Topic: BitBay OFFICIAL BITBAY Thread Smart Contracts Decentralized Markets Rolling Peg - page 59. (Read 542196 times)

Thanks for spotting that Cryptohunter! It was indeed a typo that crept in somehow ...

Thanks for the update Shorn, great job to everyone in development.

Have to add my support for what you said about David, he is a rare find. Someone with integrity who does what he says he will and has the skill to pull it off is a rare thing indeed in these waters. If David says it is so, than count on it.

Great article. Thanks for posting. Bay is moving a great turn of pace now that most other projects I follow would be jealous of.

Just one thing..

first line says As we are already a dew few

is dew few an expression or a typo?

Our latest community update is out now, featuring an October roadmap review and a look at what's to come in November.

Featuring the Community Projects Initiative, updates for the web marketplace and dynamic peg and more...

https://medium.com/@bitbay/bitbay-roadmap-update-95ab4dcba63

Thanks,
Shorn.

It's pretty much impossible to say where we will settle at price-wise.

The "vote by algorithm" option is initially set to target 0.00001 of Bitcoin's current ATH in USD (or roughly $.20/bay). So those who vote with the algorithm will be voting towards that particular goal. Eventually users will be able to create and use their own algo which can be set at a custom target, based on personal preference... (for example one that tracks various trading chart metrics etc.)

This price target doesn't take into account the other voting options of deflate, inflate, or maintain, which other users might select. So it's impossible to say exactly what price we'll initially find support at.

That being said, it will be able to adjust the supply at a maximum of 21% per day... and I have a feeling most users won't be voting for inflation right at the start, but who knows.

Thanks.
Do we know approximate price of coin, is it already decided?

Peg testing is finished, and the team is now getting it ready to integrate it with the exchanges.

At what level are we for pegging process?
testing has finished?

Images are immanently important. If they are good and show many details that is half the sale. This is also what my shop on OpenBazaar shows, where people probably only come for the optical layout and professional product photos.

The bottleneck of OpenBazaar are their search providers. They are the only central point over which the offers can be censored. The search engine of the developers does the same. Illegalized products are not found there. Differently with "Blockbooth" (https://blockbooth.com/search/) here also illegal articles are found within the app, however again no more on the web page (see link).

A project like OpenBazaar could be perfectly integrated into the concept of Byteball. Byteballs "witnesses", however, should not be limited in number, routed via TOR and randomly connected to the network. So the search engines could easily be hidden within these witnesses and would be censorship resistant.
Unfortunately, all thoughts brought in by the community are ignored. The developer prefers to do his own thing, although for months now one useless gimmick after another has been coming out of it..

I still can't say anything about Bitbay. I have no idea how shops and their products present themselves there.

So yeah the way I handle images is a little bit of a hack. We post them on fedorapaste because it's anonymous and didn't need API key. OK that is clearnet but people can always link images if they want. And also we do have a TOR option for clearnet requests. Bitmessage is too slow for images. However, in case we have to fall back on it I compress jpegs to very small sizes like 10kb before even posting so as to not spam fedora and if it's down or deactivated then we can still send over Bitmessage.

What most people don't notice is how much their security was considered in the design. And so many people want to cut corners to get commercialism instead. Also I noticed your comments about anonymous transactions and I always felt that the best way to do this is just use Bitmessage for broadcasting the TX. This way the IP is always different as you ask other nodes to submit for you at random. Just forwarding the TX to other nodes so you aren't the one broadcasting all the time.

The best anonymity is Zcash though. Although the problem with that is the setup must be trusted on some level to make proofs non-interactive.

As for the offers we have wanted to list them on the site but it's low hanging fruit. Sometimes there is cool stuff on there like gems, coins, land, games, etc. It's had a pretty interesting set of sellers come by. However yeah I mean the lack of items does make it hard to gain traction. Even though our contracts are unbreakable and there are no fees.

I have scoured bitcointalk for years. There is no other developer like David Zimbeck that i have located. His communication with the community and his work ethic combined are at least 2x or even greater than  the next best developers of other projects that I have tested.
Also if you ask him any technical questions regarding most things in this entire arena he will know quite a bit about it.

Anyway you will discover this is true if you stick around and investigate things further over time.

Of course keep your eye on many projects to see which will fit your needs the best.

With Byteball I slowly lose my patience. I fear that will be nothing more...

"The best solution", that sounds very good. I like to have a look at it when it runs again.

I always evaluate the various crypto projects from the point of view of my customers, and in this respect Byteball was once very promising:
- a cross-platform, uniform Lightwallet
- no need to load the blockchain
- simple switchable routing via TOR
- a completely anonymous, untraceable currency
- problem-free scaling (at least it should be like this at some point)

That's it, then. Further requirements that would be important from the user's point of view are ignored by the developer. A roadmap that shows where the project is heading does not exist.

I would be very happy if Bitbay would be an exception here. One essential point stands out: The developer is dialogable, and above all he orients himself in an important and decisive direction. - Especially here KYC Byteball can't keep up.

A great statement. Many thanks for that. I could not have expressed it better.
I completely agree with your remarks!

I know Bitmessage, but I wonder in this context how listings with detailed images should be possible. Bitmessage is not really fast.

It's a pity that you don't get an impression of the market and its offers via the bitbay website. Can I get it somewhere else?
I am curious how a shop presents itself as an example, how its listing and individual offers look like.

edit --- david already posted whilst i was writing this reply....

I've read through your post but I do not believe it to be 100% correct. Imho.
I think you are trying to say far more (let's say the threshold the decentralised vote had to reach 85% for ban or delist) than the vast majority will spend time worrying about a bit of drugs or guns being sold. I expect most will not care enough about that at all. Most people these days are kind of okay about other people choosing to take some substances or if they want to own items for self protection. Then again I think there is far greater than 85% consensus for somethings to be voted off.

This of course is still not even taking into account the fact private markets (invisible to all except those you send the link).

Bitbay i think can find a sweet spot on this I believe without using centralised moderation keys.

I think you underestimate the younger generation that will likely use such software to respect peoples rights to self governance in many areas they would not dare to respect face to face, but over a decentralised anon software they will not bother with anything much.

People sadly can not have the right to do anything and still get the benefits to transact at the same level as others that do whom will abide with what the vast vast vast majority REALLY want. Not what they have to say they want but what they REALLY want when answering behind the wall of decentralised anonymity. Actually it is better than that for the fringe people because they only have to abide by what the vast vast vast majority REALLY REALLY do not want to see to a level that will inspire them to take time to vote it off.

That gives them more than enough scope on bitbay along with private markets.

I mean one could argue why should we vote off cheats and scammers and not infringe upon their personal choice to cheat and scam others. If they want to act like that then why should anyone be able to impose our will upon them. The problem is for any cooperative arrangement to work you do need to keep the vast vast majority happy or else they will find ways to cooperate else where.

I just think your argument is over stating the link between what most people REALLY believe is terrible to what they just don't really care about enough to take their time over voting on if it is not directly effecting them.

However, I have read a lot of your posts on the Byteball thread and for sure you make a lot of very good points and seem like a very smart person. So I'm glad to hear your views on bitbay too. I hope David will be back soon to answer your other points and  debate the best ways to develop a decentralised marketplace.

I am not saying you are wrong but I am saying I can not see that your argument follows as you say it will. I could be wrong.

bitbay is the best solution to date that I have found. I think you will too if you look into it.

What are you talking about? If you knew anything about me you would know that's not how any of my products work! I've been preaching freedom from governments and coding until my fingers bleed to make this software. It's the only 2 party escrow software and was the first smart contracts before ETH. The markets have been working for almost 4 years.

First of all you say it's censored but who is this ominous censor you are talking about? The way the moderation system works is users can flag orders if it somehow goes against whats supposed to be posted in a market and it's peer to peer so there is no central decision maker who decides when to pull an offer. There is a moderation key which goes out to volunteers who want to mop up the internet. But you should realize that this task is actually almost impossible. The Bitmessage system works a lot like TOR but has advantages over it namely because it's end to end encrypted so there is no such thing as an exit node... messages simply hop around all the time and that hides the sender. This encryption at receivers end protects you because there is no way for anyone to know if you can access a market or it's orders. Private markets make it almost impossible for people to breach your privacy because they would need the decryption key. Not to mention people can do contracts over email or Bitmessage peer to peer

Now with that said, we do encourage people not to post illegal content. The risk falls on the users. This is no different from purchasing a fire arm or something where it's up to the person to use it to mitigate their own risks. The voluntary moderation key doesn't come with a set of instructions or guidelines. It's to protect us so we can keep coding unhindered. If the market was flooded with darknet stuff then I would never have been able to do my job and code this thing. That doesn't take away from the value of the tools that are supplied here. ESPECIALLY two party escrow AKA unbreakable contracts to which I challenge you to find a more perfect decentralized alternative to enforcement of agreements (you won't).

Let me also point out that these markets can't be censored or shut down. Even if I wanted to shut them down I couldn't.

If you are talking about censorship then buddy you are barking up the wrong tree. I've been the first to denounce governments and the freedoms they stole from everyone. Of course the best world is one without governments at all. Decentralized tech is meant to bridge the divide and when you start to preach that we are censoring you are blinded not realizing who is here fighting for basic human rights. We want to commercialize good business practices and technology and enlighten people to the future of free internet tech. As for governments, it's not just thought crimes they persecute... people can't sell raw milk, they can't plant a tree anywhere they want, they can't go outside naked which is their god given right (being born into the world without clothes to wear). Peoples human rights have been so hijacked modern day culture has become barbaric and unrecognizable to it's true destiny and nature. It's only accepted by the relatively silent black sheep minority because of "might makes right" and the threat of violence through law which keeps them at Bay. Once people are willing to die and fight for their beliefs, that might change. However that's not so easy considering they get everyone indoctrinated in the school system at such a young age.

Decentralization isn't just about decentralizing the internet. To truly have a decentralized internet you somehow need to get rid of the Telcom and use 3d printed devices and manufacturing. It's just a modern way of telling people to not depend on others and to "decentralize" such as community farms and gardens, off grid tech, cheap construction methods such as cob/ceb or recycled materials... etc

So anyways you uninstalled the software. A few things about this. The Linux build has not been updated in a while because I've been out of the country due to a serious injury. I'm starting to feel a little better and will be home shortly and will fix the Linux build. If it said it was 1% after a day then it probably wasn't syncing. Linux used to work fine but one of the builds had a broken package so I have to fix all of that. Regardless we have had many Linux users for the past 4 years. The markets populate on their own and there is usually always about 10 orders or so. However we are testing the dynamic peg lately so I think most users are just waiting for that.

Who wants to draw the line?
Meanwhile I know the claim of millitarian groups who want to push through their moral concepts with all their might.
Whoever makes an exception at CP is also quick at heavy weapons and contract killers. If this limit is crossed, normal armament is no longer acceptable. Drugs, even light ones, are the next victim of censorship. And then, of course, any material that shows even the beginnings of a naked female breast.

If you allow censorship, we will very soon have such conditions that we already know from the Fiat world.
The fact that this has already had to be discussed in your community shows me the tendency in which the guardians of virtue finally gain the upper hand.


Those who cannot bear free goods and services with all the, perhaps abstruse facets, should stay on ebay.

The cryptoworld will anyway be only a niche for a long time, and that's exactly how you should look at a cryptomarket: To get goods and services that are not so easy to find in the regulated Fiat world.

We are at the beginning of a fascist world order with total surveillance of each individual. Nothing is therefore more urgently needed than a truly free market through which the military industrial complex and state terrorism is not financed by taxes.

Well perhaps bay can use openbazaar's model.
However, if a small fringe for example wants to sell CP  then that small fringe should not be allowed to spoil things for the greater majority.
It's a case of getting a balanced and enjoyable user experience without any central point of moderation.
People may not want to  load up the marketplace and have to go through the process of blocking things they didn't wish to be confronted with in the first place. This could slow or damage the adoption more than over zealous moderation even.
This is just my opinion of course.

These moderation keys have been one area that has been discussed before and a few people have said it does not seem the best way to go. I think there could be a decentralised approach to sensible moderation possible for extreme instances.


This aspect is not a deal breaker for most I would suspect in light of the other significant advantages for trustless decentralised trading. I do think though that having moderator keys is something that must be phased out eventually.

yeah it sucks.

David literally left for an extended leave of absence away from home the day after he released the new linux build. This was back in  mid september.
Before we had a chance to test it, he was already gone.
They updated libraries and caused the build to break.

I'm amazed you can even get the Client started.

He's been able to continue coding peg while hes gone. But he can't fix linux till he gets back home.
Hopefully that will be in a just a few days.

Sorry about the wait.

"Undesirable to most people" means that a small fringe group is no longer allowed to meet their needs?
Democracy is the dictatorship of the majority over the minority?
Do we seriously want to continue the state mischief in cryptospace?

In OpenBazaar one has the possibility to block unwanted sellers and their offer. The moral superiority can therefore be given to oneself, but is not imposed on others.

Market client.
Linux Mint
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