical valid Terms of Service. Simply call their "Terms of Service" a fairy tale.


Is the company who operates Betcoin.ag incorporated in Curacao and holds a worthless Curacao eGaming license?

If this is the case, what is the name of the company? Why is the name of the operator not stated on their website?

If Betcoin.ag has a valid license, why do they not state the seal on their website?

Betcoin is in the business of offering gambling services to Americans, so they have been very careful to not reveal the associated company names.
Bs at its best!

First of all, the problem is not offering gambling services to Americans in non regulated states, the money transfer to and from gambling companies is prohibited.

Secondly, there are several companies licensed in Curacao and offer gambling services to Americans and also state the name of the operator and the license seal.


All through their terms they just refer to themselves by domain name as a proxy for "we", "the company", "us" etc. Their domains, owned by a Stephen Lee, have all other info privacy protected. The domains are routed through cloudflare which hides the server's IP address and location. They aren't going to give you a company name because the operator does not want to be found.
I understand perfectly that the operator does not want to be found. Cheesy


There are many, many online casinos that state that they are "licensed" by Curacao or Costa Rica or Belize or myriad other places when in fact they only own a shell company and host their website there. In many cases the jurisdictions (like Costa Rica) don't even issue licenses for operating an online gambling site. The Curacao statement in the terms is an indication that they are probably hosted there. As you say, Curacao eGaming does issue licenses but sites that have one almost alway display a linked seal on their website. I can't find one of those on Betcoin's site. As far as I can tell, Betcoin is not licensed to operate an online gambling site by anyone, anywhere.
No. It is not an indication that betcoin.ag is hosted in Curacao! You can not host a gambling company in Curacao without having a license there.

The sole intent of the Curacao statement (there are no Terms of Service) and the Hong Kong statement about governed by bla bla, is to mislead potential and existing customers. They imply that betcoin.ag would be governed by authorities and that there would be a "legally binding agreement" with the possibility to claim and enforce your rights, while in reality there is nothing, zero point zero!
newbie
Activity: 22
Merit: 0
How could “These Agreements” be governed and interpreted in accordance with the laws of Hong Kong, while online gambling is not allowed in Hong Kong? Does this make sense?

It could be that the operators of Betcoin are channeling their funds through a Hong Kong registered company for tax evasion purposes. Companies registered there pay zero tax on income earned from outside Hong Kong. You are right that online gambling is illegal there so they would be laundering money first by passing it through intermediary companies or payment processors which are all outside HK. If they are doing that it seems to me to be a pretty dumb thing to do to reveal that in their terms.

Quote
Is the company who operates Betcoin.ag incorporated in Curacao and holds a worthless Curacao eGaming license?

If this is the case, what is the name of the company? Why is the name of the operator not stated on their website?

If Betcoin.ag has a valid license, why do they not state the seal on their website?

Betcoin is in the business of offering gambling services to Americans, so they have been very careful to not reveal the associated company names. All through their terms they just refer to themselves by domain name as a proxy for "we", "the company", "us" etc. Their domains, owned by a Stephen Lee, have all other info privacy protected. The domains are routed through cloudflare which hides the server's IP address and location. They aren't going to give you a company name because the operator does not want to be found.

There are many, many online casinos that state that they are "licensed" by Curacao or Costa Rica or Belize or myriad other places when in fact they only own a shell company and host their website there. In many cases the jurisdictions (like Costa Rica) don't even issue licenses for operating an online gambling site. The Curacao statement in the terms is an indication that they are probably hosted there. As you say, Curacao eGaming does issue licenses but sites that have one almost alway display a linked seal on their website. I can't find one of those on Betcoin's site. As far as I can tell, Betcoin is not licensed to operate an online gambling site by anyone, anywhere.
newbie
Activity: 22
Merit: 0
Disclaimer: I'm not an expert in pirated games, so some of this post may be incorrect.

Are you saying that Betcoin was directly scamming it's customers
This depends on what house edge/RTP they advertised. If they advertised the correct RTP that was actually in the game, they didn't directly scam any customers. Pirated games are known for having a lower RTP though, compared to the official one because the pirates can edit the code safely.

or that Betcoin was taken in by low rent scammers and allowed them access to it's customers?
This is a probable case. They saw an opportunity to get good games for a cheap price, and probably a higher cut (since the RTP was probably lower than it should be) so they decided to let the scammers access it's customers.


Actually whatever RTP they did or did not advertise for those pirated games is meaningless. The servers they were run on were not under the control of Novomatic so they could have been doing anything on the back end. The games would not have been tested, audited, or provably fair, and in all likelihood were rigged against players. You think the crooks who pirate and reverse engineer these games take care to make sure everyone gets an absolutely fair game? So even if they said the RTP was the same as the genuine games, it would not be believable. And that is without even considering the intellectual property and licensing issues raised by using pirated and unauthorised games.

I've also found a number of shitty affiliate sites that are working with Betcoin that have outdated reviews claiming that Betcoin also offers Aristocrat games. They were also pirated because Aristocrat is a tightly regulated Australian company that doesn't offer its games to unlicensed casinos for BTC play.

Obviously Betcoin knows all this because they have quietly removed the games at some stage. They just forgot to clean up the evidence trail that shows that they were using them. When a company makes one small mistake you can look past it and forgive them but when they make this many mistakes of this magnitude, come on, you would have to be a fool to continue trusting them.

So it's safe to say that BEST CASE scenario, Betcoin is sloppy and has no regard for it's customers data, money, or safety.

Exactly, careless and incompetent at best. On the other hand someone not so generous could reasonably conclude that they are actively involved in ripping off their own customers.
hero member
Activity: 1344
Merit: 507
The Betcoin Casino Terms of Service https://www.betcoin.ag/support/betcoin-casino-terms-service are anyway not valid, because the contract partners and applicable jurisdiction is missing.
Betcoin.ag Scam!

Betcoin.ag Poker Terms of Service (TOS)

Quote
BetcoinPoker.com advises You to read all of these documents carefully as each forms part of the legally binding agreement between You and BetcoinPoker.com

-> It is juridical not possible to have a legally binding agreement with a domain name! Legally binding agreements are only possible between legal entities or private persons. The “Terms of Service” does also neither state the name of the operator nor a gambling license (if any exist), nothing!

-> False and misleading statements are the criminal offense of fraud!

Fraud Act 2016

2 Fraud by false representation

(1) A person is in breach of this section if he—

(a) dishonestly makes a false representation, and

(b) intends, by making the representation—

(i) to make a gain for himself or another, or

(ii) to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.

(2) A representation is false if—

(a) it is untrue or misleading, and

(b) the person making it knows that it is, or might be, untrue or misleading.

(3) “Representation” means any representation as to fact or law, including a representation as to the state of mind of—

(a) the person making the representation, or

(b) any other person.

(4) A representation may be express or implied.

(5) For the purposes of this section a representation may be regarded as made if it (or anything implying it) is submitted in any form to any system or device designed to receive, convey or respond to communications (with or without human intervention).


Betcoin.ag governed in Hong Kong or Curacao or Costa Rica or nowhere?

Quote
25. GOVERNING LAW

These Agreements shall be governed by and interpreted in accordance with the laws of Hong Kong. You irrevocably agree to submit to the exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of Curacao in The Netherlands Antilles for the settlement of any dispute or matters arising out of or concerning these Agreements or their enforceability.

Based on what shall the alleged agreements with Betcoin.ag be governed and interpreted in accordance with the laws of Hong Kong or Curacao?

How could “These Agreements” be governed and interpreted in accordance with the laws of Hong Kong, while online gambling is not allowed in Hong Kong? Does this make sense?

If the Betcoin.ag operation shall be governed by and interpreted in accordance with the laws of Hong Kong, why do you need to irrevocably agree to submit to the exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of Curacao?



Wait, Betcoin.ag scam Casino Terms of Service (TOS)

Quote
The Agreement and any matters relating hereto shall be governed by, and construed in accordance with the laws of Costa Rica. Each party irrevocably agrees that the relevant courts of Costa Rica shall have exclusive jurisdiction in relation to any claim, dispute or difference between them concerning the Agreement and any matter arising hereunder.

1, 2 or 3, you have to decide, 3 fields are free!

So where is it now? Hong Kong or Curacao or Costa Rica or nowhere?

Who is the operator of Betcoin.ag? Why is the name not stated on their website?

Do you feel comfortable to send your Bitcoins to something while you do not know who the operator is?

Here is a guy who won a huge Jackpot, but of course did not receive it:

BetSoft Non-Payment of Jackpot
legendary
Activity: 2030
Merit: 1189
Disclaimer: I'm not an expert in pirated games, so some of this post may be incorrect.

Are you saying that Betcoin was directly scamming it's customers
This depends on what house edge/RTP they advertised. If they advertised the correct RTP that was actually in the game, they didn't directly scam any customers. Pirated games are known for having a lower RTP though, compared to the official one because the pirates can edit the code safely.

or that Betcoin was taken in by low rent scammers and allowed them access to it's customers?
This is a probable case. They saw an opportunity to get good games for a cheap price, and probably a higher cut (since the RTP was probably lower than it should be) so they decided to let the scammers access it's customers.


So it's safe to say that BEST CASE scenario, Betcoin is sloppy and has no regard for it's customers data, money, or safety.
legendary
Activity: 2716
Merit: 2093
Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!
Disclaimer: I'm not an expert in pirated games, so some of this post may be incorrect.

Are you saying that Betcoin was directly scamming it's customers
This depends on what house edge/RTP they advertised. If they advertised the correct RTP that was actually in the game, they didn't directly scam any customers. Pirated games are known for having a lower RTP though, compared to the official one because the pirates can edit the code safely.

or that Betcoin was taken in by low rent scammers and allowed them access to it's customers?
This is a probable case. They saw an opportunity to get good games for a cheap price, and probably a higher cut (since the RTP was probably lower than it should be) so they decided to let the scammers access it's customers.

AFAIK Betcoin has never displayed a RTP on any of their games other than dice (which has been "under maintenance" for months")

I've made many posts about the lack of "RTP" and other information regulated providers offer, they have all been deleted.
legendary
Activity: 2772
Merit: 3284
Disclaimer: I'm not an expert in pirated games, so some of this post may be incorrect.

Are you saying that Betcoin was directly scamming it's customers
This depends on what house edge/RTP they advertised. If they advertised the correct RTP that was actually in the game, they didn't directly scam any customers. Pirated games are known for having a lower RTP though, compared to the official one because the pirates can edit the code safely.

or that Betcoin was taken in by low rent scammers and allowed them access to it's customers?
This is a probable case. They saw an opportunity to get good games for a cheap price, and probably a higher cut (since the RTP was probably lower than it should be) so they decided to let the scammers access it's customers.
legendary
Activity: 2030
Merit: 1189
I'm cross posting this from another thread over here as I think it is more evidence of Betcoin.ag's lack of professionalism and disregard for their own customers.

Hi folks. Thanks to Twitchyseal I was made aware of Betcoin's funny article about us (CasinoListings.com) that they wrote in an attempt to deflect from the bad publicity that their and Betsoft's actions have caused. After reading that and looking around their site I found this very interesting article that they published on October 9, 2014:

Quote
Book of Ra Deluxe Slot & 30 New Slots Added to BetcoinCasino.com Lineup

BetcoinCasino.com is excited to announced the inclusion of 31 new slots into the slot lineup at BetcoinCasino.com taking our total number of games available to over 200. The new games are headlined by one of the worlds most popular slots Book of Ra Deluxe.

The new games also include:

Sizzling Hot deluxe, Dolphin's Pearl Deluxe, Lucky Lady's Charm Deluxe, Lord of the Ocean Deluxe, Just Jewels Deluxe, Book of Ra, Columbus Deluxe, Dolphin Treasure, Queen of the Nile, Beetle Mania Deluxe, Dolphin's Pearl, 50 Dragons, Queen of the Nile II, Xtra Hot, 50 Lions, Power Stars, Geisha, Pelican Pete, Sun and Moon, Tiki Torch, Double Happiness, Lucky Count, Wild Panda, Miss Kitty

The new games are not a part of the bonus program for now, and are available for play by doing a transfer from your account. Simply, click on a game and then click Money Transfer. Transfer the specified funds and then you can play.

We are working to bring the most complete casino experience to you and appreciate any questions, suggestions and concerns that you may have.

But those games are not there anymore right? Right, because they were fakes. They were pirated games running on a server under the control of the pirates. Novomatic do not license their games to unregulated casinos, and they are currently not available anywhere for legitimate play in Bitcoin. Let me be clear - anywhere that you find a Novomatic game that is playable in BTC or mBTC, the game is a fake and you are being cheated.

If you ever played these games at Betcoin, you were cheated. If so you should be contacting the casino and demanding a refund for any losses incurred on them. I won't hold my breath waiting for them to give it to you.

This is very interesting, thanks for sharing.

Could you please clarify exactly what was going on with those slots though?  Are you saying that Betcoin was directly scamming it's customers, or that Betcoin was taken in by low rent scammers and allowed them access to it's customers?  Between those slots and the Betsoft scam is it safe to assume that any casino offering from Betcoin is unsafe and untrustworthy?
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