Topic: BFL (BF Labs Inc; Butterfly Labs) officially refusing to refund their customers. - page 2. (Read 18302 times)

I see this thread has been moved into a dark corner of the basement. Why?  

Let's try and keep this thread on the first page for great justice

Made a couple of phone calls this morning.  I was informed about this website and told that they would likely be very interested in hearing about BF Labs story.

Don't be shy fellows, they accept third party submissions.  Let the IC3 determine if no refunds is legal or not...


http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx

A Special Thanks To Ryan Downs For The Following Upper Management
Phone Numbers.
1-408-967-5033 (TOLL NUMBER) Michael Oldenburg, HE WANTS TO HEAR YOURCOMPLAINTS!
1-408-376-7514 (TOLL FAX Number) Ryan Downs, Senior Vice PresidentOperations, PayPal, Inc. and eBay Inc.
1-402-935-2050 (Toll Number)
1-888-215-5506 (Toll Free Number)
1-888-221-1161 (Toll Free Number)
1-408-376-7400 (Toll Number)
1-408-376-7514 (Toll Fax Number) PayPal, San Jose, General Fax #1-650-864-8000 (Toll Number)
1-402-935-2284 (Toll Number -- Banking and Check Issues)
1-402-935-2212 (Toll Number -- ACH Processing & Check Services)
1-402-935-2255 (Toll Number -- Account Review Department)
1-402-935-2257 (Toll Number -- Account Review Department)
1-402-935-2223 (Toll Number -- PayPal Compliance)
1-402-935-2250 (Toll Number -- PayPal Compliance)
1-402-935-2000 (Toll Number -- Customer Service Department)
1-402-935-2007 (Toll Number -- Customer Service Department)
1-402-935-5181 (Toll Number -- Debit Card Services)
1-402-935-2116 (Toll Number -- Escalations Department)
1-402-935-2129 (Toll Number -- Escalations Department)
1-402-935-2238 (Toll Number -- Management, Escalations Department)
1-402-935-2239 (Toll Number -- Fraud Prevention Department)
1-402-935-2251 (Toll Number -- Manager, Resolutions Department)
1-650-251-1101 (Toll FAX Number -- Never Fax w/o a Case Number!)
1-408-376-7514 (Toll FAX Number -- Never Fax w/o a Case Number!)
1-408-967-1005 (Toll Number -- Amanda Pires, PayPal Media Relations)
1-402-537-5755 (Toll FAX Number -- PayPal Chargeback Department)
1-402-938-2337 (Toll FAX Number -- Compliance Department)
1-303-395-2802 (Toll FAX Number -- Compliance Department)
1-402-952-8691 (Thomas, PayPal Executive Dying to Receive Your Call)
1-402-935-2238 (Tiffany Zaporowski, Strategic Risk Operations)
1-402-935-2116 (Elizabeth Morey, Supervisor, Executive Escalations)
1-402-952-8691 (Thomas, Senior Agent, Dying to Receive Your Call)
1-402-935-2172 (Adam Braasch, Senior Agent)
1-402-952-8902 (Gabriel, Agent, Executive Escalations)
1-402-935-2268 (Beth Beutler, Senior Agent)
1-402-935-5146 (Leslie Byrne, Senior Agent)
1-402-935-2399 (Janyce Erikson, Senior Agent)
1-402-935-5145 (Melody Fry, Senior Agent)
1-402-935-2174 (Jackie Hart, Senior Agent)
1-402-935-2229 (Michael Lazure, Senior Agent) *ACH/Wire Expert*
1-402-935-5163 (Rick Martin, Senior Agent)
1-402-935-5073 (Stephanie Mikovec, Senior Agent)
1-402-935-2157 (Megan Moore, Senior Agent) *WORKS WEEKENDS*
1-402-935-3533 (Peggy Pattavina, Senior Agent)
1-402-935-2331 (Tara Stevens, Senior Agent)
1-402-938-3532 (Megan Wetzel, Senior Agent)   
(402)935-2114   Kay P. ACH / Check Services       
(402)935-2212   ACH Processing Main Line ACH / Check Services       
(402)935-2284   cindy ACH / Check Services     Processing / Bank Only    
(402)935-2295   Chuck ACH / Check Services     Processing Manager    
(402)935-2255   Jasmine Account Review       
(402)935-2256   Jamie Account Review       
(402)935-2257   Jamie Account Review       
(402)935-2328   Chris Account Review       
(402)935-2333   Luke Account Review       
(402)935-2114   Kay P. ACH / Check Services       
(402)935-2212   ACH Processing Main Line ACH / Check Services       
(402)935-2284   cindy ACH / Check Services     Processing / Bank Only    
(402)935-2295   Chuck ACH / Check Services     Processing Manager    
(402)935-2223   Sheryl AUP Compliance       
(402)935-2250   Katrina AUP Compliance       
(402)935-2275   Lisa AUP Compliance       
(402)935-2332   Julie Gonzales AUP Compliance       
(402)935-5140   Alahandre Elise(?) AUP Compliance       
(402)935-2029   Todd Business Development       
(402)935-5126   Shane Business Development     Schedule: 8:30~5PM M-F    
(402)935-5197   Ken Holston Business Development     Business Management & Account Management    
(402)935-2000   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2007   Call Center Inbound Line Call Center       
(402)935-2012   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2011   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2014   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2017   Call Center Inbound: Debit Cards Call Center       
(402)935-2019   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2021   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2022   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2023   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2024   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2025   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2030   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2050   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2053   Call Center Inbound: Premier Services Call Center       
(402)935-2057   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2065   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2079   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2080   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2081   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2082   Premier Service Line Call Center       
(402)935-2084   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2085   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2092   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2100   Call Center Inbound Call Center     Premier Services Line    
(402)935-2106   Call Center Inbound Call Center     Premier Services Line    
(402)935-2107   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2124   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2148   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2166   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2194   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2233   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2300   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2323   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-5119   Call Center Inbound Call Center       
(402)935-2165   Jessica Card Services       
(402)935-2396   Tamara Spurlock Card Services       
(402)935-5181   Lisa Weaver Card Services     Debit Card Team    
(402)935-2015   Teresa Rains Charge Backs       
(402)935-2141   Mikalea Charge Backs       
(402)935-2152   Anna Charge Backs       
(402)935-2189   Margaret Charge Backs       
(402)935-2340   Debbie Charge Backs       
(402)935-2063   Taj Education Team     Product Education    
(402)935-2064   Dona Education Team       
(402)935-2116   Elizabeth Executive Escalations     Works closely w/Tiffany(detp.mgr). Very Responsive.    
(402)935-2129   Joe Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2156   Brian Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2157   Megan Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2172   Adam Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2173   John Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2174   Jackie Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2192   Eric Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2128   Stacy Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2228   Stacy Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2238   Tiffany Executive Escalations     Manager of Executive Escalations.    
(402)935-2268   Beth Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2269   Michelle Executive Escalations     Schedule: Tues~Thur 9:30AM~8PM    
(402)935-2334   Luke Executive Escalations       
(402)935-5145   Melanie Executive Escalations     Schedule: M-F 4PM~Mid. CST    
(402)935-5146   Leslie Executive Escalations       
(402)935-5163   Rick Martin Executive Escalations       
(402)935-2112   Gloria Finance       
(402)935-2207   Jeremy Finance       
(402)935-2371   Julie Finance       
(402)935-2239   Collin Fraud & Security     Fraud Prevention    
(402)935-2267   Mark Fraud & Security     Trust & Safety    
(402)935-2272   Michael Fraud & Security     Protection Services    
(402)935-2366   Suzanne Combes Brown Fraud & Security     Risk Management Manager    
(402)935-2368   Sheryl London Fraud & Security     Protection Services: Senior Agent    
(402)935-5134   Bill Gray Fraud & Security     Internal Audit. Mountain View Office: 650-864-8046    
(402)935-2044   Paula Adams Global Services     Global Help Desk    
(402)935-2127   Amy Bush Global Services       
(402)935-2048   Joyce Brown Human Resources     Training Department    
(402)935-2051   Melanie Human Resources     Training Department    
(402)935-2128   Michelle Human Resources     HR/Benefits Coordinator    
(402)935-2169   Sterling Blackwell Human Resources     Employee Development    
(402)935-2283   Amy Human Resources     Staffing    
(402)935-2318   John Latke Human Resources     Training Department    
(402)935-2339   Michelle Mullis Human Resources       
(402)935-5128   Michelle Human Resources     Benefits Coordinator    
(402)935-2001   IVR Testing Line Internal / IT     Tests voice recognition, play around.    
(402)935-2004   IVR Testing Line Internal / IT     Tests voice recognition, etc.. play around    
(402)935-2026   Password Prompt (?) Internal / IT     Line immediately prompts for password. Unsure of it's use.    
(402)935-2032   Employee Attendance Line Internal / IT     (try user: 1234 pass:1234, works to play around with)    
(402)935-2069   ECS System Testing Internal / IT     Play around, not sure of purpose.    
(402)935-2299   Internal Software Helpdesk Internal / IT       
(402)935-5100   Employee Attendance Line Internal / IT     (user: 1234 / pass: 1234 to play around)    
(402)935-5151   Hold Music / Advertisement Internal / IT     Test Line for Hold Music ?    
(402)935-5149   Monitoring Line? Internal / IT       
(402)935-5168   Monitoring Line Internal / IT       
(402)935-5184   Gene (or Steve) Internal / IT     Technical Support Manager    
(402)935-5199   Call Center Status Line Internal / IT     This ext. will place the call center in Emergency or Normal state.   
(402)935-2274   Matthew Member Services     Member Services Supervisor    
(402)935-2321   Michelle Member Services     Supervisor (Sat/Sun/Mon 11A~Mid)    
(402)935-2357   Terry Dale Member Services       
(402)935-5161   Tim Loban Merchant Fraud & Risk     Weekend Supervisor (Sat/Sun/Mon 11AM~Mid)    
(402)935-5169   Alicia Merchant Fraud & Risk       
(402)935-2074   Tammy Galvin Quality Development       
(402)935-2226   Jenny Quality Development       
(402)935-2034   Janie Bartlett Resolution Services       
(402)935-2132   Bryant Resolution Services     Team Leader    
(402)935-2241   Lynn Vogue Resolution Services       
(402)935-2251   Mike McCormick Resolution Services     Resolution Services Supervisor    
(402)935-2266   Rich H. Resolution Services       
(402)935-2353   Lorie Kilstrom Resolution Services       
(402)935-5120   Tim Underlow Resolution Services     Product Education Trainer for Resolution Services    
(402)935-5141   Resolutions Department Line Resolution Services       
(402)935-2218   Douglas H. Security       
(402)935-5172   Michell Security       
(402)935-2002   April Garner Unknown       
(402)935-2005   Adonocca Banks Unknown       
(402)935-2010   Nick Unknown       
(402)935-2013   Pat Unknown       
(402)935-2018   Vicki Hernandez Unknown       
(402)935-2020   Mary Jo Unknown       
(402)935-2028   Megan Unknown       
(402)935-2039   Jeff Hagan Unknown       
(402)935-2040   Mary Steeley Unknown       
(402)935-2041   Michelle Parkins Unknown       
(402)935-2049   Jason Finer Unknown       
(402)935-2052   Eduardo(?) Unknown       
(402)935-2054   Tonya Unknown       
(402)935-2055   John Freeze Unknown       
(402)935-2061   Rick Unknown       
(402)935-2062   Nick Unknown       
(402)935-2066   Michelle Unknown       
(402)935-2073   Kelly Shipley Unknown       
(402)935-2086   Jeff Allen Unknown       
(402)935-2087   Patience Unknown       
(402)935-2091   Dawn Mouski Unknown       
(402)935-2095   Steve Unknown       
(402)935-2098   Dona Shong Unknown       
(402)935-2099   Shelly Unknown       
(402)935-2101   John Unknown       
(402)935-2103   Latrisha Harris Unknown       
(402)935-2104   Lisa Hughes Unknown       
(402)935-2110   Amy Lescott Unknown       
(402)935-2113   Kelly Unknown       
(402)935-2115   Maggie Mentato Unknown       
(402)935-2118   Paul Ingles Unknown       
(402)935-2119   Stacy Price Unknown       
(402)935-2123   Kelly Unknown       
(402)935-2125   Koreen Unknown       
(402)935-2126   Michelle Unknown       
(402)935-2134   Cindy Langstrom Unknown       
(402)935-2136   Lynette Lane Unknown       
(402)935-2138   Kim Unknown       
(402)935-2142   Kimberly Unknown       
(402)935-2149   Mark Rosenthal Unknown       
(402)935-2150   Eddie Unknown       
(402)935-2154   Charles Unknown       
(402)935-2158   Bill Unknown       
(402)935-2168   Peggy Unknown       
(402)935-2170   Deb Myer Unknown     Schedule: M-F 8AM~4:30PM    
(402)935-2171   Trish Unknown       
(402)935-2175   Zack Unknown       
(402)935-2178   Lashaun Unknown       
(402)935-2179   Beth Unknown       
(402)935-2181   Valerie Dasante Unknown       
(402)935-2182   Erin Crain Unknown       
(402)935-2183   Frank Unknown       
(402)935-2184   Kevin Armstrong Unknown       
(402)935-2186   Emily Heldridge Unknown       
(402)935-2187   Erin Unknown       
(402)935-2188   Lamay Unknown       
(402)935-2201   Ray Unknown       
(402)935-2203   Sherry Unknown       
(402)935-2204   Lisa Thompson Unknown       
(402)935-2205   Kimberly Unknown       
(402)935-2206   Osma Unknown       
(402)935-2216   Tracy Unknown       
(402)935-2217   Shaun Unknown       
(402)935-2224   Meliss Unknown       
(402)935-2225   Jim Unknown       
(402)935-2227   Eric Harrison Unknown       
(402)935-2129   Name not known Unknown       
(402)935-2229   unknown Unknown       
(402)935-2230   Mark Peterson Unknown       
(402)935-2234   Dave Unknown       
(402)935-2236   Brock Unknown       
(402)935-2237   Shaun Unknown       
(402)935-2240   Angie Anderson Unknown       
(402)935-2244   Julie Gonzales Unknown       
(402)935-2246   Sally Unknown       
(402)935-2253   Deb Unknown       
(402)935-2254   Ellie Unknown     Number changed to 935-1835, per voicemail.    
(402)935-2259   Tereasa Unknown       
(402)935-2264   Eric Unknown       
(402)935-2265   Doug H. Unknown       
(402)935-2271   Cynthia Unknown       
(402)935-2273   Leslie Walker Unknown       
(402)935-2276   Heather Johnson Unknown       
(402)935-2281   Jason Alexander Unknown       
(402)935-2288   David Unknown       
(402)935-2291   John Unknown       
(402)935-2298   Chris Unknown       
(402)935-2302   Jim Norway Unknown     Call was forwarded to a Nextel Phone Afterhours (management?)    
(402)935-2305   Amanda Unknown       
(402)935-2308   Cathy Unknown       
(402)935-2316   Laurie Unknown       
(402)935-2317   Jason Unknown       
(402)935-2322   Jamie Swanson Unknown       
(402)935-2324   Jessica Carasoul Unknown       
(402)935-2335   Steve Unknown       
(402)935-2336   Marissa Unknown       
(402)935-2341   Laurie Unknown       
(402)935-2342   Torrence Unknown       
(402)935-2349   Karen Unknown       
(402)935-2350   Beverly Unknown       
(402)935-2351   Karen Lovette Unknown       
(402)935-2358   John Kimmee Unknown       
(402)935-2363   Claire Shumiker Unknown       
(402)935-2364   Mary Viella Unknown       
(402)935-2365   Frank Unknown       
(402)935-2367   Mary OBrien Unknown       
(402)935-2369   Kelly Carson Unknown       
(402)935-2370   unknown Unknown     person answered, unsure, will recheck later.    
(402)935-2372   Bob Miles Unknown       
(402)935-2375   Renee Unknown     Schedule: Tues~Fri 1:30PM~Mid.    
(402)935-2376   Foreign Speaking Employee Unknown     Foreign Employee.. anyone identify language ?    
(402)935-2377   David B. Unknown       
(402)935-2381   Tina Unknown       
(402)935-2386   Cameron Unknown       
(402)935-2387   Cindy Unknown       
(402)935-2391   Alisha Rhea Unknown       
(402)935-2392   Cindy Kathork Unknown       
(402)935-2393   Andres Unknown       
(402)935-2394   Robin Unknown       
(402)935-2395   Jim Unknown       
(402)935-2397   Mark Davis Unknown       
(402)935-2399   Janice Erickson Unknown     Schedule: M-F 6AM~2:30PM    
(402)935-5103   Nicole Unknown       
(402)935-5105   Natalie Unknown       
(402)935-5106   Angie Unknown       
(402)935-5108   Gene Unknown       
(402)935-5111   Doug Maxum Unknown       
(402)935-5113   Becky Unknown       
(402)935-5115   Carrie Unknown       
(402)935-5116   Paula Baldwin Unknown       
(402)935-5117   Dave Burchill Unknown       
(402)935-5121   Andy J. Unknown       
(402)935-5123   Micheal Jones Unknown       
(402)935-5129   Marlow Rumington Unknown       
(402)935-5133   Jeanette Unknown       
(402)935-5136   Quincy Unknown       
(402)935-5138   Terrell Anderson Unknown       
(402)935-5144   Lisa L. Unknown       
(402)935-5147   Evan McCaul Unknown       
(402)935-5152   Jessica Palamino Unknown       
(402)935-5156   Steve Unknown       
(402)935-5164   Tonya Lynn Unknown       
(402)935-5165   Devon Unknown       
(402)935-5171   Carrol Unknown       
(402)935-5175   Cindy Unknown       
(402)935-5148   Jeff Lonka Unknown     Admin maybe (msg says if urgent, call: 402-490-9749)    
(402)935-5176   Sheila Unknown       
(402)935-5178   Unknown Employee Unknown       
(402)935-5179   Tim Maxwell Unknown       
(402)935-5185   Rich Unknown       
(402)935-5186   Jerry Lowe (female) Unknown       
(402)935-5187   Brian G. Unknown     Voicemail says w/Ebay    
(402)935-5189   Brian Unknown       
(402)935-5192   Christian Reese Unknown       
(402)935-5194   Reese Unknown       
(402)935-5195   Angie Unknown       
(402)935-5196   Scott Unknown

Source Link: http://www.paypalsucks.com/PayPalPhoneNumbers.shtml

It looks like we need to keep the pressure on PayPal, as that seems to be the only thing getting BFL to actually ship units.

FYI: [email protected]

PayPal isn't ignorant about BFL non-compliance with ToS.  They've been aware of the issue for months.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/bfl_jody/137-first-most-boring-update.html#comment1600

Unclear if this was a one-time verification they requested, or if this is something they continue to "manage".

I am with you, what did the fraud department say they would do next?

True, and that will make for a great "unboxing" video.  I don't expect to ever receive a product from BFL, but I'm not laying down for them.

Everyone seems focused on lighting a fire under BFL.  I say, light the fire under PayPal and maybe they can help BFL find their checkbook.

they can just ship you a box of fans real quick and then put you in warranty hell

It seems to me that PayPal is breaking their ToS by allowing BFL to continue to use their services. I'm sure PayPal would not like to open themselves up to a lawsuit when one of BFL's miners catches fire and kills a baby.

The PayPal rep I spoke with agreed with my assessment that BFL is violating the TOS.

Would you (or anyone else who knows of this) please elaborate on the highlighted statement?  

How many individual FTC claims does it take before they open an internal investigation?

Maybe. I contacted PayPal by phone and received the same response, even though I am also a long-time account holder.  PayPal did promise to contact BFL and ask them to ship my order--for whatever that's worth.

My next step has been to contact PayPal's fraud department to point out the blatant and ongoing violation of their terms of service for pre-order sales.  I believe this is BFL's Achilles heel.  BFL needs PayPal.

Of course, my complaints would certainly carry more weight if other BFL victims would follow suit.

In light of your experience, your mileage may vary. It is important to try PayPal first because that is the easiest route to getting your money back.

Your next step would be to fill out the form at the FTC noting that you ordered a product X number of days ago and that BFL has still not shipped it to you. When you asked for a refund, BFL refused.

You spent 1/50th of your life waiting for that BFL hardware. How does it feel compared to your Avalon purchase time?

PayPal turned me down within minutes. The reason stated was "This dispute closed because it was opened for more than 45 days after the transaction date or did not meet other filing criteria."

I placed my order with BFL over a year ago, at this point it just makes me laugh when I think about it, I guess I expect that some day it will show up but we are going on 13 months now...  we are past the point of ridiculous.

In my opinion, if you place an order with BFL now, your hardware will be useless by the time you get it (due to extremely high difficulty). There really is no point.

Josh was right! I'm losing it.



The second time Bruno "The Drama Queen" has spoken a truism.

Dramatized?  TV play, movie, or stage show?

I think you meant traumatized.