Topic: BetcoinPoker.com Betcoin.ag-Big Tourneys-BONUS-Freerolls, Ring Games, Real Poker (Read 367778 times)

Excellent feedback.  Many Bitcointalk members and staff have urged us to do this for months.  This thread is now closed. 

Here is our poker lobby when Betcoin Poker first launched just under 3 years ago, we have come a long way but there is still a long way to go.  Thank you everyone for your support:

Yeah Junko.

Good lookin out for all those people who play on Betcoin but don't care about Betcoins scummy behavior and also don't want to have to go to Betcoins website or forum or twitter to hear about any news or updates about Betcoin.

Scumbag.

Ok, now I know who you are and am pretty confident that you're not a paid shill or alt account of Xiao or Betcoin.
Can you really blame me for being suspicious?  I would be a fool not to be.  This is Betcoin we're talking about here.



Then we are on the same side.



Xiao has personally endorsed Betcoin for over 2 years now as a poker player and member of this community.  When there's any discussion about Bitcoin Poker, he pretends to be an impartial third party and makes posts like this one and this one.   He also has his own threads on multiple sites/subforums that he has been spamming only good things about Betcoin for years now.

He tries to gain trust by acting as if his "rakeback service" is motivated by his generosity and selfless desire to do good for Bitcoin and Online Poker as a whole.  He want's everyone to trust him and believe he is only promoting Betcoin because of how great they are not because of the amount of money he's made and stands to make in the future.  So he lies and tells people he barely makes any money from his players sports/casino action because they only play poker.

When I started posting the reality of Betcoin last year, (from the BBJP, to the missing VIP rewards to the over charged rake and constant lies) he handled it similar to how Betcoin did.  Ignore the situation.  If that doesn't work make the situation seem like really no big deal.  If that doesn't work lie about the situation and attack the credibility of whoever is complaining.

According to Xiao, I'm mentally ill, a retard, brain dead, a degenerate, a dos attacker, an "abuser of trust" (still dunno what he means there), and when other people complain about Betcoin - he there's a good chance he'll declare they are just me using alt accounts.  

He says all this stuff because he doesn't want people to believe what I say and he won't have a reasonable discussion about the issues for the same reason Betcoin won't.  There's no excuse for their behavior.  

Xiao and NiceSoft, over 2 years ago:

I would be in favor of a self-moderated thread for the reasons you mentioned. It would also make it easier for those of us who are already well aware (or not well aware, but don't care anyways) of all the issues regarding the site which people have concerns about to not have to scroll through all the same old stuff over and over and over again just to see if there are any new updates or news regarding the site and the games.

The campaign thread is so much more better and less cluttered ever since it became self-moderated. XiaoXiao's affiliate thread is much more useful and coherent for his rakers.

Allow those who feel the need to continuously remind everyone and keep people - new and old - aware of what they perceive to be egregious misdeeds and scammery by betcoin.ag to do so in their own threads as much as they want, to their heart's content. They have every right to do so, just as you have every right to create a new self-moderated thread.

It would also make it easier for those interested in the nefarious goings on of betcoin.ag to keep up to date on things or post their own updates and findings/evidence by checking out the thread(s) of those who wish to inform people of such things and not have to scroll through stuff they aren't interested in such as site updates, tourney info, affiliate offerings or shill posts. Their threads will be just as easily visible as yours for people who might be interested either way. A win for betcoin.ag, a win for betcoin haters and those with a personal agenda, a win for those wishing to keep the community informed of betcoin's bad behavior, a win for players, a win for prospective players, a win for all.

As far as your self-moddded thread not getting bumped as much, I think it would be fair to post anything you feel your customers would be interested in knowing, such as any important updates, promotions, significant/new tournaments, important dates, issues, player news, improvements, resolutions, etc just as you currently do now in addition to dealing with customer's issues, questions, grievances and feedback.

I think you should clarify what you consider spam and provide guidelines so players know is ok and not ok to post.

Many of your great players questions are ignored because you choose to ignore them.  Sometimes they just choose to accept that their question was ignored, other times they ask the question again.  And again. And again.  Thinking that maybe they will eventually receive an answer.


For example Dooglus posted this on April 7th at 1030 am:


That same day and the next, you posted 3 times in the same thread (this thread) :




Then Dooglus asked again for a response:



Do you consider the first post by Dooglus spam?

What about when he said "please respond".  Was that considered spam?

Are these the types of posts you would delete in your own self-moderated thread?

What one person considers spam might not be considered spam to someone else.  In the example above, many would consider Betcoin.ag to be the party guilty of spamming.

Do you consider this post I'm making right now spam?

We are contemplating a self moderated thread in order to more effectively address the issues of our great players as many questions are lost in the spam comments and remarks. 

On the the one hand it will allow us to focus on assisting players, but on the other our thread won't be bumped as much which always helps us attract more visitors. 

Any thoughts are appreciated. 

Betcoin Poker Bronze II 1 BTC Freeroll Results and Success!

On the 11th of September, 2016 Betcoin Poker hosted the Betcoin Poker Bronze II 1 BTC Freeroll and congratulates its winners led by sivait!

Next Sunday Betcoin Poker will host the Betcoin Poker Silver III 1 BTC Freeroll.

Good luck to everyone!

He is spamming everywhere to attract more new customers, although he earns plenty of money monthly, he is still greedy.

@Twitchy

Classic Twitchy. When someone has a different opinion than you, the person must be a shill for X or Y.

On Xiao.

If you think I am siding with Xiao, I have no side but only the poker players’ one.

I suggest you to read again the 1st part of my post where I suggest Betcoin to give other Affiliates the same deal as Xiao for Poker.
I suggest you to read as well my posts on the old Xiao BTCTalk thread.

All of your questions concerning Xiao’s personal deal have nothing to do with the poker players. It does not matter how much he has on Casino/Sportsbook, how much he makes and so on.

As I said once again in my post, players can be disappointed that he has no pull on Betcoin policies considering his special relationship. And I have been myself quite a critic towards him for that. But past that, you just have to treat him as your random poker affiliate.

What does it mean ? At the end of the day for the poker players the only question is: does this affiliate deliver on what he is offering ?
The Answer is: yes.

You can talk about the Ungod case, where Ungod said he was shorted by Xiao on his RB. But Ungod said publicly that his issue with Xiao has been resolved.
I can say that I have not been shorted on my RB by Xiao and the only times I had not the right amount it was a Betcoin issue (easy to prove: your rake * 5 = VIP Status points, if =/= then something is wrong).
That does not mean it is true for everyone, but like I said the only case I can think of is Ungod’s and he said himself that it was resolved.


On Betcoin.

I am “Vae Victis” there.
I have raised my voice in public on a lot of different Betcoin issues and I have even been censored on their forum for that.
I have nothing to prove and even less lessons to receive from you on that front.


On game-protect.

The guy is an obvious crook.
He is offering a poker player “protection” for money/affiliations: do you really think he is able to deliver it ?

The fact that you’re willing to softball this guy is mind-blowing.




@game-protect.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=50758305&postcount=3738

In before: “Player Protection (aka “game-protect’) is only giving his source (which happens to be his own affiliate site).”

By the way you did copy/paste the same post under your "real identity" on PFA.
http://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/showthread.php?13240-Curacao-License-1668-JAZ-gaming-company-owe-you-money&p=582453&viewfull=1#post582453



IHasTehNutz has spent countless hours on the Locke case but yeah, his hidden agenda is only to “bad mouth and attack Game Protect !”


Nothing curious about that. I said what I think of you in your own thread and I link the people one of my post about you so that people can have the context.

Why does it seem like you're intentionally overlooking the bullshit Xiao has spewed over tha past couple days?

You seem to be a Betcoin player, so you're most likely aware of all the bullshit they've pulled as well.  Why are you here defending them?  (or am I missing something?)

Why is games-protect getting all the hate?

Do you believe Betcoin is raking over 75 coin per month?  (Xiao says his sign ups alone have been)

Do you believe that Xiao doesn't make his income off sports/casino losses because his 500+ sign ups only play poker?

How do you feel about Xiao helping Betcoin to cover up the BBJP issue, the overcharging rake and underpaying rewards for months and countless other issues? 

How about Betcoin intentionally quoting fake skyped logs from Ajundftd of me "admitting" to ddos them?

@game-protect
I let people judge who has the best arguments by comparing our two posts.

I just want to pinpoint one affirmation of yours.
   
So you’re denying to be “Player Protection” on 2p2 ? That is a lie.
You’re only denying it because you want to circumvent 2p2 TOS and spam your affiliate link in all the posts you make under “Player Protection”.
Tough luck, 2p2 mods are onto you now:

Mike Haven (2p2 mod of the mods)
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=50760208&postcount=3739

Bobo Fett (2p2 mod)
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=50760419&postcount=3740

I suggest people to read the end of this thread on 2p2, it says a lot about what people think about “game-protect” aka “Player Protection” on the biggest international poker forum.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/internet-poker/lockpoker-payout-scam-cashout-report-via-player-data-year-long-waits-updated-frequently-1359432/  (starting #3738)

I understand that when affiliates steal from their players it's all of us, as a community, that need to come together and stand up for those players.

But please stop derailing this thread.  If you want to talk about your thievery we can do it in your thread, right?

You do understand that when some guy named "Game-protect" who claims to be the authority in the forums is spreading false information, showing totally incorrect math and assumptions, being someone that knows the truth, common sense says I should correct that?

Why is Xiao spamming this thread instead of posting in his own thread?  Seems like a horrible way to run a business.  Lots of shadiness. 

What did you get banned for?

(I assume I'm banned for life, not sure for what or how long though, they just ignore me)

Guess they consider me a much bigger problem than someone who has been habitually scamming poker sites and players for more than a decade.

hello betcoin support jonnyrocket here - ive sent many emails and tried to reach out to live chat this week no response.

I was told by Andrew that Sept 1st my account would be open.

our players club freeroll # 1 is tomorrow and i do not want to miss it!

please open access to jonnyrocket.

thanks, Dustin

LOL, what have false and misleading blatant lies to do with trust?  

You are from betcoin.ag and see the decreasing revenue numbers and now you are going tilt. That is fully understandable... LMAO

It is mathematically and juridically absolute correct to use the average numbers and as long as you do not put the real numbers on the table, I take that one:

1) Your referred players paid BTC75 rake in August

2) 33% fix from betcoin.ag in form of Xiaoxiao + 30% vip rakeback + 25% tablestarter = 88% in average + your countless too good to be true promotions, (do not know) maybe 12% in average = 100% rakeback in average!!!

3) From the BTC75 rake paid in August, betcoin.ag paid 100% back to players and made a 0% gross revenue

4) You received 40% commission of the BTC75 rake paid = 30 BTC

5) Your behaviour created a - 30 BTC LOSS in August for betcoin.ag

Are you finished with your gibberish and nonsensical clueless rant?

Ok here we go:

So many lies and nonsense in one post!

My calculation is perfect, because there are no exact numbers available and in my calculation are all the other promotions and freerolls and overlays and whatever not considered. So if the average for 58-133% would be more like 78%, it could be still around 95% if you add all the other additional promotions and overlays, surprise boxes and whatever.

Even if the players would receive "only" 78% rakeback in average, it would be still not sustainable and betcoin.ag has a loss every month!

While affiliate commissions are one part of the revenue stream of Game Protect to finance the legal proceedings against criminal online gaming operators, Game Protect is not just an affiliate. This is a blatant lie and has nothing to do with the reality!  

Xiaoxiao is also no affiliate, he is a criminal directly from betcoin.ag, because:

1) He is the only one who is able to offer this 58 -133% rakeback deal

2) Legitimate gambling companies would never pay up to 40% commission on the gross rake, while average rakeback is around 95%!

3) 58% rakeback is minimum when signing thru betcoin.ag and 133% maximum = 95,5% rakeback in average for the player.


If you are a publicly proven multiple scam, it does not matter if you have only one house affiliate or 100 external affiliates or pay a ton for signature and whatever promotion campaigns. Your business model is and will be always not sustainable and it can only run because you cheat your customers and use their deposits.


People complain about Xiaoxiao because he promotes a publicly peoven multi scam and not because they are jealous. He makes the most of it? He takes only 2-7% of his 40% commission and takes the most of it?  


As already explained, Betcoin.ag scam customers can not make business with Game Protect! If someone want to drive with 150 mph into a curve, then he can of course do this, but please without Game Protect.


Nice try to mislead the bitcointalk community, but no, brick and mortar casinos are in no way related to anonymous and criminal online casinos like betcoin.ag. These are two totally different pair of shoes.  


And no, Game Protect nowhere and never has stated that we can protect you from criminal online gambling operators. We can "only" try to claim and enforce your rights if something happened.


Yes, please go thru my posts and compare them with the blatant lies and nonsense criminals post here...


Game Protect has no account on 2+2.  


The link to the pokerfraudalert forum is to give potential victims the opportunity to read about the scams going on and already happened and do in no way indicate that Game Protect is anyhow related with it. You yourself already gave the explanation that Game Protect is in no way related to pokerfraudalert, because I did not receive a warm welcome there.  

Sorry to interfere into your affiliate war (yes, game-protect is just an affiliate even if he tries very hard to make people believe he is somethings else) and, as a player, stop the misinformations of the post above.

58% - 133% RB.
Let’s break it down. There are 3 components that could render a reward up to 133% RB.

33% RB coming from Xiao.

Reality: Indeed everyone under Xio get this flat RB. Sadly I might add, since it used to be higher.

For Flat RB  it is in the low end of what RB deals can offer in the industry but a lot of Sites once big enough did stop using affiliates altogether.
Still you can find same deals for networks where Traffic is incomparable way higher than Betcoin like  Microgaming . And way higher than that on Ipoker (even when taking into consideration their special system “SBR”).

Betcoin probably made a mistake by going all-in with only one affiliate – some might argue having affiliates is a mistake in itself, but when you are a new site it is often, if not necessary, at least the easiest way to gain some traction - and even now that Xiao has a normal deal it still prevents competitors to challenge him because before they generate the amount of BTCs necessary to reach the last tier of the affiliate scheme, they will not be able to offer their players the same amount as Xiao does.

It seems as well to stir-up a lot of hate / jealousy coming from various people towards Xiao.
In the end, Xiao makes the most of it – do not think it is fair to blame him for that, tho you can probably be a bit disappointed that he does not have the kind of leverage you might expect him to have from his special place – and Betcoin probably does suffer -their mistake in the first place- that their site would have probably gotten more exposure with a real competition among multiple affiliates.

The solution could be that Betcoin offers Top Tier Affiliate Scheme (40%) to others for Poker Only (for Casinos/Sportbooks they’d need to climb up the Scheme).

50% coming from the last VIP Status level.
Reality: no one reached yet such a status. So no one so far, is getting that amount or close to it from the VIP Status.

SWCpoker has the exact same type of VIP Scheme: you climb up for life and the top level rewards you of 50% RB.


50% from Table Starter Rakeback.
It is probably the most misunderstood component of it all.

It only benefits players that are willing to start games. And they are very few. Why ? Because most poker players like to play against weak opponents and when you have to start tables you cannot choose who you‘re playing against.
Generally, only the top players at their own stakes are willing to create action by opening tables and playing HU.
They are rewarded for that, as they should.


Game-protect wants you to believe that anyone benefits from that feature.
It cannot be further from the truth.
Let’s add to the fact that only few players are willing to use the feature, it is quite limited now both in time and in number at Betcoin. You have to play at least 1 hour straight and you are limited to 2 tables.


Game-protect wants you to believe that because on top of the VIP/RB you can get 50% more for TSR it is something unique and that is the proof that Betcoin is a Ponzi scheme.
Practices among the poker sites in the online world.
SWCpoker has the exact same feature, but is even better than Betcoin for the players: 50% not only for HU but as well for 3 handed play. No time limit and no table limit (but starting 4 handed you lose the benefit).

Notice that with the same reward for VIP and even with the lack of flat RB, depending on stakes/format SWCpoker is a cheaper place to play than Betcoin because of a rake way lower.

So SWCpoker is a Ponzi scheme as well ?

A lot of small online poker sites used prop players. Players that are paid to start tables and create action on the site.
Those deals are made under the coat. Is it not better that everyone willing to create action is getting rewarded for it ?

Practices in brick and mortar casinos.
Prop players came from the live background.

In multiple live casinos you either have prop players (it does costs live casinos money) or casinos that did opt for the same kind of offer than Betcoin/SWCpoker: rake free for HU /3handed [yep, 100%RB]. And you still get comps.
So are they losing money ? They’re just willing to pay small money to get game going and then rake it than having no game running at all.

Are live casinos Ponzi Schemes as well because of that ?


To anyone who wants to make business with game-protect: Beware.
It is pretty clear that he has zero knowledge of the poker industry. For someone claiming that under him as an affiliate he will be able to protect you of the said industry, it does not compute.

I suggest you to go through a lot of his posts here in order to give you an idea of what type of individual he is or even go to other forums like 2p2 (this thread in particular is quite telling about his “abilities” http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/internet-poker/does-skrill-make-contradictory-statements-their-legally-binding-contract-1589116/ ) or PokerFraudAlert where he is, to say the least, not receiving a warm welcome; which does not prevent him to link the said forum on his website to lure people into thinking he is somewhat related to it and to give him some kind of false legitimacy in the process.