Topic: BFL (BF Labs Inc; Butterfly Labs) officially refusing to refund their customers. - page 3. (Read 18342 times)

Quote from: SLok on July 11, 2013, 01:12:14 PM

But that's the definition of a scam. It isn't just: "take a bunch of money and disappear with it all."

Lots of cons and frauds run with some getting return - maybe big return. That's how they stay in business.

It's called partial reinforcement scheduling. If you want to keep 50 sheep at the fence, feed two some grain, then stay in sight of all of them, and they'll all stay, hoping they get theirs.

What you are describing is a Ponzi.
A scam is, most often, where everyone gets fucked.

BFL is certainly a Ponzi, and i suspect before too long they will pack up shop and move to Costa Rica, or the FTC will kick down the door and seize everything.

Either way, i feel like i got bent over the table.

If you have ordered from BFL and have not yet received your product, you are entitled to a refund whenever you request one (per FTC rules).
First ask BFL for one, they will probably say no but you might get lucky.
If you ordered via PayPal you can file a complaint with them even if you are outside the 45 day window. One customer has already gotten a refund from PayPal that was outside the 45 days.
If you ordered via BTC or Bank wire, you can fill out a complaint with the FTC and they will advocate for you with BFL to get your refund.

More people need to read this!

Quote

If you have ordered from BFL and have not yet received your product, you are entitled to a refund whenever you request one (per FTC rules).

First ask BFL for one, they will probably say no but you might get lucky.
If you ordered via PayPal you can file a complaint with them even if you are outside the 45 day window. One customer has already gotten a refund from PayPal that was outside the 45 days.

If you ordered via BTC or Bank wire, you can fill out a complaint with the FTC and they will advocate for you with BFL to get your refund.

Phinnaeus Gage

legendary

Activity: 1918

Merit: 1570

Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending

Now what, playing the sentimental game? Want a tap on the back, good boy? wtf Larry the "afro-american"? Is that some special qualification?

I was only pointing out that Larry is an Afro-American. At the age of five he was severely beaten by his step-dad of which never served a single day behind bars for his actions.

In response to the rest of your post, the intent of my post was NOT to seek any sentimental recognition.

So, no, it's not some special qualification.

Care to play again?

k9quaint

legendary

Activity: 1190

Merit: 1000

Quote from: sneef on July 11, 2013, 06:24:18 PM

But that's the definition of a scam. It isn't just: "take a bunch of money and disappear with it all."

Lots of cons and frauds run with some getting return - maybe big return. That's how they stay in business.

It's called partial reinforcement scheduling. If you want to keep 50 sheep at the fence, feed two some grain, then stay in sight of all of them, and they'll all stay, hoping they get theirs.

What you are describing is a Ponzi.
A scam is, most often, where everyone gets fucked.

BFL is certainly a Ponzi, and i suspect before too long they will pack up shop and move to Costa Rica, or the FTC will kick down the door and seize everything.

Either way, i feel like i got bent over the table.

If you have ordered from BFL and have not yet received your product, you are entitled to a refund whenever you request one (per FTC rules).
First ask BFL for one, they will probably say no but you might get lucky.
If you ordered via PayPal you can file a complaint with them even if you are outside the 45 day window. One customer has already gotten a refund from PayPal that was outside the 45 days.
If you ordered via BTC or Bank wire, you can fill out a complaint with the FTC and they will advocate for you with BFL to get your refund.

sneef

member

Activity: 69

Merit: 10

Quote from: SLok on July 11, 2013, 10:00:01 AM

But that's the definition of a scam. It isn't just: "take a bunch of money and disappear with it all."

Lots of cons and frauds run with some getting return - maybe big return. That's how they stay in business.

It's called partial reinforcement scheduling. If you want to keep 50 sheep at the fence, feed two some grain, then stay in sight of all of them, and they'll all stay, hoping they get theirs.

What you are describing is a Ponzi.
A scam is, most often, where everyone gets fucked.

BFL is certainly a Ponzi, and i suspect before too long they will pack up shop and move to Costa Rica, or the FTC will kick down the door and seize everything.

Either way, i feel like i got bent over the table.

SolarSilver

legendary

Activity: 1112

Merit: 1000

ROFLMAO!!!!! Well, we all know how his second choice ended!!! The bASIC fail, where Buzzdave claimed (lied) he saw Tom's working real ASIC btw.

bASIC fail or not, at least I and other bASIC customers got a refund for our bASIC orders that never got delivered in January 2013 which allowed us to participate in Avalon Batch #2

There is a lot to be said about the bASIC messup (heck, I would have ended up with 30 Avalon Batch #1 units if I did not got lured into bASIC) but at least Tom (and Buzzdave) kept their word and refunded all their customers.

I wonder if BFL customers feel so lucky at this point? Oh for fun, let's have a look at bitcoindifficulty.com, Next difficulty (estimate): 26,844,091

Sweet...

Xian01

legendary

Activity: 1652

Merit: 1067

Christian Antkow

Quote from: SLok on July 11, 2013, 12:15:15 PM

I understand that you still don't know how many units, or better THash, KNC will take from their production run to mine bitcoins for themselves?

Are we to assume with this particular phraseology, that you have some concrete insider information about America's favorite Bitcoin ASIC company ? More specifically, the implication that they are definitively using their production to mine bitcoins for themselves as you are accusing KNC of doing ?

Do tell.

k9quaint

legendary

Activity: 1190

Merit: 1000

Quote from: SLok on July 11, 2013, 01:12:14 PM

Now what, playing the sentimental game? Want a tap on the back, good boy? wtf Larry the "afro-american"? Is that some special qualification?

How are those BFL sample chips tasting? How many TMWs has it been?

In other news, everyone who has an order with BFL can get a refund until they receive their unit. Contact BFL, if they don't comply, contact PayPal. If you didn't order via PayPal fill out a complaint with the FTC and then forward that to BFL as well. You will get your refund if BFL hasn't yet shipped your products to you.

SLok

hero member

Activity: 568

Merit: 500

Now what, playing the sentimental game? Want a tap on the back, good boy? wtf Larry the "afro-american"? Is that some special qualification?

Phinnaeus Gage

legendary

Activity: 1918

Merit: 1570

Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending

Quote from: SLok on July 11, 2013, 12:31:50 PM

Might be a fine job for you, you don't seem to have anything imported at hand lately to do with your life besides hanging around here in the BFL topics?

Except jacking off to MFC girls, barn wood, and writing a book (non-fiction not necessarily Bitcoin related).

And making pies.

And spending a hour each morning with autistic adults. Ironically (factually), I pitch a Nerf-like baseball to a guy name Joss. Another guy, named Larry (an Afro-American), just started coming around to speaking again since being dramatized at a younger age thanks, in part, to my efforts. I also taught him to shake hands.

As a whole, and to be fair, SLok, your assessment is somewhat accurate.

SLok

hero member

Activity: 568

Merit: 500

Might be a fine job for you, you don't seem to have anything imported at hand lately to do with your life besides hanging around here in the BFL topics?

Phinnaeus Gage

legendary

Activity: 1918

Merit: 1570

Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending

Quote from: Loredo on July 11, 2013, 10:57:38 AM

RE: "That said, I don't believe they are a scam, I believe they will eventually ship their asics, just not to everyone, and a lot of people will be left behind and probably never recover their investment."

But that's the definition of a scam. It isn't just: "take a bunch of money and disappear with it all." Lots of cons and frauds run with some getting return - maybe big return. That's how they stay in business.

It's called partial reinforcement scheduling. If you want to keep 50 sheep at the fence, feed two some grain, then stay in sight of all of them, and they'll all stay, hoping they get theirs.

Somebody may need to redo this chart reflecting as it applies to BFL.

Phinnaeus Gage

legendary

Activity: 1918

Merit: 1570

Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending

Quote from: Bitcoinorama on July 11, 2013, 10:49:42 AM

Quote from: Bitcoinorama on July 11, 2013, 10:05:42 AM

Quote from: dominicus on July 06, 2013, 03:21:04 AM

Please don't report BFL to the FTC, such distractions might push out my shipping date even further out. Grin

∞ + x = ∞

Lol, is that infinity, or Butterfly? Grin

Lol it was meant to be "infinity", I didn't realise their thread resembled an infinity symbol.
Quite ironic, isn't it.

Dude, their actual logo is an infinity sign, that's what's hilarious!!

I'm surprised no one has picked up on this before!!

Actually, it's a Mobius strip, isn't it? I have heard that (maybe a myth) the infinity symbol derives from the Mobius strip.

Actually it's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorenz_attractor

Quote

The Lorenz system is a system of ordinary differential equations (the Lorenz equations) first studied by Edward Lorenz. It is notable for having chaotic solutions for certain parameter values and initial conditions. In particular, the Lorenz attractor is a set of chaotic solutions of the Lorenz system which, when plotted, resemble a butterfly or figure eight.

Of which BFL is on record in stating that that's not where their logo was derived.

SLok

hero member

Activity: 568

Merit: 500

Quote from: Bitcoinorama on July 11, 2013, 10:49:42 AM

Quote from: Bitcoinorama on July 11, 2013, 10:05:42 AM

Quote from: dominicus on July 06, 2013, 03:21:04 AM

Please don't report BFL to the FTC, such distractions might push out my shipping date even further out. Grin

∞ + x = ∞

Lol, is that infinity, or Butterfly? Grin

Lol it was meant to be "infinity", I didn't realise their thread resembled an infinity symbol.
Quite ironic, isn't it.

Dude, their actual logo is an infinity sign, that's what's hilarious!!

I'm surprised no one has picked up on this before!!

Maybe because not everyone fails the basic math knowledge to see the difference between the infinity symbol, and a Lorenz Attractor' styled butterfly?
By the lack of you giving an answer btw, as the KNC expert, to the question how many units KNC will withhold, I understand that you still don't know how many units, or better THash, KNC will take from their production run to mine bitcoins for themselves?

niko

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 501

There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.

Just to drive one of Phinn's points deeper into everybody's head:

"Sales are final" does not apply unless there was an actual sale taking place. If you have not received your unit, there was no sale - only a (pre)order.

Loredo

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: Lohoris on July 11, 2013, 11:08:09 AM

Quote from: Loredo on July 11, 2013, 10:57:38 AM

I have heard that (maybe a myth) the infinity symbol derives from the Mobius strip.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity_symbol

Thank you. From that article:

In the works of Vladimir Nabokov, including The Gift and Pale Fire, the figure-eight shape is used symbolically to refer to the Möbius strip and the infinite, for instance in these books' descriptions of the shapes of bicycle tire tracks and of the outlines of half-remembered people.

But the first usage of the symbol is much earlier than Mobius.

Lohoris

hero member

Activity: 630

Merit: 500

Bitgoblin

Quote from: Loredo on July 11, 2013, 10:57:38 AM

I have heard that (maybe a myth) the infinity symbol derives from the Mobius strip.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity_symbol

Loredo

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: Bitcoinorama on July 11, 2013, 10:49:42 AM

Quote from: Bitcoinorama on July 11, 2013, 10:05:42 AM

Quote from: dominicus on July 06, 2013, 03:21:04 AM

Please don't report BFL to the FTC, such distractions might push out my shipping date even further out. Grin

∞ + x = ∞

Lol, is that infinity, or Butterfly? Grin

Lol it was meant to be "infinity", I didn't realise their thread resembled an infinity symbol.
Quite ironic, isn't it.

Dude, their actual logo is an infinity sign, that's what's hilarious!!

I'm surprised no one has picked up on this before!!

Actually, it's a Mobius strip, isn't it? I have heard that (maybe a myth) the infinity symbol derives from the Mobius strip.

Bitcoinorama

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: Bitcoinorama on July 11, 2013, 10:05:42 AM

Quote from: dominicus on July 06, 2013, 03:21:04 AM

Please don't report BFL to the FTC, such distractions might push out my shipping date even further out. Grin

∞ + x = ∞

Lol, is that infinity, or Butterfly? Grin

Lol it was meant to be "infinity", I didn't realise their thread resembled an infinity symbol.
Quite ironic, isn't it.

Dude, their actual logo is an infinity sign, that's what's hilarious!!

I'm surprised no one has picked up on this before!!

Loredo

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

RE: "That said, I don't believe they are a scam, I believe they will eventually ship their asics, just not to everyone, and a lot of people will be left behind and probably never recover their investment."

But that's the definition of a scam. It isn't just: "take a bunch of money and disappear with it all." Lots of cons and frauds run with some getting return - maybe big return. That's how they stay in business.

It's called partial reinforcement scheduling. If you want to keep 50 sheep at the fence, feed two some grain, then stay in sight of all of them, and they'll all stay, hoping they get theirs.

Lohoris

hero member

Activity: 630

Merit: 500

Bitgoblin

Quote from: Bitcoinorama on July 11, 2013, 10:05:42 AM