Bitcoin FBI Report April 2012 - page 3.

Yankee (BitInstant)

legendary

Activity: 1078

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Charlie 'Van Bitcoin' Shrem

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on May 10, 2012, 07:42:52 AM

Quote from: Matthew N. Wright on May 10, 2012, 05:45:30 AM

http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2012/05/Bitcoin-FBI.pdf

Theirs must have been a different source since it's not an image and can be copied/pasted.

Yeah wonder where they could have found an non-image version? Hmm
(Hint: look up thread)

Wowww and they didn't even give him credit for it?

I hope he put some sort of watermark in it

DeathAndTaxes

donator

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1079

Gerald Davis

Quote from: Matthew N. Wright on May 10, 2012, 05:45:30 AM

http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2012/05/Bitcoin-FBI.pdf

Theirs must have been a different source since it's not an image and can be copied/pasted.

Yeah wonder where they could have found an non-image version? Hmm
(Hint: look up thread)

Yankee (BitInstant)

legendary

Activity: 1078

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Charlie 'Van Bitcoin' Shrem

The FBI is intentionally leaking documents the same way Hip-Hop Artists leak their latest tracks.

ElectricBrain

newbie

Activity: 34

Merit: 0

The seems legit enough for me. I think this means good things for bitcoin. Even if it's publicity from LEO.

El Cabron

vip

Activity: 840

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Matthew N. Wright on May 10, 2012, 05:45:30 AM

http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2012/05/Bitcoin-FBI.pdf

Theirs must have been a different source since it's not an image and can be copied/pasted.

also lulz on how it was reported to be leaked yesterday... wired... also they were more anti bitcoin than the fbi.. the fbi had a decent informative overview.

Raoul Duke

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Activity: 1358

Merit: 1002

Quote from: Matthew N. Wright on May 10, 2012, 05:45:30 AM

http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2012/05/Bitcoin-FBI.pdf

Theirs must have been a different source since it's not an image and can be copied/pasted.

LOL, so it's not a fake anymore? Roll Eyes

Matthew N. Wright

hero member

Activity: 588

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Hero VIP ultra official trusted super staff puppet

http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/threatlevel/2012/05/Bitcoin-FBI.pdf

Theirs must have been a different source since it's not an image and can be copied/pasted.

SgtSpike

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Activity: 1400

Merit: 1005

Quote from: rjk on May 09, 2012, 11:17:53 AM

Quote from: SgtSpike on May 09, 2012, 11:02:01 AM

Quote from: rjk on May 09, 2012, 10:54:36 AM

Quote from: SgtSpike on May 09, 2012, 10:46:15 AM

Quote from: triplehelix on May 09, 2012, 10:43:30 AM

whats the bounty for a good text version? i can make this happen.

It's already happened...

PDF: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0nc35rpevjcu9p4/Bitcoin%20FBI.pdf
DOCX: https://www.dropbox.com/s/p9m3hd7yfq2ee16/Bitcoin%20FBI.docx

Does he mean an ASCII text version suitable for pastebin? That would be a plus.

There you go: http://pastebin.com/D2VVvQ36

Sweet lol

Eh, don't use that. I just realized that it didn't copy any of the text box text over.

Shouldn't be hard to copy/paste those pieces in though, if you want to take the time to do it.

rjk

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

1ngldh

Quote from: SgtSpike on May 09, 2012, 11:02:01 AM

Quote from: rjk on May 09, 2012, 10:54:36 AM

Quote from: SgtSpike on May 09, 2012, 10:46:15 AM

Quote from: triplehelix on May 09, 2012, 10:43:30 AM

whats the bounty for a good text version? i can make this happen.

It's already happened...

PDF: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0nc35rpevjcu9p4/Bitcoin%20FBI.pdf
DOCX: https://www.dropbox.com/s/p9m3hd7yfq2ee16/Bitcoin%20FBI.docx

Does he mean an ASCII text version suitable for pastebin? That would be a plus.

There you go: http://pastebin.com/D2VVvQ36

Sweet lol

triplehelix

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

Quote from: SgtSpike on May 09, 2012, 10:46:15 AM

Quote from: triplehelix on May 09, 2012, 10:43:30 AM

whats the bounty for a good text version? i can make this happen.

It's already happened...

PDF: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0nc35rpevjcu9p4/Bitcoin%20FBI.pdf
DOCX: https://www.dropbox.com/s/p9m3hd7yfq2ee16/Bitcoin%20FBI.docx

cool. i'll just let myself out...

JusticeForYou

vip

Activity: 490

Merit: 271

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on May 09, 2012, 07:54:18 AM

Quote from: Steve on May 08, 2012, 11:12:21 PM

BTC_Bear is right. If done properly, any copies that any intermediaries made would simply be of encrypted gibberish. Only A and Z could spend from the wallet. The B-Y handlers would only have an encrypted form of the wallet…make all the copies you want, they would be useless without the private key that Z possesses and which is needed to decrypt the wallet.

LOLZ. That is the solution?

Um how does "B" make sure the wallet is valid if it is encrypted? Trust the criminal counterpart with $1M in product? So "B" (or any number of intermediaries) hand "Z" a wallet and ... oops turns out it is encrypted garbage. Guess "A" just stole $1M.

Now lets say it is valid. That does nothing to address the fact that "A" could simply steal from "Z" at will any time in the future until the funds are moved.

Now lets pretend A is honest.

What does "Z" do w/ this encrypted wallet when he needs to spend it? Sell it to a new party? Then Mr. "New Party" has to trust not just Z but also A (and maybe A did the same thing so he is trusting people he doesn't even know).

Once again there is a reason why we hash tx into blocks. People are afraid to sell a 1 BTC steam game on a 0-confirm tx but somehow think criminals will trust counterparts they know are criminals with multi-million dollar drug tx and keep them 0-confirm not for 10 minutes but to hours, weeks, or even years? LOLZ. If you can trust your counterparty to never cheat you then you don't need a blockchain to begin with. Without the blockchain to enforce irreversibility it is simply an IOU.

B to Y could verify the amount the whole way with out spending. I'll let you figure out how. It is quite simple actually.

Casacius Coins and Bitbills are out of business then. And they are 'legitimate' businesses without the threat of 'if you screw me over, it's the fishes for you'.

But it is OK, It can't be done. You're right.

psy: Do you know something I don't? Tongue

Please share.

Sometimes the treasure you find is just what was left for you to keep you from digging deeper.

SgtSpike

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1005

Quote from: rjk on May 09, 2012, 10:54:36 AM

Quote from: SgtSpike on May 09, 2012, 10:46:15 AM

Quote from: triplehelix on May 09, 2012, 10:43:30 AM

whats the bounty for a good text version? i can make this happen.

It's already happened...

PDF: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0nc35rpevjcu9p4/Bitcoin%20FBI.pdf
DOCX: https://www.dropbox.com/s/p9m3hd7yfq2ee16/Bitcoin%20FBI.docx

Does he mean an ASCII text version suitable for pastebin? That would be a plus.

There you go: http://pastebin.com/D2VVvQ36

rjk

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

1ngldh

Quote from: SgtSpike on May 09, 2012, 10:46:15 AM

Quote from: triplehelix on May 09, 2012, 10:43:30 AM

whats the bounty for a good text version? i can make this happen.

It's already happened...

PDF: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0nc35rpevjcu9p4/Bitcoin%20FBI.pdf
DOCX: https://www.dropbox.com/s/p9m3hd7yfq2ee16/Bitcoin%20FBI.docx

Does he mean an ASCII text version suitable for pastebin? That would be a plus.

SgtSpike

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1005

Quote from: triplehelix on May 09, 2012, 10:43:30 AM

whats the bounty for a good text version? i can make this happen.

It's already happened...

PDF: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0nc35rpevjcu9p4/Bitcoin%20FBI.pdf
DOCX: https://www.dropbox.com/s/p9m3hd7yfq2ee16/Bitcoin%20FBI.docx

triplehelix

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

whats the bounty for a good text version? i can make this happen.

EhVedadoOAnonimato

hero member

Activity: 630

Merit: 500

@Death&Taxes,

Ok, so sending private keys around is a horrible method. But the point is: you can have BTC transactions which leave no trace in the blockchain. Actually, which leave no trace anywhere. Two examples are the use of physical medium like bitbills or casacius coins, or the use of an Open Transactions server in cash-only mode, with bitcoin-backed tokens.
There's always some level of trust needed, but the transfers are fully anonymous. Much more anonymous than blockchain transfers.
BTC_Bear initial comment that started this parallel discussion of yours remains valid, from this point of view.

Raoul Duke

legendary

Activity: 1358

Merit: 1002

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on May 09, 2012, 07:54:18 AM

Quote from: Steve on May 08, 2012, 11:12:21 PM

BTC_Bear is right. If done properly, any copies that any intermediaries made would simply be of encrypted gibberish. Only A and Z could spend from the wallet. The B-Y handlers would only have an encrypted form of the wallet…make all the copies you want, they would be useless without the private key that Z possesses and which is needed to decrypt the wallet.

LOLZ. That is the solution?

Um how does B make sure the wallet is valid if it is encrypted? Trust the criminal counterpart with $1M in product? So "B" (or any number of intermediaries) hand "Z" a wallet and ... oops turns out it is encrypted garbage. Guess "A" just stole $1M.

Now lets say it is valid. That does nothing to address the fact that "A" could simply steal from "Z" at will any time in the future until the funds are moved.

Now lets pretend A is honest.

What does "Z" do w/ this encrypted wallet when he needs to spend it? Sell it to a new party? Then Mr. "New Party" has to trust not just Z but also A (and maybe A did the same thing so he is trusting people he doesn't even know).

Once again there is a reason why we hash tx into blocks. People are afraid to sell a 1 BTC steam game on a 0-confirm tx but somehow think criminals will trust counterparts they know are criminals with multi-million dollar drug tx and keep them 0-confirm not for 10 minutes but to hours, weeks, or even years? LOLZ. If you can trust your counterparty to never cheat you then you don't need a blockchain to begin with. Without the blockchain to enforce irreversibility it is simply an IOU.

I'm sure criminals would love to do business this way with BTC_Bear and Steve...
We already know who would end up with no money and no product Wink

DeathAndTaxes

donator

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1079

Gerald Davis

Quote from: Steve on May 08, 2012, 11:12:21 PM

BTC_Bear is right. If done properly, any copies that any intermediaries made would simply be of encrypted gibberish. Only A and Z could spend from the wallet. The B-Y handlers would only have an encrypted form of the wallet…make all the copies you want, they would be useless without the private key that Z possesses and which is needed to decrypt the wallet.

LOLZ. That is the solution?

Um how does "B" make sure the wallet is valid if it is encrypted? Trust the criminal counterpart with $1M in product? So "B" (or any number of intermediaries) hand "Z" a wallet and ... oops turns out it is encrypted garbage. Guess "A" just stole $1M.

Now lets say it is valid. That does nothing to address the fact that "A" could simply steal from "Z" at will any time in the future until the funds are moved.

Now lets pretend A is honest.

What does "Z" do w/ this encrypted wallet when he needs to spend it? Sell it to a new party? Then Mr. "New Party" has to trust not just Z but also A (and maybe A did the same thing so he is trusting people he doesn't even know).

Once again there is a reason why we hash tx into blocks. People are afraid to sell a 1 BTC steam game on a 0-confirm tx but somehow think criminals will trust counterparts they know are criminals with multi-million dollar drug tx and keep them 0-confirm not for 10 minutes but to hours, weeks, or even years? LOLZ. If you can trust your counterparty to never cheat you then you don't need a blockchain to begin with. Without the blockchain to enforce irreversibility it is simply an IOU.

EhVedadoOAnonimato

hero member

Activity: 630

Merit: 500

watching

Steve

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 1008

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on May 08, 2012, 12:18:58 PM

Quote from: JusticeForYou on May 08, 2012, 12:15:00 PM

Would want me to explain how that process would work, in public?

You see only A and Z could spend. All the A(...)Z between only passed it along.

Simple it is called a copy.

It would be trivial for any entity B through Y to make a copy. Hell it beomes trivial for Z to steal the funds and then blame it on A. Even "IF" (and that is a big if) everyone is honest it becomes impossible to prove that B through Y only passed it along without making a copy. Even if when Z gets it the funds are still there it is now unprovable if the funds are secure. They could "disappear" in the next second or the next year. When they do nobody can prove who took it.

Also if I am "A" I really don't want to be doing business with an entity so stupid as to essentially leave 7 figures lying around in big piles without any protection or accountability. When it goes missing I don't want them coming to look for me ... especially if I didn't even have anything to do with it.

Also maybe "A" gets jammmed up and is going to be dead if he doesn't come up with some money. Better to steal from Z that risk guaranteed death from this new threat. So Z needs to trust that not only is A honest right NOW but he will continue to be honest forever. If "Z" needs to send funds to someone else that simply extends this chain of trust and unaccountability.

There is a reason we hash tx into blocks.

BTC_Bear is right. If done properly, any copies that any intermediaries made would simply be of encrypted gibberish. Only A and Z could spend from the wallet. The B-Y handlers would only have an encrypted form of the wallet…make all the copies you want, they would be useless without the private key that Z possesses and which is needed to decrypt the wallet.

Topic: Bitcoin FBI Report April 2012 - page 3. (Read 14393 times)