Author

Topic: BitBay |Decentralized Marketplace|Smart Contracts|IoT Tech|Markets Open - page 164. (Read 339472 times)

hero member
Activity: 1540
Merit: 500
As there seems to be some confusion about staking from some who may not have had experience with PoS coins (and particularly PoS 2.0 staking) here are my findings/research/etc. from BlackCoin which definitely apply (as it's the first PoS 2.0):

In a PoS 1.0 coin you 'banked' coin-age and weight... i.e. if you have 1M coins which stake at 1% per year and you wait one year before unlocking and staking that wallet (actually one year plus 8 hours or whatever the minimum age is set to)... you will receive 10K coins as your staking reward - plus any fees awarded for the block, same as you will now actually.  However the difference is that this will occur nearly instantaneously in PoS 1.0 because your coins will have a very large weight (somewhere around 365 million in fact).  The problem with this is that it would potentially allow for a smaller holding wallet to be more likely to craft a 51% attack because once this wallet comes online to stake it will have a significantly higher weight than anyone who has been staking all along - even if that other person has 10M coins in their wallet (since those coins will likely have staked within the past day or so the 'competing weight' will be 36 times less despite representing a coin-value of 10 times more).

That this compounded the already widely discussed issues of PoW/PoS hybrid coins and the 'nothing-at-stake' issue caused a need for improvement.

To solve this Pavel (rat4) adjusted staking (in PoS 2.0 - see whitepaper) so that weight disregards coin-age... so that means that while your award can be made artificially large in a single transaction by keeping a wallet offline, and all coins in a single transaction - that wallet will have no greater possibility for solving a block than a similar sized wallet which has been online the entire time.  So someone has next to no possibility to 'guess' when their blocks will occur, simply by remaining offline - thus next to no possibility to use that maliciously to fork the chain and potentially double-spend (and all the more reason to stay online helping to secure the blockchain 24/7).  Wink

What this means for a normal wallet holder is that your holdings are the only thing making it more likely that you will 'win' your stake.  Someone with 10M BAY which is all mature will have a 10X greater chance of getting the next block than someone with 1M BAY does... and that person will have a similarly greater chance than someone with 100K BAY has. However, rest assured that once your turn occurs... even if that takes a month... than your award will be the appropriate size (somewhere around 0.000027397 per coin - or 1% divided by 365).  If it takes a month then you'll get 30 times as much once awarded... but it won't be any more likely to solve the next block than it was on day 1.

I think the problem many people are encountering is that a ton of BAY are still on BTER (or Bittrex now).  So those that moved coins into their wallets earliest had a very high probability of staking quickly - since competition for the blocks was limited.  As more and more people move their coins into the wallet and off of the exchange - this will naturally make the time between block awards longer as well, since more people are in the 'lottery' in the first place.

It may seem like it sucks... but it's actually making for a much, much more secure blockchain (and you get basically the same amount... just more coins less often). Smiley

Ultimately it would be great (security-wise) to see distribution so wide that none of us would get more than a few staking awards per year... but we're at least a couple million wallets away from that situation. LOL!

If I've confused something or made a mistake, please post a correction - it's been a long day.  Undecided

Thanks. that makes sense. I don't care if I receive it today or a month from now as long as I receive it.  

If person A is staking and it takes a month before he receives his reward. If he decides to sell his coins on day 29th. Would he still receive the reward on day 30th? It sounds like there is no way to tell  how long you'll have to wait before receiving reward?



sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
As there seems to be some confusion about staking from some who may not have had experience with PoS coins (and particularly PoS 2.0 staking) here are my findings/research/etc. from BlackCoin which definitely apply (as it's the first PoS 2.0):

In a PoS 1.0 coin you 'banked' coin-age and weight... i.e. if you have 1M coins which stake at 1% per year and you wait one year before unlocking and staking that wallet (actually one year plus 8 hours or whatever the minimum age is set to)... you will receive 10K coins as your staking reward - plus any fees awarded for the block, same as you will now actually.  However the difference is that this will occur nearly instantaneously in PoS 1.0 because your coins will have a very large weight (somewhere around 365 million in fact).  The problem with this is that it would potentially allow for a smaller holding wallet to be more likely to craft a 51% attack because once this wallet comes online to stake it will have a significantly higher weight than anyone who has been staking all along - even if that other person has 10M coins in their wallet (since those coins will likely have staked within the past day or so the 'competing weight' will be 36 times less despite representing a coin-value of 10 times more).

That this compounded the already widely discussed issues of PoW/PoS hybrid coins and the 'nothing-at-stake' issue caused a need for improvement.

To solve this Pavel (rat4) adjusted staking (in PoS 2.0 - see whitepaper) so that weight disregards coin-age... so that means that while your award can be made artificially large in a single transaction by keeping a wallet offline and all coins from a single transaction - that wallet will have no greater possibility for solving a block than a similar sized wallet which has been online the entire time.  So someone has next to no possibility to 'guess' when their blocks will occur, simply by remaining offline - thus next to no possibility to use that maliciously to fork the chain and potentially double-spend (and all the more reason to stay online helping to secure the blockchain 24/7).  Wink

What this means for a normal wallet holder is that your holdings are the only thing making it more likely that you will 'win' your stake.  Someone with 10M BAY which is all mature will have a 10X greater chance of getting the next block than someone with 1M BAY does... and that person will have a similarly greater chance than someone with 100K BAY has. However, rest assured that once your turn occurs... even if that takes a month... then your award will be the appropriate size (somewhere around 0.000027397 per coin - or 1% divided by 365 - multiplied by the coin-age).  If it takes a month then you'll get 30 times as much, once awarded... but it won't be any more likely to solve the next block than it was on day 1.

I think the problem many people are encountering is that a ton of BAY are still on BTER (or Bittrex now).  So those that moved coins into their wallets earliest had a very high probability of staking quickly - since competition for the blocks was limited.  As more and more people move their coins into the wallet and off of the exchange - this will naturally make the time between block awards longer as well, since more people are in the 'lottery' in the first place.

It may seem like it sucks... but it's actually making for a much, much more secure blockchain (and you get basically the same amount... just more coins less often). Smiley

Ultimately it would be great (security-wise) to see distribution so wide that none of us would get more than a few staking awards per year... but we're at least a couple million wallets away from that situation. LOL!

If I've confused something or made a mistake, please post a correction - it's been a long day.  Undecided
full member
Activity: 223
Merit: 100
I'm not receiving stake rewards for past few days (ever since I updated my wallet). I've been unlocking my wallet every day and leaving it on for 6+ hours. Today it shows that my weight is less than what it was in the begining (when I first installed the wallet). It was showing 59k and today it's showing 14k.

Am I the only one who is having issue with stake after installing new wallet?  Huh

Solution would be nice.
solution: leave it open for staking longer than 6 hours, bam problem solved!

I don't think that's an issue here. It was staking fine before I updated the wallet and most of the time I left it online for no more than 2 hours but all of a sudden I stopped receiving rewards. Today my weight decreased than what it was yesterday. It should increase, right?

I've reinstalled the wallet with no luck. I'll keep it online and I hope it automatically fixes itself.

Maybe leave open for more than 6hours would have been more helpful. Unusual we upgraded to POS 2 as you may know, i believe your detailed answer is here bud 2min read http://www.blackcoin.co/blackcoin-pos-protocol-v2-whitepaper.pdf

Issue has been going on before POS 2.0 upgrade. I'm not sure..I hope it fixes itself. I wouldn't care if I received less but I've received none since 19th (wallet upgrade)

Then the first answer you received from crypt stands, try leaving it for 12/24hours (once) if possible and update so someone can help if they see you still have problem. Leaving it for that time sorted mine. Your weight was 59k and the network weight was probably alot smaller 5 days ago which would answer why your weight is smaller against a larger network, I hope you understand

I did have issues after upgrade but they sorted in short time like yours will.
hero member
Activity: 1540
Merit: 500
I'm not receiving stake rewards for past few days (ever since I updated my wallet). I've been unlocking my wallet every day and leaving it on for 6+ hours. Today it shows that my weight is less than what it was in the begining (when I first installed the wallet). It was showing 59k and today it's showing 14k.

Am I the only one who is having issue with stake after installing new wallet?  Huh

Solution would be nice.
solution: leave it open for staking longer than 6 hours, bam problem solved!

I don't think that's an issue here. It was staking fine before I updated the wallet and most of the time I left it online for no more than 2 hours but all of a sudden I stopped receiving rewards. Today my weight decreased than what it was yesterday. It should increase, right?

I've reinstalled the wallet with no luck. I'll keep it online and I hope it automatically fixes itself.

Maybe leave open for more than 6hours would have been more helpful. Unusual we upgraded to POS 2 as you may know, i believe your detailed answer is here bud 2min read http://www.blackcoin.co/blackcoin-pos-protocol-v2-whitepaper.pdf

Issue has been going on before POS 2.0 upgrade. I'm not sure..I hope it fixes itself. I wouldn't care if I received less but I've received none since 19th (wallet upgrade)
full member
Activity: 223
Merit: 100
I'm not receiving stake rewards for past few days (ever since I updated my wallet). I've been unlocking my wallet every day and leaving it on for 6+ hours. Today it shows that my weight is less than what it was in the begining (when I first installed the wallet). It was showing 59k and today it's showing 14k.

Am I the only one who is having issue with stake after installing new wallet?  Huh

Solution would be nice.
solution: leave it open for staking longer than 6 hours, bam problem solved!

I don't think that's an issue here. It was staking fine before I updated the wallet and most of the time I left it online for no more than 2 hours but all of a sudden I stopped receiving rewards. Today my weight decreased than what it was yesterday. It should increase, right?

I've reinstalled the wallet with no luck. I'll keep it online and I hope it automatically fixes itself.

Maybe leave open for more than 6hours would have been more helpful. Unusual we upgraded to POS 2 as you may know, i believe your detailed answer is here bud 2min read http://www.blackcoin.co/blackcoin-pos-protocol-v2-whitepaper.pdf

Edit: Not an answer for why your stake weight is bouncing, mine has done the same though for a day or 2 after upgrade. I just left it and it fixed itself in a short time.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
Fair enough...but I answered the same question at the top of this page...; )

It's cool though...-thumbsup-
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
How many coins are unsold and burned by BTER after ICO? Does somebody know that?

Just curious...did you not read a few posts above yours?

Just lol...I'm shaking my head

I did a quick search about it inside this thread; but nobody talked about 'burned' or 'all sold out' coins so I simply asked a question and took my answer. There is nothing to lol Smiley
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
How many coins are unsold and burned by BTER after ICO? Does somebody know that?

Just curious...did you not read a few posts above yours?

Just lol...I'm shaking my head
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
How many coins are unsold and burned by BTER after ICO? Does somebody know that?

Everything sold out. No coins left to burn after ICO.

Thanks for quick response Smiley
hero member
Activity: 1540
Merit: 500
How many coins are unsold and burned by BTER after ICO? Does somebody know that?

Everything sold out. No coins left to burn after ICO.
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
How many coins are unsold and burned by BTER after ICO? Does somebody know that?
hero member
Activity: 1540
Merit: 500
I'm not receiving stake rewards for past few days (ever since I updated my wallet). I've been unlocking my wallet every day and leaving it on for 6+ hours. Today it shows that my weight is less than what it was in the begining (when I first installed the wallet). It was showing 59k and today it's showing 14k.

Am I the only one who is having issue with stake after installing new wallet?  Huh

Solution would be nice.
solution: leave it open for staking longer than 6 hours, bam problem solved!

I don't think that's an issue here. It was staking fine before I updated the wallet and most of the time I left it online for no more than 2 hours but all of a sudden I stopped receiving rewards. Today my weight decreased than what it was yesterday. It should increase, right?

I've reinstalled the wallet with no luck. I'll keep it online and I hope it automatically fixes itself.
sr. member
Activity: 460
Merit: 250
i am sorry if i missed this but i what is the minimum amount for the ico to be considered successfull?

Hi There

No minimum on the ICO. BitBay is going forward no matter what : -)  Any coins not sold will be burned in accordance with the OP.

thanks

BitBay Team
Just out of curiosity as I'm playing catch up here, we're all the initial coins sold or were any burned?

Sold out.

yes soldout but you can buy some for almost ico price on BTER, stock up before the next wallet release!
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
I'm not receiving stake rewards for past few days (ever since I updated my wallet). I've been unlocking my wallet every day and leaving it on for 6+ hours. Today it shows that my weight is less than what it was in the begining (when I first installed the wallet). It was showing 59k and today it's showing 14k.

Am I the only one who is having issue with stake after installing new wallet?  Huh

Solution would be nice.

I installed the new wallet when it came out...been staking like crazy.

Not sure what the issue is on your end but there isn't any problem with the wallet...
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
i am sorry if i missed this but i what is the minimum amount for the ico to be considered successfull?

Hi There

No minimum on the ICO. BitBay is going forward no matter what : -)  Any coins not sold will be burned in accordance with the OP.

thanks

BitBay Team
Just out of curiosity as I'm playing catch up here, we're all the initial coins sold or were any burned?

Sold out.
newbie
Activity: 34
Merit: 0
Hey guys, for anyone interested theres a livestream on now. Watch Australia's largest bitcoin meetup, The Bitcoin Address, streamed live tonight, featuring Andreas M. Antonopoulos, Tatiana Moroz and Pamela Morgan.

The livestream starts at 6pm (AEDT/GMT+11) on 25 November 2014, with Andreas speaking at 8.30pm (AEDT/GMT+11).

http://www.livestreamaustralia.com.au/bitcoin-address-2014/
cool, ty.
newbie
Activity: 12
Merit: 0
i am sorry if i missed this but i what is the minimum amount for the ico to be considered successfull?

Hi There

No minimum on the ICO. BitBay is going forward no matter what : -)  Any coins not sold will be burned in accordance with the OP.

thanks

BitBay Team
Just out of curiosity as I'm playing catch up here, we're all the initial coins sold or were any burned?
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
Hey guys, for anyone interested theres a livestream on now. Watch Australia's largest bitcoin meetup, The Bitcoin Address, streamed live tonight, featuring Andreas M. Antonopoulos, Tatiana Moroz and Pamela Morgan.

The livestream starts at 6pm (AEDT/GMT+11) on 25 November 2014, with Andreas speaking at 8.30pm (AEDT/GMT+11).

http://www.livestreamaustralia.com.au/bitcoin-address-2014/

sweet. thx for the link.
newbie
Activity: 12
Merit: 0
Our new website has just launched.

http://www.thebitbay.org/

What do you guys think?



Love it and I'm downloading the wallet now!
hero member
Activity: 495
Merit: 500
Hey guys, for anyone interested theres a livestream on now. Watch Australia's largest bitcoin meetup, The Bitcoin Address, streamed live tonight, featuring Andreas M. Antonopoulos, Tatiana Moroz and Pamela Morgan.

The livestream starts at 6pm (AEDT/GMT+11) on 25 November 2014, with Andreas speaking at 8.30pm (AEDT/GMT+11).

http://www.livestreamaustralia.com.au/bitcoin-address-2014/
Jump to: