Topic: Bitcoin FBI Report April 2012 - page 4. (Read 14393 times)

Current top link on cryptome.org: http://cryptome.org/2012/05/fbi-bitcoin.pdf

Thanks Charlie...  It struck me as a little odd that the 1st release should appear to be from a bitcoiner - but as I mentioned in earlier posts, I totally agree that the content itself is extremely plausible.

I would also like to point out the three phone numbers listed at the bottom of page 10.  If anyone REALLY wants to confirm legitimacy of the paper, they could simply call those phone numbers, verify the identity of the individuals or departments on the other end of the line, and ask them if they really did publish this paper.

I've met Andrew, and he joined us outside the Future of Money Summit for a Bitcoin chat, super nice guy.

When this paper was leaked by him last night, he emailed it to a number of undisclosed recipients.

He also privately emailed me and said "the fbi report was forwarded to me by a trusted source  "

That, and based on the thorough analyses by SgtSpike and myself I strongly agree this is authentic.

My legal team is making inquiries and going over it as well, will update as I get more info

-Charlie

As I mentioned in the other thread, I just don't see this as being a fake, especially after spending so much time reading through each and every word typing it up.  The endnotes are too carefully constructed and accurate.  The theme of the paper is about criminal uses of Bitcoin, not about Bitcoin being criminal itself.  The wording chosen is consistent with other high-level government writings.

Anyone looking to gain financially from such a move (as julz suggests) would be much better served spending those hundreds of hours elsewhere.  Anyone looking to distribute FUD about bitcoin would likely spend much less time on such a project, or their motives would be called into question.  Why would you be so adamantly against Bitcoin as to spend hundreds of hours crafting a fake FBI document?  Especially a document that focuses solely on the potential criminal uses of Bitcoin, and not Bitcoin itself?

I just don't see it.  Certainly, people are welcome to have their own opinions, and I certainly have no proof that this is a legitimate FBI document.  I am just throwing my opinion out there, and in my opinion, this is definitely not a fake.

I think Matthews 'troll' shrieks with dubious reasoning were a bit of a red herring.. however, he may be onto something as far as who the uploader is.
Matthew may be right for mostly the wrong reasons.

I didn't notice at first that it was 'tradebitcoin' who uploaded it (though it's in plain view).  Clearly the OP Andrew Bitcoiner knows something about the source.

If this is fake, it makes far more sense as an attempt to gain hits/eyeballs to a commercial operation (Andrew Bitcoiner's tradebitcoin.us or bitcoinadvertisers.com) than as a mere 'troll'.
This is another case of the word 'troll' being bandied about in a timewasting fashion.

Andrew Bitcoiner - please either come clean about this as a fake, or make some statement about how it is you came to upload it to scribd.


...and (if applicable) by coming clean sooner rather than later - avoid my requests to forum mods to have you labelled as a scammer.

Ok, Ok, It can't be done. It's not possible. You're right.

Simple it is called a copy. 

It would be trivial for any entity B through Y to make a copy.  Hell it beomes trivial for Z to steal the funds and then blame it on A.  Even "IF" (and that is a big if) everyone is honest it becomes impossible to prove that B through Y only passed it along without making a copy.  Even if when Z gets it the funds are still there it is now unprovable if the funds are secure.  They could "disappear" in the next second or the next year.  When they do nobody can prove who took it.  

Also if I am "A" I really don't want to be doing business with an entity so stupid as to essentially leave 7 figures lying around in big piles without any protection or accountability.  When it goes missing I don't want them coming to look for me ... especially if I didn't even have anything to do with it.

Also maybe "A" gets jammmed up and is going to be dead if he doesn't come up with some money.  Better to steal from Z that risk guaranteed death from this new threat.  So Z needs to trust that not only is A honest right NOW but he will continue to be honest forever.  If "Z" needs to send funds to someone else that simply extends this chain of trust and unaccountability.

There is a reason we hash tx into blocks.

Would want me to explain how that process would work, in public?

You see only A and Z could spend. All the A(...)Z between only passed it along.

but meh...


Sorry went off Topic here. Back to Topic.

Orly? Ok, nvm then.

Sure.  You understand stand that at any point in the future anyone who had access to the wallet.dat could spend it and that spend would be untraceable.

So I buy $1M in drugs from you and give you a $1M wallet.dat.  You don't spend/transfer it to a secure address.  You pass that wallet.dat up to your boss, up to his boss up to his boss.

Suddenly one day the wallet is empty.  Who stole it?  You, me, your boss, your boss to frame me, your boss to frame you, you to frame your boss and take his job?

Trust, money and criminality don't get along very well...

Just saying...

I would tend to believe that the people that would do that in a serious Organized Crime way, would be trusted or dead.

Just saying...

That is non-viable method beyond immediate and well trusted peers and only for tiny amounts of money.

Witnessed!


That's unlikely... I very much doubt that if it was the OPs work, as you suggest, he would've put the
in there. Also the fact that the link shows in blue suggests that it was original linked text on the pdf

I personally don't think it is real, but it might be. I'll tell you why?

The very first page graphic, but that might have been added later by OP.

The information contained in the report would only be an awareness of Bitcoin to cc: parties and not provide any really useful information that anyone that uses a computer doesn't know. But then again, they are usually behind the 8-Ball.

And if real, they have missed swathing sections on how really hard it is to track. They also point out a bottle neck when converting to fiat currencies which is true if using an exchange but if not it would be really hard to tell even IF a conversion to fiat currency took place.

They didn't even mention that beyond a network P2P, that there could be exchange of Wallet.dat files that the network wouldn't even see.

But in the end, this is a 40 Million Dollar economy. Yes it is large but no where near what the 'BigBoys' would move.

Of course, the 'BigBoys' don't worry about the FBI because they have the power to sway government agencies or at least control senior executives in them. We're talking Billions not 40 Million. I've seen how big companies work and how the 'government' ignores it. I am for capitalism but for FAIR capitalism.

BTW: Any time the FBI using the term Money Laundering they should be saying: "We are to stupid to catch the people doing the crimes, so we will try to follow the money AFTER they have committed the crimes."  Basically they are Lazy and a foot on the ground is more expensive than a computer in a bank.


End Of Rant.

It will be available in 5-6 months but only if 1000 people pre-order it now.  It's gonna be awesome.  20,000 pages, full color, so glossy it will fall right out of your hands, and in 1080P 3D.  Contact Matt is you want to purchase some ad space.

I'll retype it.... how much would the bounty be for?

+1 We need to be linking to a readable .pdf that does not require to "log in with Facebook". To qoute the report I would say with "High Confidence" that this report is a genuine leak not a fake.

Where's your "another FBI report"? I'd like to take a look.