Topic: BitBay OFFICIAL BITBAY Thread Smart Contracts Decentralized Markets Rolling Peg - page 57. (Read 542196 times)

Everything you say is right.
But it doesn't change the fact that NOW Cryptos are mostly interesting for speculators and the participants of unregulated markets. - Even if you don't like it, it's still reality.

What will happen sometime in ten years is something completely different again.

Who wants to create a basis not only for speculators orients itself at the concrete need.
It doesn't help anyone to offer the right product at the wrong time.

The merchant base of Open Bazaar by the way does not grow either. You may guess why not.

Cryptos are needed wherever honesty is required or expected, to execute truthful financial or barter transactions.
This means regulated or unregulated markets can both benefit from the block-chain technology.
DE-centralized Crypto’s are logged on a profound record that cannot be altered, lost or destroyed.

Crypto’s are needed where people can not get a bank or PayPal account.
Crypto’s are needed for those who can not qualify for a credit card, etc.

The world is waking up to the financial shenanigans of “the state(s)”.
State Crypto’s, i.e. Centralized Cryptos, are simply electronic fiat; subject to the same rules as paper fiat – only it’s digital.
Centralized Crypto's = Same players = Same problems.  That’s reality.

Bay is for a farmer in India that wants to trade wheat for gold; an African who wants to trade corn for a tractor or an American wants to trade silver for real estate, etc. None of these individuals want to do anything “illegal”. This is who Bay is for. This is not a waste of time and energy – this is a great cause.

Thul – if you want to participate in illegal activities or not report your earnings to pay taxes, well that is on you.
You should just stick with Monero or continue giving Open Bazaar your “expert” advice.

Please do not come here to encourage illicit behavior or thinking, simply because that is what YOU desire.
Do not assume everyone is like you.

As a matter of fact, since you are so smart and want to focus on unregulated markets – you should start your own unregulated crypto-currency, so you don’t have to fret or worry about what Bay is doing. Call it: Thul Unregulated Market Coin.

This is currently the only market for merchants and consumers where cryptos are really needed.
So this is the target group on which the focus should be directed.

Maybe, maybe not.
Knowing the people, they rather trust the propaganda of the state.

The IMF recommends state crypto currencies. When they come, the ideas of Bitbay and other cryptos are integrated very quickly - as long as they benefit the ruling class.

I don't want to hope that here in the management of Bitbay there are also such sectarians who have lost sight of reality.

Free, private currencies are compatible with unregulated markets.
Non-free, state currencies correspondingly with regulated markets.

Any other orientation in development and marketing is a waste of time and energy.

To make that clear: The exponentially growing unregulated markets have the potential to change the world positively. Among other things, they do not finance state global terror.

Bay’s Roadmap has been very visible(?) now for a very long time, nothing is hidden. Obviously, the dedicated team of very hard-working professionals working on the project for 4 years + has no desire to make money on the hype. That already happened 4-5 years ago when another team controlled the project! They are now gone.

Since then, for many years, there is a new team in place whose goals are to promote freedom for all, create solid contracts and eliminate the middleman and all user fees. This project has continued to develop quite well through the past Bull and now Bear cycle we are now temporarily in… and this too shall pass.

All Bay needs now is users. Everything is in place and FAR ahead of the competition with a solid working platform and Wall of Features from which to build.  And no, they do not need to focus on an unregulated black market for success. Once the people of the world wake up to what has been built and is available at Bay, I think Bay's success will be guaranteed.

Also, it is always humorous to read the opinions of others (Thul / Ivanovmoscow) who have ZERO knowledge of what has gone into producing Bay so far; and then have the exalted hubris to tell the developers - who have put their heart, soul, money and lives at stake, what THEY think this coin should become. And, offering their expert(?) opinions (what have they ever created?) after they themselves just showed up to a party that’s been going on for years. Really funny stuff. Negative Trolls is All They Be.

Bit Bay should/will be in the top 10 crypto’s - they just need users.

Roadmaps plans look pretty well visible now that the project has an idea and not just a quick desire to make money on the hyip. I will see how the project will develop in such a falling market. Your success depends on it.

Today team release another update to the BitBay Qt wallet with new GUI features in preparation for the upcoming Dynamic Peg.

Available to download now:

https://bitbay.market/downloads

In a few years there will be state crypto currencies and on this basis state-regulated blockchain solutions and smart contracts will be developed. At the latest then private coins will become completely uninteresting for the masses.

I can therefore only advise you once again to concentrate your marketing and advertising exclusively on that area for which private crypto currencies are indispensable: the unregulated market.

If you manage to make Bitbay as attractive to the unregulated market as ebay/amazon is to the regulated market, but without its limitations, the success of this project should be guaranteed.

It is interesting to note that even after one year Open Bazaar has not succeeded in attracting suppliers and customers from the centralized, unregulated markets. Why this is so should be analyzed...

Thanks for posting that. Still looking good for Bay!

An important update regarding the BitBay official roadmap and goals for 2018/2019

https://medium.com/@bitbay/bitbay-community-update-19th-november-2018-16f4c20a6ef9

Thanks,
Shorn

And THIS is the big deal out of all of it! This is still the "game changer" that will be getting more and more attention as things mature.

The goal of the contracts is to rid society of deception by creating a contract that almost always favors honest parties.

Right now I'm testing the exchange peg code and making some sample API calls so anoxy can start to build a demo market we can trade on with testnet version of our fork. Then it's game on with the peg! We have waited 4 years for this.  

So what I mean is, you will see pretty soon when I fix Linux which will release with this next build. Unless you want to run Wine. And also there is many users here who will more than happy to test contracts with you just for fun.

There are not usually "shops" unless they are private markets. Users usually just post to main markets with the user friendly templates. We have Cash for coins buy/sell which is like peer to peer local bitcoins with double deposit and price tracking with stop losses and control over minimum and maximum order sizes with almost any funding method you can come up with that's irreversible.

Then there is the buy/sell template which has auctions/reverse auctions (where sellers bid for buyers) and just general sales with shipping options and a fedex shipping scraper/calculator for estimating big packages. Again all peer to peer no servers.

Then there is the employment templates which you can hire or find jobs. These work with automated payments based on the submission of "reports" or milestones so you can't get paid without it. Then they auto-renew extending the time and notarizing it on the chain.

Then there is barter which lets you set "wish lists" and "supply lists" and you can keep those orders open almost indefinitely so it's like an online garage sale where people can just barter anything like crops, metals, goods, services, etc. What makes that template so sexy is it will calculate all of this for you. So it knows how many pounds of oranges you need for how many pounds of grapes and how many hours of math lessons you need based on what users self appraise their services and even lets you offer things not in someones wish list. I always imagined it for farmers or swap meets.

Lastly there is custom contracts where you just say whatever you want and Python contracts where you can program your own using the Python language and there are no limits but users must self audit code so they better know what they are doing if they want to accept one that isn't in the "approved list" of contracts. These are cool because people can do games, perhaps options, perhaps specific templates for their companies, whatever they really feel like making

What we are lacking is users. We definitely need more orders posted. I figure maybe someone will want to resell items eventually from other markets to build up the supply. We aren't focused on that yet because the peg now takes priority.

By the way you can see training videos, screenshots and other things at our site at bitbay.market

You should do more to bring the Bitbay market to the public.

So I still have no idea what it looks like at all.
How does a shop present itself? Like a single article? How do you set up an article?  What are the options?

It is not enough that your market solution is better. You have to define a target group and focus marketing/advertising on this target group.
This is the key to Bitbay's success.

Don't try to compete with ebay/Amazon's target group. No chance. At this point OB also stagnates. It simply does not go on.

That's not how Bitmessage works though, it's not a blockchain. There are ways to scale it because a lot of the data is expendable. I do know how it behaves which is why I chose to use it and I was one of the ones to encourage them to continue development on it when it was almost abandon-ware. Third party image providers are a decent solution for now, fpaste in anonymous and you can also consider using markdown for images and just link them. Just realize that this is the better way because to scale the system those images can't be hosted. If they are then something like IPFS is interesting.

OB is really not my cup of tea to be honest. I would never use third party escrow and I'm very surprised that people do this when almost half of all Bitcoins have been stolen due to exchange or escrow loss. Especially because of the extra cost and anonymity of Bitcoin. Also it sort of used to bother me that we have had the first decentralized markets a year before them and yet the news doesn't really care to talk about it. Perhaps they fear it because of 2 party escrow?! Not totally sure why but then again I stopped caring and kept working.

We have tried to convince OB to use 2 party escrow even since before their inception when they first started. However they are set in their ways. Our markets indeed are unregulated because they are owner-less and nobody pays commission and they are peer to peer. I'm just the janitor mopping the floors and tweaking the code per se. I'm very happy that we are so far ahead when it comes to 2 of 2 escrow so when people realize how badly they need it they will have a plethora of information to mine from us here.

So there's nothing that can be said about effectiveness and reliability, at least that's how I understand it.
The whole thing is so far only an experiment?

Combined search (shoes, leather) is therefore not yet possible.

Also you don't know how the Bitmessage network behaves when thousands of shops, tens of thousands of offers and even more photos (third party providers like imgur etc. are no solution) have to be downloaded to every computer. 

Bitmessage is slow. I don't think people would like to synchronize themselves with the network for hours, that means to download all current offers.

Possibly I don't understand the whole process. I will probably have to take a look at it first.

OB is already a fine thing, although there is still a lot to be done.
The centralized search via search provider is a no go. They would like to change it, but they don't know how.
From the little advantageous 2 of 3 Escrow they will probably not disengage.
A combined search there would be desirable and of course an extensive categories and subcategories management.

How would it be if you worked together? From my point of view cooperation instead of confrontation is more effective.

OpenBazaar's target group is more the regulated market, while you should turn to the exponentially growing unregulated market. The latter also makes more sense for non-state crypto currencies. - So you won't get in each other's way with the different target group orientation.

Haha true. Sorry about that. I get a bit fired up talking about double deposit escrow.

Yes the system is efficient. You download all of the orders which are in the network for 48 hours. Remember it's Bitmessage so nobody really knows the contents of a channel order except the ones who are able to decrypt it. So when you search you are searching the listings on your computer.

When it gets to be fairly large I assume people will start their own channels and post there which will take pressure off the main channel. However it's worth pointing out that those channels are anonymous if you don't have the name of the channel. However perhaps eventually those can be shared to a basic search engine or something to be properly indexed.

As for Bitmessage scaling on it's own I'm not sure what it's limit for traffic is but that is a pretty good question. I had hypothesized that the network can be split up because the data is usually trivial. However I admit that requires further research.

That was a very detailed statement, but unfortunately none of my questions were answered. 

You don't have to convince me of 2 of 2 Escrow. I recommended this to the developers of OB a year ago.
Since the mentioned difficulties already existed there several times, they now have a selection of verified moderators.

Well the whole concept of OpenBazaar is really not a good one in my opinion. Simply because they use 3rd party escrow. This is a horrible problem because it gives them liabilities, cost overruns, absolutely no competitive edge over Amazon or other services and most importantly it's easy to anonymously steal escrows because in a 2 of 3 system all you need to do is get lucky enough to get assigned to your own deals secretly and then just spend from all your escrow accounts.

2 of 2 escrow such as in BitHalo and BitBay not only stops theft but it disincentivizes deception. So one thing I think you might be overlooking is that we aren't just limited in scope to sales of goods.

It's true that sales of goods on this platform come with no liabilities or fees and greatly reduce shipping scams (making them almost profitless)... however we can help so many industries with this. Here are some examples:

Using 2 of 2 escrow you can do a real estate deal without notary. In fact, BitBay was used for one of the first crypto related real estate purchases in US history and definitely the first without the need of escrow. This has a major benefit in other countries that don't use escrow. For example in Mexico I bought land and the entire deal went through the notary. It was a bit funny to me considering there was no guarantee to the recipient that my check would clear or anything. So imagine how much they would benefit from this. There is so many deals for example that run through what is called "Ejido" which is community owned and are pretty much scams most of the time unless the paperwork is air tight. The double deposit system would help a person transition the property away from the ejido if they wanted title.

The problem with weak title is epidemic all over the world. This is a huge deal that we can help solve even if people don't realize it.

Also what about shipping? I had a friend who lost hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical equipment and spent years trying to recover the loss in court. This just wasted his time and money and stress too. With 2 party escrow the need for an insurance provider can be totally bypassed!! With guys who do huge 6 or 7 figure deals in volume they would save tremendous money on either having a smaller insurance policy or none at all.

Also there is Telcom industry. They have issue with selecting banks and routing calls all over the world and choosing escrows for wires and all kinds of things.

There is probably hundreds of industries that suffer from having to agree on ways to safely route wire transfers. And of course Bitcoin being one of them. Consider that using 2 of 2 escrow not only can someone else guarantee the deal for someone else, but they could do wires with almost zero risk of fraud bridging the gap between crypto and fiat or really any industry that is heavily reliant on wires.

Then there is outsourcing. It's absolutely a pain in the ass to have employees that don't do what they promise, come late to work, exaggerate their credentials, etc. This software again by forcing a bond from the employee will cause them to get penalized. Of course this a major benefit to the construction industry, to outsourcing, to extremely important jobs that must get completed, etc.

We could spend hours talking about how many industries need 2 party double deposit escrow but they just don't know it yet. People are so used to getting stolen from that they enthusiastically line up at crypto exchanges despite constantly getting taken for billions and billions of dollars with no end in sight.

If this market was mature enough to see it, we wouldn't even have to market to anyone and devs would flock to help us for free and investors would come in droves. But unfortunately people are too busy making Dogecoin or Truckcoin or Ferengicoin or Flappybirdcoin or whatever other bullshit traders are wasting their time buying. Lets not forget the fancy ICOs where guys dress up in really sharp looking suits and promise that the blockchain will mow peoples lawn, walk their dog and teach their kids algebra or whatever other nonsense they need to make up in order to get free Bitcoins.

With our software it's not limited to sales like Open Bazaar. In fact we are more like Craigslist than OB. Since people can use the templates to Barter and form a farm co-op or trade anything, do services, sell goods, auctions, reverse auctions, write their own templates etc. This is why we can't pidgeon hole into the deep web or some niche crypto market because there is so many industries that could use what we have developed.

The BitBay coin is just a catalyst for the ideas that we have preached for years. It started on BitHalo and then a strange twist of fate put me in this project. Now with the peg we also have a very unique addition to the blockchain and as long as the volume is there and exchanges are friendly to us, will help get rid of the volatility that has distracted the entire market.

Of course I'm open to criticism that's how the software got to this point. I was the only coder for 4 years and only recently have we expanded our team. So now we have a guy doing a refactor and converting the peg logic to c++ and also guys doing the web version of the Halo markets.

There is no other software that has such a long list of working features and that is what has kept this community together for so long. We are trying to popularize the idea of double deposit 2 party escrow and decentralized markets and the peg.

When people critique the software we don't always implement those changes due to time restraints but now that I'm finally finished it might be easier to maintain things than it was to invent the entire platform from scratch. There does need to be a point where innovation stops and marketing and partnerships and adoption begin. I feel like we have to bridge that divide sooner than later considering how competitive things are getting.

Anyways, the Linux build I'm updating with the new and final release of the software which will have the peg exchange logic. This will be in the next update and right now I'm just testing things. So that will be within this month.

By offering goods and services that are not available on the regulated Fiat markets.