Topic: BitBay OFFICIAL BITBAY Thread Smart Contracts Decentralized Markets Rolling Peg - page 272. (Read 542094 times)

Bob wasn't seen here for months
you should really take a closer look or just go away

shame.

this stupid coin is still alive and scammer is still active here.

Well of course i felt scammed... actually I felt much worse. I completely betrayed by humanity itself lol. But honestly, I'm not sure what I was expecting. There are some extremely corrupt and powerful forces in this world who have their eyes on crypto. It should have been obvious that I would meet some enemies if I planned on working in disruptive tech. Halo eliminates middle men. In a sense, almost everyone in society is a middle man. It obviates some laws by reducing frivolous lawsuits. Its the only type of "trusted" contract that can be used in an anarchy or during wartime.

It was to be expected.

Not only was I upset, I still get upset thinking about it. If I could get revenge I would... you probably don't want to know what went through my mind in terms of revenge haha.

But if I spent my life chasing down every asshole and bastard, I would get nothing useful accomplished. If one perishes, 3 more are born.

Think of it like a tree. The leaves start to die when the root is bad. If you don't cure the root of the problem you will never cure the leaves or the tree. You need to cure the entire tree.

Thats the whole point of decentralization. We focus on tech that takes pressure off of consumption and corruption. We want to take pressure off of the tree.

If you have unbreakable contracts, lying is not going to be as common in business.
If you have pegged currencies, you (attempt) to reduce greed and volatile markets.
If you have decentralized money, you eliminate unfair power structures.
If you 3d print homes out of dirt you house everyone.
If you 3d print products, you solve the consumption problem (less trucks on the road things go from design to end user)
If you have aquaponics and pink farming you give consumers a way to produce food in small spaces out of season and quickly
If you use spirulina you solve starvation
If you use water from air you solve drought (you can 3d print those structures too)
And 3d printed mesh networks solves decentralized internet and media
Open source 3d printed electronics solves the rest... (including cures for diseases using electro-resonance and free energy devices and robotics)

Automation and robotics can get rid of a lot of unnecessary jobs in society... society should not be forcing people to work jobs that robots can do.

Then you get to see the rise of robotics and automation and more happiness for everyone. This is the world we all want to see I think.
A true crypto enthusiast doesn't want chaos they want freedom combined with technology.   

Yes david I totally understand your POV. I know you don't want to think of yourself as being scammed but honestly if I was you and I had 1/5th of the dev funds to do all the development and the 4/5 went off to others who did nothing but try to harm this project I would feel scammed. Same for investors if we'd known only 1/5 of the donated BTC would go to the dev of the coin we would never invested.

However yes this needs to be put behind us (almost entirely because if we can nuke their bay wallets i would love that done) and move on to new ways for improving bay's community and market share.

For me BAY2 answers this better than any other solution put forward here.
I still see no down side to it.

However if nobody is interested in BAY2 i am totally up for discussion on other ways to push bay forward.

The pegging needs a couple of good exchanges to test it out on. I hope we can get enough volume by then to encourage them to list/test it.



I wonder how we can encourage more people to use the market place right now...

I don't really wish to drag you away from your work on this... I was hoping there would be other input and discussion from other Bay members.

cryptohunter2 I totally see what you are saying. The difference of Etherium is they appear to be developing, they have a fancy website, lots of marketing and community activity, and they appear to have some code for their beta all fresh code. BUT by Vitaliks own admission, they dumped their coins on the market to get more funds and by his own words he said they were running out of funding.

So that is an admission maybe not of a complete scam but at least of extreme greed and unethical mismanagement of funds. Its okay, if they deliver a product to be honest I don't care. For all I know Vitalik is in a similar situation that I was in, hes not the only one in the project. They seem to have 2 lawyers and 2 marketers for every coder.

Cryptohunter to be exact, i got 1/5th of 1000 btc (191 to be exact). The ICO did not raise 3000 btc but it only raised 1500. 500 of which Bob secretly kept for himself and his partner (by telling people the 500 was his own personal investment when it wasn't and asking Lin for a refund). So thats how it went down.

And even with their known shares of 200 they all kept it, Lin Steven etc and none of them helped me find developers and they other two instead of marketing paid people on bitcointalk to harm my reputation.

Thats as simple as i can describe it. I told everyone about it after only a few weeks in to the project after struggling with it privately. Steven promised me 10% of Bitbay before the project started, but he never said the Bitcoin from that 10% would get refunded to himself and Lin. So that was a major detail that was left out.

Regardless you guys all know the addresses of my coins and they havent moved and wont until I'm done pegging. And I've used it to pay bounties and surely can do more bounties.


To be honest, I see absolutely no reason to look at investors or myself as victims. It sucks sure, but life isn't fair and in the end we rely on our own strength to get out of bed in the morning. And also, you don't lose what you don't sell. Crypto is known to be a very high risk investment. However, look at this in a positive way, if we finish there is a really good chance the market cap spikes tremendously as long as we can find an exchange and the protocol tested thoroughly.

So you know, the is absolutely never a reason to look back. I was dwelling on it for a few months and it just made me sad and prevented me from working. So how can that be right? No, the only thing to do is move forward always.

Be the change you want to see in others right?

By the way, scope creep is a really important problem to avoid in programming. Its the problem of trying to have too many features and then keep adding them. Its the reason most projects fail.

After I started coding I realized I was guilty of scope creep. And that is exactly why I now know that delivering the product finished is what matters. If for example I add a shipping calculator but then decide I want to price track that too and do 10 more things with the template? Thats scope creep.

Ive decided on the design of the templates, I think the coins for cash one is really awesome. Could it link into online banks and do wire transfers and link into western unions site or stuff like that? Sure, but that would be scope creep.

And honestly, I think the software is extremely user friendly. The setup wizard is good, people now know how the markets wallet works. The coins for cash and buying your first Bitbay is the first thing you see in the wallet. All the panels expand for advanced users. Its been a lot of work for me to get the UI that way.

So the only thing I can do as a coder is not try to do more than I already have in front of me. To focus and do one task per day if needed. Be patient and not get upset if I lose a few days and just stay positive and work a minimum number of hours in the day just like any day job.

Hi - but with a fully transparent holding wallet that is multi sig and has full ledger there is no room for sceptics?

Yes i certainly prefer david remains coding for BAY and without the news of BAY2 or any other big news at this moment the need for a spider is not urgent.

Well am not familiar with scope creep ? is this the scope of the project grows away from the core important things we are going for?

reduced freedom? can you explain more about how BAY2 would reduce freedom. Surely it would increase freedom since we are now bound by finances and man power.

TBH i would enjoy peoples sceptical comments regarding BAY2 - it would be great to prove them wrong whilst increasing awareness and bringing in new members to the community. Like I said if we sold only 10% of BAY 2 what will we have lost? but I think there is a good chance we can get another 1000BTC and hundreds of members if it goes well.

I mean yes even suggesting another ICO for BAY will be met with huge reaction on the board. This would be fantastic. It will be an ideal opportunity to show how honest we are with full ledger and full transparency. Whilst getting a lot of attention to the project.

It is very important to remember all the ICO investors and holder are victims as is david. We are not like the scammers but the scammed. There is no harm in doing essentially a return on investment opportunity. You will see no donations you can be sure of that. I have been on too many coins in the past to know this will not happen. Doge was the only exception to that rule and that was from people i think that had 100's of millions of doge and didnt mind parting with a little.

I have great faith in BAY and will hold my coins and increase as i can regardless of the size of community or speed of the project. However it would be great to have some activity in this community since it's seems so unfair that it does not get the attention it deserves or even close.

I don't think BAY2 is the way to go. People are very sceptical about ico's. Rightfully so imo. And with Bay's history... David and I have discussed alternatives, but for now we have concluded not to pursue any of them. Main reasons being scope creep and/or reduced freedom.

I like your spider idea, but David is the only one on the team that could build one. I prefer he spends his time coding market and pegging, don't you? Does it have to be a spider? Can't be more than a days work to do it manually.

Hey, thanks for that. Yep a boot strap is so useful for new bay members. It took me days to sync from the start.

What do you think of the idea of BAY2?

Also do we have anyone of the core team who could develop a spider to get a list of person that posted on the first bay thread and this one and compile a list for a mass message to be sent out if we want to get some awareness that the project is still going strong and to discuss possible ways to increase the interest in BAY?

We don't have a BAY foundation for now, but we do have a core team of dedicated members. I'm one of them.
We have a link to bootstrap in OP under useful links. Not sure when it was last updated. I'll look into it.

I totally agree with you David and i think the only reason people call BAY a scam and not etherium is this.


Etherium have dumped their coins but have said they are using them for development. Yes we don't really have any transparency or any ledger for seeing what exactly they are doing with them. This is not good at all.

However with BAY - it was a direct scam. I was scammed David so were the other ICO investors and even more than we were scammed YOU were scammed with us to a great extent.

You see Etherium even if it is a secret scam we can't prove it yet. They say they are using the funds for development and development is happening.

With BAY on the other hand if my knowledge is correct you only got 1/5 of the development fund. So the other 4/5 went to people that were meant to be developing or marketing but instead of that they took their huge chunks of BTC and huge chunks of BAY and just scammed the rest of us and gave nothing back in return. So yes BAY was a scam because it is obvious to us all those others running the ICO did nothing. In fact i think they just used you and your name in crypto to scam us all.

To be fair as the core developer I would have insisted on being in control of way more than 1/5 of the development fund or at least had it all in multisig wallets. However this is in the past. You were scammed we were all scammed. Imagine though David you had 3000BTC right now?

Surely that and having a comminty that didn't think they had just been raped behind you (excuse the pun) ... would be driving force enough to put BAY way ahead of where it is now. Now I take you point entirely that another core dev is perhaps beyond what money can buy right now because the new dev would have to work efficiently with you to make it worth while.

However surely there are non core tasks that we could hire teams of people to take care of on a pay on completion agreement.

Not to mention payment for all kinds of managers for ROI projects etc. I mean there are a 10000 and one things people can do if you have the correct team around you that have a vested interest in the success of a coin.

I obviously have no say in what happens but I don't understand how dilution makes any difference if price/interest rises accordingly.

I think it is time for a second ICO...this time funds are held in a totally transparent wallet with a full ledger detailing exactly how the btc were spent.

BAY2 - new coin for sale on poloniex or bittrex..

these new 1billion BAY2 are locked down until the pegging has been completed. But as a reward for investing in the project you will get to buy your bay2 at a rate lower than the current market rate of BAY1. this rate can be altered by the community and you as we see fitting to the interest and demand for bay2. Bay 2 can be removed from sale totally whenever we think that is best. They are really like long term investment tokens and who can say when they are no longer needed and could be removed from sale.

Of course from the sold BAY2 - your share (david) will automatically be the same % as you had from BAY1 so your incentive remains the same to see BAY succeed. All BTC raised will go to development and marketing as decided on by you and the community jointly. You are gaining no more or no less in terms of bay but you will be gaining a pot of BTC and new interest in the project.

I really see no downside. There is no real pressure to sell BAY2 at any rate. I mean if the pegging is done and we have only sold 250M BAY it really wont matter because that would have been BTC and interest in the project we would have never had and the other 750M is just destroyed. If we only sold 100M ...does it matter? what have we lost. But imagine the interest spiked and so did demand and we sold another 500M at a much higher rate...then we may perhaps consider we need to sell no more and burn the other 500M anyway? it is very flexible for us.

It is really only a way of getting donations/interest with a possible nice return on them.

I see no downside to this at all. But then I'm not that smart so perhaps there is one that I am not seeing?

I would like to see a reasonable and logical discussion on doing this. Perhaps I'm missing something obvious that makes it a crazy idea and I'm just not seeing it as yet?

Also any bay wallets that we can prove belong to the original scamsters should be nuked. I believe some were given huge amounts of BAY1. They of course will not be getting a share of BAY2 without buying in but still I don't think they should get any benefit from our hard work in the future.

Is there a BAY foundation or core of dedicated members that I don't know about?

I never go on the slack. Slack is okay for technical discussion - I can contribute nothing in that area I'm afraid.

All other discussion in my opinion are best done on thread so that we can keep the community visibly active for newly interested ones.

Is there a reliable bootstrap for our wallet anywhere? If not would be great to get a link to one up in the OP for new bay members to get synced up and running.

The amount needed to raise for a serious software development project to be honest a few million is a minimum. What Etherium raised was surely enough... it was sickening to hear they dumped their coins on the market to give themselves more money. Vitaliks own admission, he said they were running out of money (how? it sounds like gross mismanagement). And people accused Bitbay of being a scam? Holy hell, if Etherium can sell their own coins on the market after already selling 15 million dollars with vaporware how is that fair. Very good coders are hard to find so in order to pay devs you need to raise big money. There has been many articles on this exact subject. There is a lot of venture capitalists putting money into crypto but the problem is, they cant find the developers! So consider that a good developer is at least 100K+ a year. Really, a crypto dev might be double that or more.

So the only way the ICO would have worked is if the guys who started pitched in anything. The funny thing is as most of you know, I was already in Asia and was already hiring devs for the NightTrader exchange. So the guys who started this didnt even help me hire even though they promised me that Lin would help find coders from BTER and China etc... it was just all lip service (along with their promise that at least 500 btc would start in the dev fund).

But there is no point looking back on it, now i know in the future to be more careful who i license my software to. I also know now that I should have been asking for much more up front and to carefully look over their finances. I had just never gotten offered a deal that I liked and when they asked me to get involved with this one they made a lot of promises and I didn't want to lose the deal so I just didn't ask enough questions early on.

The good part of it is, i really believe in the rolling pegging system. This could all be a blessing in disguise. I'm a huge believer of turning negatives into positives. Sort of like a midas touch. When I complete the pegging system it will be the first time ever that an electronic asset can protect its own value and it might give the rise to private blockchains that are more resistant to price drops.

As for rewarding members of the community, im happy to set up a bounty for people to help connect me to bloggers, crypto article publishers etc so we can publish more articles on bitbays pegging. That will also increase interest and volume i think.

I can write content for bloggers, i was even thinking of going outside of standard crypto scenes for just every day writers. This group of investors needs more PR.


As for fund raising? I think smaller community bounties is the best. Software developers is something we simply can't afford. I might look for some in Mexico since I'm not far, the prices are good and I speak spanish. For something like that, if I find it, will certainly let you guys know and I can pay out of pocket... but we could in theory get funds together for that since it would be cheaper.

But there is no point in speculating about more devs unless we can find them and over the years ive given up trying and resorting to coding myself as usual.

Another thing is, my experience with low priced developers is, they are not good for this kind of project. Since Bitbay and Halo is extremely complex coding, this is the sort of thing that money cant buy. The devs have to be taught or monitored 24/7 they definitely cant work remotely.

I've noticed that if I'm training devs, I'm not coding... which resulted in the waste of money and time when i tried to hire help. Unfortunately, I've yet to find a dev that can contribute a single line of code :/


As we already spoke about it, I dont think diluting the amount of bay makes sense since the goal is just to finish the software... but i do like the idea of some new bounties and definitely better PR/journalists.

Nobody will donate anything as is always the case. Perhaps we'd raise 0.1 btc from donations. To be honest why would anyone donate time or effort when the rest of community will donate zero and reap the same rewards? We have to talk about incentives here and long term plans.

There needs to an incentive - nobody will donate but there will always be interest from investors.


The fact we have

1. 100% proven developer who is skilled and honest
2. a product that is already a good away there
3. a coin that practically nobody is aware of that if they were aware of and it's possiblities they would be very interested in having a share in it.
4. a bunch of holders that once believed in the project and still for the most part retain their coins...and that are willing to invest in a good opportunity.


We have quite a few options.

But normal donations will NEVER work.

If we diluted your share in BAY by 2 but increased the price in BAY by 2x then you have lost nothing at all.

If we diluted your share in BAY by 2 but increased the price in BAY by 10X then i have 5x your money.

I believe it is not essential to dilute your share even as much as by 2 and increase the Price of BAY by 100X or 1000X

Of course if you want to increase you bay worth in USD terms by 1000X then you will all need to work at it a little bit and get involved.

Infact if you were smart you would increase your share in BAY and assist in increasing the price of BAY by 1000x or more.

It depends if you believe in David and his talent at the end of the day. I do and will do more than my fair share.

Of course when people mention figures like x 100 x 1000 it sounds like fantasy. But in crypto these returns are possible given the correct conditions.

We have to start preparing for marketing. What we really need is a list of ppl/sites  that we should send press releases to. Can anyone please help us with that?

Good to see some initiative 
A fund raising would be most welcome of course...
We already have a marketing fund that could need more donations: B6HtsEuEQfzJTsf751xFj11DpuFjzQfgiS
If anyone prefers to donate btc, just say so. We will make an address.

Other then donating there are other ways to help out as well. We have a lot of work that needs to be done that doesn't require coding skills. Most of all we need help writing articles and get them published.

For those that want to help but don't know what to do you could help getting our name out there by tipping Bay on twitter.

i think a boost in marketcap would give everyone a lift and get people "interested" again, not to mention motivate David more (not that he isnt but you know what i mean)

I got to thinking David - since the intial ICO was a total scam, and you were left with basically nothing except your BAYs and a few btc (which really was for smartcontracts software which you have given to bay already) to fund the rest of the development of bit bay as opposed to say etherium that got 18M dollars worth of BTC... what amount of BTC would it take to get you going with hiring the devs and setting up some decent marketing for BAY? would be nice to have a marketing guy /graphics webdesign i mean a team instead of just you having to arrange and do it all really.

I mean there is away we could raise a reasonable amount of BTC... If you could outline how many BTC it would take and a plan of how it would be used to best effect i think there is a possible way we could raise this?

If there were away to

1. increase interest/awareness and belief
2. Increase dev funding - totally transparent and a ledger - released only in agreement with community for confidence and involvement..
3. get volume up and on to other larger exchanges
4. reward those  who still believe and support the project - with real viable rewards.

surely those would be good things?

Perhaps we can get BAY to where is should have been if the ICO wasn't a totally scam resulting in the bay ico investors and you getting shafted...and those 3000BTC had been put to devs, marketing, projects ...just think where BAY would have been.

What was the ICO price is sats for BAY - i forget now?


I think something can be done. But how many BTC would we need to raise to make it worth while?

Of course it's not all about the BTC i mean generating interest and new belief in the project is as important..

That's true I'd forgotten we'll all be voting for inflation or deflation.

Well considering miners will vote for inflation and deflation, we could probably have them use that info to cast votes. Or even pay out to voting addresses. Its not the kind of thing i will support in the beta launch of pegging. But obviously since we stake from the client its certainly possible

I notice this thread is getting more attention lately. Be good to build the community up to a nice size to support the work david is doing.

David is it possible to put voting in the wallet? i've often heard some communities can vote on thing through their wallet? however i've never found any coins that can do this? is that just nonsense?