BiblePay | 10% to Orphan-Charity | RANDOMX MINING | Sanctuaries (Masternodes) - page 206.

bible_pay

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Quote from: sunk818 on February 28, 2019, 05:43:02 PM

Quote from: bible_pay on February 28, 2019, 04:54:43 PM

So wait; first of all I dont consider someone who tithes more than once a jerk.

I don't think someone who tithes more than once a jerk. I consider someone who deliberately muscles their way in and tithes 100x a jerk. Someone has a higher chance now to have their tithe included at the expense of someone else. The other ones can queue up for the next block, but PoG difficulty can change and their legal tithe becomes illegal because their tithe is not meeting: 1) min coin age, 2) min coin value, and/or 3) max tithe. If you feel my question is not relevant, I can live with that. Thanks for your reply.

Well the issue here is really that POG is quite a fertile playground if anyone can tithe that many transactions per day.
We just need avg difficulty to rise so that it takes more like 5 days coin age, then the hypothetical person won't be able to tithe 100x to begin with.

So I don't see a problem. The one time a jerk tithes 75* in a block might prevent users in that block from tithing, but there is no guarantee that diff will stay high. Also, remember diff does not rise based on a single block (its always 4 back).

It should all work out over time.

capulo

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Quote from: bible_pay on February 28, 2019, 05:00:50 PM

Quote from: capulo on February 28, 2019, 04:20:51 PM

error message is only: unable to locate coins not marked as pog....
but i have several 5000.001 piles, few <1bbp piles, rosetta payout pile and then 487308.0000000 pile which i want to use with podc. it does not have .001 suffix, it is not labeled as TITHES etc and not works with podcupdate

Do me a favor, see if lowering the banknote quantity to 1 allows it then do the larger quantity right after that.

If so we might have to make it smart enough to try the large then the small method before it fails.

i'm not sure what you mean
write me steps and i will try

but i already did bankroll, i just need to send 480k as podcupdate

sunk818

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Quote from: bible_pay on February 28, 2019, 04:54:43 PM

So wait; first of all I dont consider someone who tithes more than once a jerk.

I don't think someone who tithes more than once a jerk. I consider someone who deliberately muscles their way in and tithes 100x a jerk. Someone has a higher chance now to have their tithe included at the expense of someone else. The other ones can queue up for the next block, but PoG difficulty can change and their legal tithe becomes illegal because their tithe is not meeting: 1) min coin age, 2) min coin value, and/or 3) max tithe. If you feel my question is not relevant, I can live with that. Thanks for your reply.

bible_pay

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Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords

Quote from: capulo on February 28, 2019, 04:20:51 PM

error message is only: unable to locate coins not marked as pog....
but i have several 5000.001 piles, few <1bbp piles, rosetta payout pile and then 487308.0000000 pile which i want to use with podc. it does not have .001 suffix, it is not labeled as TITHES etc and not works with podcupdate

Do me a favor, see if lowering the banknote quantity to 1 allows it then do the larger quantity right after that.

If so we might have to make it smart enough to try the large then the small method before it fails.

bible_pay

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Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords

Quote from: sunk818 on February 28, 2019, 04:45:12 PM

Quote from: bible_pay on February 28, 2019, 03:49:27 PM

It's hard to say without any error messages, could be anything.

I'll try to give write up a test procedure to show you.

Okay, so based on your 40 block PoG difficulty window, there's opportunity to tithe several times a day.

Now, let's say some jerk wants to tithe 100 coins manually. This is more than the 75 txes you mentioned can go in a block.

Who decides which tx are included in the block? Does the miner decide? Is there a more equitable way to prioritize infrequent tithers first? Or maybe limit how many the same address can tithe in the same block and queue for the next block? This would increase illegal tithes because tithe too high or coin age requirement errors can appear. But it doesn't seem fair someone can tithe 100 times and block out other participants. I ask now because if PoDC is removed, all of that BBP will either move to MNs, PoG, or sold. So, those that participate in PoG means there will be more tithe tx in blocks overall.

Code:

22:35:56 tithe 1
22:35:57
{
"Error": "This block is currently full of tithes. Please wait until the next block."
}

Yeah, Ill try to look at Capulos issue.

So wait; first of all I dont consider someone who tithes more than once a jerk. The system is deliberately set up to allow legal tithes in. The idea is for us to grow substantially, so that you really only have one legal tithe per day - then maybe per week if we had 20,000 users, etc. Its OK if someone has enough coin age to tithe more than once per block or day.

Your bringing up a plethora of issues all over the spectrum that are really bitcoin issues. They really are irrelevant. The bitcoin miner works fine in selecting the first 75 who make it in one block. The important thing to know is that if someone had legal coin age and a legal tithe, they have an equal chance of being in a block. (Because dash already went through this once, and they stripped the timestamps out of the miner, so the miners dont know who is first or later, miner only picks non-determistically based on current height and internal receive time - not on the transaction timestamped time).

I don't think you take into consideration what happens when we have more users; the diff rises and the frequency of tithing per user drops.

sunk818

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Quote from: bible_pay on February 28, 2019, 03:49:27 PM

It's hard to say without any error messages, could be anything.

I'll try to give write up a test procedure to show you.

Okay, so based on your 40 block PoG difficulty window, there's opportunity to tithe several times a day.

Now, let's say some jerk wants to tithe 100 coins manually. This is more than the 75 txes you mentioned can go in a block.

Who decides which tx are included in the block? Does the miner decide? Is there a more equitable way to prioritize infrequent tithers first? Or maybe limit how many the same address can tithe in the same block and queue for the next block? This would increase illegal tithes because tithe too high or coin age requirement errors can appear. But it doesn't seem fair someone can tithe 100 times and block out other participants. I ask now because if PoDC is removed, all of that BBP will either move to MNs, PoG, or sold. So, those that participate in PoG means there will be more tithe tx in blocks overall.

Code:

22:35:56 tithe 1
22:35:57
{
"Error": "This block is currently full of tithes. Please wait until the next block."
}

capulo

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error message is only: unable to locate coins not marked as pog....
but i have several 5000.001 piles, few <1bbp piles, rosetta payout pile and then 487308.0000000 pile which i want to use with podc. it does not have .001 suffix, it is not labeled as TITHES etc and not works with podcupdate

bible_pay

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Activity: 1176

Merit: 215

Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords

Quote from: capulo on February 28, 2019, 03:44:03 PM

Quote from: sunk818 on February 28, 2019, 10:16:23 AM

Quote from: bbptoshi on February 28, 2019, 07:54:55 AM

Quote from: sunk818 on February 28, 2019, 12:08:13 AM

using 1.1.9.6 (2019-02-27 15:39:43 -0600)

I did an exec bankroll of a single 500k BBP just now. It wouldn't let me run another exec bankroll on the change address. I had to send it to a different receiving address first. Then I was able to do an exec bankroll. you're saying it should work, but it doesn't work for me.

can anyone else reproduce my situation?

This happened to me as well, except instead of a second bankroll I was unable to send a podcupdate until sending the coins to myself using coin control.

I posted this as a github issue 3 weeks ago. I think more will run into this as they transition away from PoDC to PoG. My workaround is to run two wallets - one for PoDC and one for PoG. I keep enough for 100% stake in PoDC and send the rest to PoG.

PODCUpdate: Unable to locate coins not marked as POG bankroll denominations.
https://github.com/biblepay/biblepay/issues/70

same here, yesterday i had some spare coins on second wallet so i did bankroll, but after this tx eb913f6ae03b350b0f3a200ea2094886c09a91d71ce6624587a55c95bf3b3fba podc stops updating as it could not locate not pog coins...

i resent them back to my wallet but it didnt help

It's hard to say without any error messages, could be anything.

capulo

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Quote from: sunk818 on February 28, 2019, 10:16:23 AM

Quote from: bbptoshi on February 28, 2019, 07:54:55 AM

Quote from: sunk818 on February 28, 2019, 12:08:13 AM

using 1.1.9.6 (2019-02-27 15:39:43 -0600)

I did an exec bankroll of a single 500k BBP just now. It wouldn't let me run another exec bankroll on the change address. I had to send it to a different receiving address first. Then I was able to do an exec bankroll. you're saying it should work, but it doesn't work for me.

can anyone else reproduce my situation?

This happened to me as well, except instead of a second bankroll I was unable to send a podcupdate until sending the coins to myself using coin control.

I posted this as a github issue 3 weeks ago. I think more will run into this as they transition away from PoDC to PoG. My workaround is to run two wallets - one for PoDC and one for PoG. I keep enough for 100% stake in PoDC and send the rest to PoG.

PODCUpdate: Unable to locate coins not marked as POG bankroll denominations.
https://github.com/biblepay/biblepay/issues/70

same here, yesterday i had some spare coins on second wallet so i did bankroll, but after this tx eb913f6ae03b350b0f3a200ea2094886c09a91d71ce6624587a55c95bf3b3fba podc stops updating as it could not locate not pog coins...

i resent them back to my wallet but it didnt help

bible_pay

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Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords

I suppose we can start getting our feet wet with discussing the potential retirement of PODC here:

https://forum.biblepay.org/index.php?topic=380.msg5460#msg5460

Note there is no vote yet, but I plan on entering a sanctuary vote within a couple days.

bible_pay

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Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords

Quote from: zthomasz on February 28, 2019, 11:53:47 AM

Quote from: bible_pay on February 27, 2019, 09:44:02 PM

I'm enjoying the new higher POW difficulty I'm seeing (6200 right now). This is good for our security.

I'm not sure yet, but it appears POG is slowly attracting more users.

How many users do we currently have?

Checking latest stats:

We have 100 active pool miners (POBH), 90 POG miners, 370 total PODC cpids.
We have 5,100 (all-time) e-mail addresses in the pool (IE that I can notify in 30 days about POG, if PODC is retired).

sunk818

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Quote from: zthomasz on February 28, 2019, 11:53:47 AM

Quote from: bible_pay on February 27, 2019, 09:44:02 PM

I'm enjoying the new higher POW difficulty I'm seeing (6200 right now). This is good for our security.

I'm not sure yet, but it appears POG is slowly attracting more users.

How many users do we currently have?

For PoG, I count 75 (there's around 100, but there's one person that created 25 wallets).

there's at least 100 miners on purepool: https://www.purepool.org/main/statistics

I show 39 active miners on pool.biblepay.org

then we have the masternodes but I'm not sure how you count them as some people have many masternodes, so it is hard to identify as individuals.

zthomasz

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Quote from: bible_pay on February 27, 2019, 09:44:02 PM

I'm enjoying the new higher POW difficulty I'm seeing (6200 right now). This is good for our security.

I'm not sure yet, but it appears POG is slowly attracting more users.

How many users do we currently have?

bible_pay

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Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords

Looking at the code for our podcupdate, I still don't see a problem, we only skip POG denominated amounts and locked sanc funds.

Im guessing the two wallets that did something with coin control probably rearranged funds to avoid an error such as "unable to create transaction - too large" or something of the like.

If it happens again we will need all that info I posted earlier - with the exact podcupdate error message from the log.

As far as exec bankroll- a separate github issue for that with a specific example.

bible_pay

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Quote from: bible_pay on February 28, 2019, 10:33:06 AM

Quote from: sunk818 on February 28, 2019, 10:21:58 AM

Quote from: bible_pay on February 28, 2019, 10:15:01 AM

After running 1.1.9.6 for 24+ hours, just restart the wallet with -zapwallettxes=1 once and it will remove the orphaned transactions -- then going forward we should not see new ones appear.

If I run tithe=2 , I run into orphans sometimes.
I think I am trying to tithe too fast?
Should I run two wallets then?
I think you mentioned there's a limit of 2 tithes per blocks from same address?
What do you think of InstantSend as default? Would that help with PoG difficulty window?

What version are you running first? Its only been out for 12 hours.

No, No, No, No.

So on this one, the main thing I want to convey to the community here is that we only have 65% upgraded to versions that gracefully reject tithes. So the answer is 2 mins is OK, but we cant expect this to be perfect until 99% upgrade to versions after 1195 or so. So yes, you can use 2, but dont judge the orphans yet.

No never run two wallets, no need.

There is a limit of 75 global tithes per block.

InstantSend would just reduce the total confirms but wouldnt help.

bible_pay

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Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords

Quote from: sunk818 on February 28, 2019, 10:44:44 AM

Quote from: bible_pay on February 28, 2019, 10:26:49 AM

So please don't insinuate that we aren't trying to fix production issues. I'll go out on a limb and say I think we have a cleaner environment in github with production support issues than 75% of the communities issues lists. Especially when dealing with prod support emergencies.

Please don't take it the wrong way. We appreciate all that you do. We all want a better BiblePay product, right? I closed the issue because I figured out a workaround (make a separate PoG wallet). But I still have problems with exec bankroll (different circumstance). I'm just trying to help bbptoshi by explaining what I did. I doubt anyone thinks you aren't fixing production issues. Look at all the fixes and new features we've in the last few weeks! Wink

Quote from: bible_pay on February 28, 2019, 10:33:06 AM

Quote from: sunk818 on February 28, 2019, 10:21:58 AM

Quote from: bible_pay on February 28, 2019, 10:15:01 AM

After running 1.1.9.6 for 24+ hours, just restart the wallet with -zapwallettxes=1 once and it will remove the orphaned transactions -- then going forward we should not see new ones appear.

If I run tithe=2 , I run into orphans sometimes.
I think I am trying to tithe too fast?
Should I run two wallets then?
I think you mentioned there's a limit of 2 tithes per blocks from same address?
What do you think of InstantSend as default? Would that help with PoG difficulty window?

What version are you running first? Its only been out for 12 hours.

Was on 1.1.9.5 and now I'm tithing on 1.1.9.6. Still ran into some tithes too high

this one is interesting... tithe amount is 9.79 and max tithe is 9.79, but considered Illegal tithe - tithe too high?

Looks like block PoG diff was 9.78999999 so that makes sense now.

"xxx": "Legal: -3 [TITHE_TOO_HIGH], Amount: 9.79, Height: 104236, Spent_Coin_Value: 1046.00, 9212fd788f03968e2dfc81372bf9e4b779f510e980bf0303525284d45b257715-76, Age: 1.55, NickName: xxx
[Max Tithe Amt: 9.79, Min Age: 1.51, Min Coin Value: 530.04]",

http://explorer.biblepay.org/api/getblock?hash=efa857e0928fdc37c970cbd13337d80ecb96158342502524744ac35ee0650c6a

Code:

"block_tithes": 617.8805,
  "24_hour_tithes": 7509.68399948,
  "pog_difficulty": 1386.882573590632,
  "min_coin_age": 1.51,
  "min_coin_amt": 530.04,
  "max_tithe_amount": 9.78999999,

OK, just try to proofread your post and think what others feel when you click the red button. OK, thats cool.

Anyway, on that tithe you posted (-3) that was not from 1196. I can tell because 1196 sends out .05% less than the TDP params for the block. So I suggest going through your list - and auditing blocks up to your cutover point. Thats why I said wait 24 hours- then your list will be clean with 1196. EDIT: Yes - its possible on 1195 that a tithe that is rounded down is over the limit by .000001 satoshi.

sunk818

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Quote from: bible_pay on February 28, 2019, 10:26:49 AM

So please don't insinuate that we aren't trying to fix production issues. I'll go out on a limb and say I think we have a cleaner environment in github with production support issues than 75% of the communities issues lists. Especially when dealing with prod support emergencies.

Please don't take it the wrong way. We appreciate all that you do. We all want a better BiblePay product, right? I closed the issue because I figured out a workaround (make a separate PoG wallet). But I still have problems with exec bankroll (different circumstance). I'm just trying to help bbptoshi by explaining what I did. I doubt anyone thinks you aren't fixing production issues. Look at all the fixes and new features we've in the last few weeks! Wink

Quote from: bible_pay on February 28, 2019, 10:33:06 AM

What version are you running first? Its only been out for 12 hours.

I'll let 1.1.9.6 run a bit then. never mind.

bible_pay

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Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords

Quote from: afeno on February 28, 2019, 06:01:31 AM

Quote from: bible_pay on February 27, 2019, 09:41:25 AM

Quote from: afeno on February 27, 2019, 07:47:09 AM

What is the actual reward distribution now that we have POG in place?

This is what I found in the official BBP webpage but POG is not listed.

10% Charity
5% IT
2.5% PR (Public Relation campaigns)
2.5% P2P (Orphan Letter Writing, Pay To Preach, Pay to be a Priest, FAQ Writers, Social Media)
38.5% Proof of Distributed Computing (PODC) [Cancer Research]
3% Proof of Work (POW)
38.5% Masternodes (Sanctuaries)

Can someone clarify how are the coins distributed?

Thank you!

Here you go:

https://wiki.biblepay.org/Economics

Thank you Rob! What is the plan/future of PODC?

I'm going to enter a topic for it later today - and we can discuss its future.

bible_pay

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Activity: 1176

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Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords

Quote from: bbptoshi on February 28, 2019, 07:54:55 AM

Quote from: sunk818 on February 28, 2019, 12:08:13 AM

using 1.1.9.6 (2019-02-27 15:39:43 -0600)

I did an exec bankroll of a single 500k BBP just now. It wouldn't let me run another exec bankroll on the change address. I had to send it to a different receiving address first. Then I was able to do an exec bankroll. you're saying it should work, but it doesn't work for me.

can anyone else reproduce my situation?

This happened to me as well, except instead of a second bankroll I was unable to send a podcupdate until sending the coins to myself using coin control.

I also agree about the checkboxes at the top. I only understand that checking custom lets you see hypothetical scenarios by changing the parameters.

When you sent coins to yourself via coin-control to enable yourself to spend the coins in a PODC update, please tell us the exact amounts to had to free.
If they were change for pog bankroll denoms, then they would not have worked in a PODC update anyway (as PODC updates skip those).

If you can reproduce the scenario again, please enter a github with a screen shot of the coin control before you reallocate, an actual PODC update error message, and the output of exec getdimensionalcoins 0 0 so we can see the actual coins involved in the failed podc update.

bible_pay

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Activity: 1176

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Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords

Quote from: sunk818 on February 28, 2019, 10:21:58 AM

Quote from: bible_pay on February 28, 2019, 10:15:01 AM

After running 1.1.9.6 for 24+ hours, just restart the wallet with -zapwallettxes=1 once and it will remove the orphaned transactions -- then going forward we should not see new ones appear.

If I run tithe=2 , I run into orphans sometimes.
I think I am trying to tithe too fast?
Should I run two wallets then?
I think you mentioned there's a limit of 2 tithes per blocks from same address?
What do you think of InstantSend as default? Would that help with PoG difficulty window?

What version are you running first? Its only been out for 12 hours.

No, No, No, No.

Topic: BiblePay | 10% to Orphan-Charity | RANDOMX MINING | Sanctuaries (Masternodes) - page 206. (Read 243417 times)