Binance Hackers Bombard Chipmixer to Launder at Least 4,836 BTC - page 6.

jerrison

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Quote from: dul48 on August 11, 2019, 05:01:01 AM

At least 4,836 Bitcoin (BTC) of stolen from Binance exchange in May 2019 was laundered through crypto mixing service Chipmixer.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/binance-hackers-bombard-chipmixer-to-launder-at-least-4-836-btc

i do not see Chipmixer as an accomplise and therefore should not be shutdown or even dragged into the Binance Hack as they render services to the general public. Mixed multitude subscribe to their services and it is not possible to say who does an illegal transaction within their framework except if they are being alerted to awaken their consciousness and halt such transactions when and while they still can. it may not be a good story to tell about the company but then let us be realistic

erikalui

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Quote from: serjent05 on August 12, 2019, 12:32:33 PM

Honestly I do not think Chipmixer has something to do with this money laundering nor they are with the hackers. As we all know Chipmixer is a service that any of us can access. It is probably automated, that disable it to stop any transaction made in it so I guess it is biased to accused them that they condone criminal actions. I think it is best to see the next move of Chipmixer if they will cooperate with the investigation or not before saying anything against them.

I also want to see what Chipmixer does now and see them helping in the investigation. Since there is an allegation of such a huge amount involved, they should be cooperating while the members here are deviating the topic and personally attacking members to defend Chipmixer. Hope that Chipmixer replies soon.

serjent05

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Quote from: erikalui on August 12, 2019, 10:32:32 AM

Quote from: bob123 on August 12, 2019, 06:14:51 AM

Maybe because there are people around who care about their privacy ?

I mean.. sure.. there a lot of people like you who give their whole privacy away just for a few bucks (e.g. KYC for shitty tokens worth nothing).
Or by browsing with tracking cookies, or by installing the amazon browser plugin basically giving away your privacy for 10$.

Not everyone is like that.

So for few bucks you earn from your signature campaign, you are ready to personally attack members to defend your campaign so would you ready to even take the blame if they turn out to be criminals?

Your website (as you now talk like you own it) is involved in a criminal activity so don't defend it blindly. What I do is none of your concern as I don't support criminals nor will go to the extent you went. You want to launder money, you do it but when you get caught, you can't blame the Government because you want to PROTECT YOUR PRIVACY.

I thought you were a decent member to talk to but sorry to say you can't even talk properly.

Honestly I do not think Chipmixer has something to do with this money laundering nor they are with the hackers. As we all know Chipmixer is a service that any of us can access. It is probably automated, that disable it to stop any transaction made in it so I guess it is biased to accused them that they condone criminal actions. I think it is best to see the next move of Chipmixer if they will cooperate with the investigation or not before saying anything against them.

audaciousbeing

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I see that a lot of people are pointing accusing fingers against ChipMixer which to me is misconception and a campaign of calumny against the services ChipMixer is offering and moreso is diverting of attention from the real culprit here which is Binance that fails to put necessary security measures in place to protect other people's asset. Its just like blaming the church for receiving tithe from people who came to worship there. Another point to note is that, if the hackers didn't use ChipMixer they would surely use another service...

erikalui

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^Your reasoning failed the moment I saw your signature and this comment.

Quote

In the end, it will make ChipMixer's reputation stronger and attract more people who are used to use BTC tumblers.

Glad you admitted that being involved in such shady businesses helps promote their reputation.

LeGaulois

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Quote from: erikalui on August 12, 2019, 10:32:32 AM

Quote from: bob123 on August 12, 2019, 06:14:51 AM

Maybe because there are people around who care about their privacy ?

I mean.. sure.. there a lot of people like you who give their whole privacy away just for a few bucks (e.g. KYC for shitty tokens worth nothing).
Or by browsing with tracking cookies, or by installing the amazon browser plugin basically giving away your privacy for 10$.

Not everyone is like that.

So for few bucks you earn from your signature campaign, you are ready to personally attack members to defend your campaign so would you ready to even take the blame if they turn out to be criminals?

Your website (as you now talk like you own it) is involved in a criminal activity so don't defend it blindly. What I do is none of your concern as I don't support criminals nor will go to the extent you went. You want to launder money, you do it but when you get caught, you can't blame the Government because you want to PROTECT YOUR PRIVACY.

I thought you were a decent member to talk to but sorry to say you can't even talk properly.

You use Paypal: Paypal is involved in criminal activities
You use a bank: Banks are involved in criminal activities

So you do support criminals, don't defend them either

Most coins will be tainted soon or later if someone uses a mixer it doesn't mean he is a criminal, as well.
You guys got brainwashed too much and sometimes you have weird reasoning with double standarts

Quote

This is why bitcoin has got a bad name as these mixers enable to turn "tainted" coins into "clean" coins without asking for any proof

You can't be serious Cheesy

erikalui

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Quote from: bob123 on August 12, 2019, 06:14:51 AM

Maybe because there are people around who care about their privacy ?

I mean.. sure.. there a lot of people like you who give their whole privacy away just for a few bucks (e.g. KYC for shitty tokens worth nothing).
Or by browsing with tracking cookies, or by installing the amazon browser plugin basically giving away your privacy for 10$.

Not everyone is like that.

So for few bucks you earn from your signature campaign, you are ready to personally attack members to defend your campaign so would you ready to even take the blame if they turn out to be criminals?

Your website (as you now talk like you own it) is involved in a criminal activity so don't defend it blindly. What I do is none of your concern as I don't support criminals nor will go to the extent you went. You want to launder money, you do it but when you get caught, you can't blame the Government because you want to PROTECT YOUR PRIVACY.

I thought you were a decent member to talk to but sorry to say you can't even talk properly.

bob123

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Those who are overly cautious need to have the crypto they spend for goods and services in a coin like monero then and just keep their investments in Bitcoin. Bitcoin is not a privacy based coin and trying to force it relies upon a lot of trust which goes against the system.

Not necessarily. There are proposals to increase the anonymity of bitcoin.

While coinjoin is fine, there are better solutions available, such as payjoin.

Quote from: malevolent on August 12, 2019, 07:42:09 AM

If you follow where the outputs are being spent, and if the hackers aren't smart enough about how they sell or spend the bitcoins, or if too many of Chipmixers' users spend the mixed coins through services with KYC (or by buying physical products or services in their name), then eventually it might be possible to state with increasing likelihood which outputs are clean and which have a higher probability of being dirty.

Not really.

By combining 2 'dirty' and 'clean' outputs, creating 4 new outputs, it is not possible to call any one of them 'clean' or 'dirty' anymore.
The whole concept of 'dirty' coins simply does not work. Coins do not exist. Only UTXO do. And UTXOs are being 'destroyed' in each transaction.

hv_

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: bob123 on August 12, 2019, 06:14:51 AM

Quote from: hv_ on August 12, 2019, 05:15:02 AM

Good - I wish u good luck.

Original BitCoin was designed to work with ANY counterparty - and sorry - does include banks

It is called Bitcoin, not BitCoin.

And it works with any counterparty. Feel free to let a 3rd party control your coins - and therefore your money.
But this definitely won't be the future for the majority, and there is zero sense in that.

Counterparty - by the way - implies that you can transact with anyone, which is always the case. Even without giving full control away.
Letting someone else manage your funds, does not fall under 'work with any counterparty'.

Why would i need luck ?
I am using BTC as it is supposed to be. You'd be the one who needs luck if you are going to let a 3rd party control your funds. You are giving away all the benefits bitcoin offers.

Quote from: erikalui on August 12, 2019, 05:35:37 AM

If this laundering of money is proved, then like bestmixer now chipmixer will be seized to shut down.

I heavily doubt that.

The operator behind Bestmixer obviously didn't know how to run such a business.
The people behind ChipMixer are way more competent than those of any other mixer around (past and present).

Quote from: erikalui on August 12, 2019, 05:35:37 AM

It was this year when I learnt about mixers and felt they operate with a license but the main purpose of using these mixers i just to launder money else why would anyone use them and how can they be called legal?

Maybe because there are people around who care about their privacy ?

I mean.. sure.. there a lot of people like you who give their whole privacy away just for a few bucks (e.g. KYC for shitty tokens worth nothing).
Or by browsing with tracking cookies, or by installing the amazon browser plugin basically giving away your privacy for 10$.

Not everyone is like that.

Those who are overly cautious need to have the crypto they spend for goods and services in a coin like monero then and just keep their investments in Bitcoin. Bitcoin is not a privacy based coin and trying to force it relies upon a lot of trust which goes against the system. (Trusting a mixer won't just steal your coins, trusting they aren't keeping logs, trusting they have a good mixing algorithm)

Bitcoin is a very good enough privacy system, esp at high txs throughput and proper only - fresh public address handling - but it will and never should be an ANONYMITY system, cause such attracts only criminals.

malevolent

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Quote from: bob123 on August 12, 2019, 04:26:27 AM

That's not how bitcoin works.
There are no 'clean' and 'dirty' coins.

There can be UTXO with an illegal source, but after the next transaction they are not traceable anymore.

Image, you have 1 'dirty' bitcoin (input A) and 1 'clean' bitcoin (input B).
Now you create a transaction consuming both inputs and creating 4 outputs (0.5 BTC each; output W, X, Y, Z).

Which 2 outputs are 'clean' and which are 'dirty' ?
That question can not be answered.

Same applies to cash:
1 'dirty' 10$ bill and 1 'clean' 10$ bill. Now you exchange them to 4 5$ bills. You can't say which of them are 'clean' and which are 'dirty'.

If you follow where the outputs are being spent, and if the hackers aren't smart enough about how they sell or spend the bitcoins, or if too many of Chipmixers' users spend the mixed coins through services with KYC (or by buying physical products or services in their name), then eventually it might be possible to state with increasing likelihood which outputs are clean and which have a higher probability of being dirty.

bob123

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Quote from: hv_ on August 12, 2019, 05:15:02 AM

Good - I wish u good luck.

Original BitCoin was designed to work with ANY counterparty - and sorry - does include banks

It is called Bitcoin, not BitCoin.

And it works with any counterparty. Feel free to let a 3rd party control your coins - and therefore your money.
But this definitely won't be the future for the majority, and there is zero sense in that.

Counterparty - by the way - implies that you can transact with anyone, which is always the case. Even without giving full control away.
Letting someone else manage your funds, does not fall under 'work with any counterparty'.

Why would i need luck ?
I am using BTC as it is supposed to be. You'd be the one who needs luck if you are going to let a 3rd party control your funds. You are giving away all the benefits bitcoin offers.

Quote from: erikalui on August 12, 2019, 05:35:37 AM

If this laundering of money is proved, then like bestmixer now chipmixer will be seized to shut down.

I heavily doubt that.

The operator behind Bestmixer obviously didn't know how to run such a business.
The people behind ChipMixer are way more competent than those of any other mixer around (past and present).

Quote from: erikalui on August 12, 2019, 05:35:37 AM

It was this year when I learnt about mixers and felt they operate with a license but the main purpose of using these mixers i just to launder money else why would anyone use them and how can they be called legal?

Maybe because there are people around who care about their privacy ?

I mean.. sure.. there a lot of people like you who give their whole privacy away just for a few bucks (e.g. KYC for shitty tokens worth nothing).
Or by browsing with tracking cookies, or by installing the amazon browser plugin basically giving away your privacy for 10$.

Not everyone is like that.

erikalui

legendary

Activity: 2632

Merit: 1094

This is why bitcoin has got a bad name as these mixers enable to turn "tainted" coins into "clean" coins without asking for any proof. If this laundering of money is proved, then like bestmixer now chipmixer will be seized to shut down. It was this year when I learnt about mixers and felt they operate with a license but the main purpose of using these mixers i just to launder money else why would anyone use them and how can they be called legal?

hv_

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Quote from: bob123 on August 12, 2019, 04:40:52 AM

Quote from: hv_ on August 12, 2019, 04:36:42 AM

Sorry - talk with ur (potential) bank or finance Institute that should hanlde ur coins in any future

I won't let anyone handle / control my coins. Ever.

If you believe that banks are going to control and manage your BTC in the future, you didn't understand the philosophy of bitcoin yet.
Be your own bank implies to not let a bank manage your coins.

Bitcoin is a mean of payment, and not a speculative object. While quite a lot people see it as such, the utility behind it is what will change the world we live in.
Decoupling from banks does not work if you let them manage your coins.

Quote from: hv_ on August 12, 2019, 04:36:42 AM

Physical cash is different.

I think there are quite some things regarding the technical aspects of bitcoin you don't understand.

My argument is valid.

Good - I wish u good luck.

Original BitCoin was designed to work with ANY counterparty - and sorry - does include banks

arpon11

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Quote from: Kakmakr on August 11, 2019, 07:05:06 AM

This is a very stupid move and it might lead to the hacker being caught a lot quicker. A mixer service takes your coins and mix them with other people's coins, but the larger the amount of coins being mixed, the higher the chances that those coins might be mixed by the coins being send. It is rumoured that mixing services are less anonymous with larger amount of coins being mixed. Roll Eyes

So let's hope this backfires on them and that they dug their own grave by doing this. Tongue

The companies tracking these coins, might just have received a jackpot from these hackers bombarding a single mixer service with a lot of coins. Grin

If what you said is how mixing worked then I don't there is any privacy in it and those hackers will definitely going to be apprehended. Chipmixer should also helped in exposing the hackers as this will help in reducing laundry of Bitcoin and funds as this is one of the major reasons why those with bright mind and those that want things to be done right refused to support cruptocurrency adoptions. As for those blaming chipmixer in doing the mixing, remember that the interest is to make everything Anonymous as possible.

bob123

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Quote from: Red-Apple on August 12, 2019, 04:41:02 AM

i don't get one important thing about this whole article. how do they even figure out that the transactions belong to ChipMixer mixing services? it is not like they brand their transactions with their name! they can very well belong to any other exchange services out there.
they never explain this important part.

That's actually not that hard.
ChipMixer splits those coins into chips having fixed sizes.

You can determine whether they went to ChipMixer by looking at the outputs created. If you see X BTC being split into 0.1, 0.2, 0.4, etc.. UTXO's you can be pretty sure that they sent their coins to ChipMixer.

However, whether the coins were sent to a mixing service is not a privacy implication at all.
It would be problematic if you could trace which coins were sent back in exchange. But fortunately that's not the case with ChipMixer.

Red-Apple

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i don't get one important thing about this whole article. how do they even figure out that the transactions belong to ChipMixer mixing services? it is not like they brand their transactions with their name! they can very well belong to any other exchange services out there.
they never explain this important part.

bob123

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Quote from: hv_ on August 12, 2019, 04:36:42 AM

Sorry - talk with ur (potential) bank or finance Institute that should hanlde ur coins in any future

I won't let anyone handle / control my coins. Ever.

If you believe that banks are going to control and manage your BTC in the future, you didn't understand the philosophy of bitcoin yet.
Be your own bank implies to not let a bank manage your coins.

Bitcoin is a mean of payment, and not a speculative object. While quite a lot people see it as such, the utility behind it is what will change the world we live in.
Decoupling from banks does not work if you let them manage your coins.

Quote from: hv_ on August 12, 2019, 04:36:42 AM

Physical cash is different.

I think there are quite some things regarding the technical aspects of bitcoin you don't understand.

My argument is valid.

hv_

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Quote from: bob123 on August 12, 2019, 04:26:27 AM

Quote from: hv_ on August 12, 2019, 04:17:01 AM

Give me some realistic calc for how much % u ll end up holding tainted coins after the mix pls - I'd never ever put clean coins to risk !

That's not how bitcoin works.
There are no 'clean' and 'dirty' coins.

There can be UTXO with an illegal source, but after the next transaction they are not traceable anymore.

Image, you have 1 'dirty' bitcoin (input A) and 1 'clean' bitcoin (input B).
Now you create a transaction consuming both inputs and creating 4 outputs (0.5 BTC each; output W, X, Y, Z).

Which 2 outputs are 'clean' and which are 'dirty' ?
That question can not be answered.

Same applies to cash:
1 'dirty' 10$ bill and 1 'clean' 10$ bill. Now you exchange them to 4 5$ bills. You can't say which of them are 'clean' and which are 'dirty'.

Sorry - talk with ur (potential) bank or finance Institute that should hanlde ur coins in any future, where Adoption must go - or ur coin will join the Liberty Reserve history and Exit the gene pool

Learn: Due dilligence is what u CAN do with minimal effort.

Physical cash is different.

bob123

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Quote from: hv_ on August 12, 2019, 04:17:01 AM

Give me some realistic calc for how much % u ll end up holding tainted coins after the mix pls - I'd never ever put clean coins to risk !

That's not how bitcoin works.
There are no 'clean' and 'dirty' coins.

There can be UTXO with an illegal source, but after the next transaction they are not traceable anymore.

Image, you have 1 'dirty' bitcoin (input A) and 1 'clean' bitcoin (input B).
Now you create a transaction consuming both inputs and creating 4 outputs (0.5 BTC each; output W, X, Y, Z).

Which 2 outputs are 'clean' and which are 'dirty' ?
That question can not be answered.

Same applies to cash:
1 'dirty' 10$ bill and 1 'clean' 10$ bill. Now you exchange them to 4 5$ bills. You can't say which of them are 'clean' and which are 'dirty'.

hv_

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Quote from: BitHodler on August 11, 2019, 03:09:35 PM

Quote from: hv_ on August 11, 2019, 02:50:39 PM

Muh, mixers are just stupid. Its only good for criminal use. No decent user needs that at all. U might need to trace back all ur coin txs in case...

I'm not a criminal. I for example use a mixer when I need to make a purchase in Bitcoin and buy these coins through my local exchange. It gives me a peace of mind knowing that it provides me a layer of privacy I didn't have before.

Exchanges increasingly start to look at what you do with your coins after withdrawing them-- their banking partners can demand them to boot you off their platform, and they will definitely not go against that.

An example is Coinbase that has booted hundreds or maybe even thousands of users, all because they withdrew coins to a service their banking partners don't agree with. Mixers come in very handy here.

Give me some realistic calc for how much % u ll end up holding tainted coins after the mix pls - I'd never ever put clean coins to risk !

Topic: Binance Hackers Bombard Chipmixer to Launder at Least 4,836 BTC - page 6. (Read 6438 times)