Bitcoin has reached the tipping point - page 2.

jonoiv

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Quote from: devphp on September 02, 2014, 08:00:56 AM

But it's not the tipping point after which it grows exponentially, no. It's the tipping point where people start fleeing it en masse to other technologies and undervalued cryptos. After all, why would you buy Bitcoin if you can buy something cheaper, which does the same, or even better - if you can buy something cheaper which does the same and then a few other things. Bitcoin was the bootstrapping crypto, now is the time for other technologies to take its place. It won't happen overnight, but the process has begun.

why would you buy dollars when you can buy Zimbabwe dollars cheaper?

does the same thing right?

raskul

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Quote from: devphp on November 24, 2014, 08:57:27 AM

No, oil doesn't qualify, although it can be said it is more stable than Bitcoin, but you wouldn't want to sustain value with oil, unless you can buy and keep yourself a personal tanker )

sorry, you are wrong.
you can buy and sell oil in the exact same way that you can buy and sell bitcoin.

I am sure there are people who bought in oil at $110 per barrel. today it is ~$85 per barrel.
so, in your hypothesis :

Quote

It either sustains value for everyone, or it doesn't and can be grouped into the same 'scam' category.

the same applies to oil.
I am pointing out that you continually contradict yourself, and am not correlating the price of oil with the price of bitcoin (before you begin that argument).

If you bought into bitcoin at $1000, then that was your free minded choice to do so.
If you sold out lower than you bought, then that also, was your free minded choice to do so.

just, don't expect people to believe that it was Bitcoins fault that you lost money, it wasn't.

anyway, it's been fun debating this with you. i have things to do. so i'll bid you good luck on your endeavours, whatever they may be.

devphp

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No, oil doesn't qualify, although it can be said it is more stable than Bitcoin, but you wouldn't want to sustain value with oil, unless you can buy and keep yourself a personal tanker )

raskul

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Quote from: devphp on November 24, 2014, 08:43:47 AM

I never claimed there is any commodity that can hold value for everyone who bought it.

Quote from: devphp on November 24, 2014, 08:30:50 AM

It either sustains value for everyone, or it doesn't and can be grouped into the same 'scam' category.

like.. Brent Crude Oil?

devphp

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Quote from: raskul on November 24, 2014, 08:35:57 AM

please give an example of any commodity which has 'held value for everyone who bought it' - your remark is ludicrous and shows your immaturity where trading is concerned. I wouldn't trust you with £1.

I never claimed there is any commodity that can hold value for everyone who bought it. It was you who claimed that Bitcoin has sustained value, I just showed you that it didn't, not for everyone, that's why many people have proof that it doesn't sustain value. While you may have proof that it does sustain value, it's only your subjective experience, and it is no proof at all to those bag holders who have experienced the opposite.

Quote from: raskul on November 24, 2014, 08:35:57 AM

personal attacks based on the fact I have a differing opinion, shows your immaturity. I am merely giving constructive comment towards your thread.
You don't have to like my ideas, but please, refrain from personal abuse in your arguments.

You haven't given any constructive comment yet. All you said is there is Bitcoin which sustains value (which it doesn't as I said above) and the rest are scam coins. What's constructive about this? You haven't presented any proof of your statement, just your personal experience, which has nothing to do with objective (as in everyone's combined personal experiences, not just your own) reality.

raskul

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Quote from: devphp on November 24, 2014, 08:30:50 AM

Your play on words

'your' misquoting my words, actually

Quote from: devphp on November 24, 2014, 08:30:50 AM

is no consolation to bag holders who bought near the peak, and for them Bitcoin hasn't sustained value at all.

i'm not on this earth to console anyone, neither am i interested in what prices anyone buys BTC at.

Quote from: devphp on November 24, 2014, 08:30:50 AM

It either sustains value for everyone, or it doesn't and can be grouped into the same 'scam' category.

please give an example of any commodity which has 'held value for everyone who bought it' - your remark is ludicrous and shows your immaturity where trading is concerned. I wouldn't trust you with £1.

Quote from: devphp on November 24, 2014, 08:30:50 AM

However, grouping it into the same 'scam' category would reveal absence of knowledge whatsoever on the subject of money, just like your grouping of all Bitcoin alternatives into the same 'scam' category based on the fact that Bitcoin has achieved the current $370 price and others haven't yet, totally ignoring utility value of the alternatives, reveals this absence of knowledge, blind religious faith, vested miner interests, or some combination of all three.

personal attacks based on the fact I have a differing opinion, shows your immaturity. I am merely giving constructive comment towards your thread.
You don't have to like my ideas, but please, refrain from personal abuse in your arguments.

devphp

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Your play on words is no consolation to bag holders who bought near the peak, and for them Bitcoin hasn't sustained value at all.

It either sustains value for everyone, or it doesn't and can be grouped into the same 'scam' category.

However, grouping it into the same 'scam' category would reveal absence of knowledge whatsoever on the subject of money, just like your grouping of all Bitcoin alternatives into the same 'scam' category based on the fact that Bitcoin has achieved the current $370 price and others haven't yet, totally ignoring utility value of the alternatives, reveals this absence of knowledge, blind religious faith, vested miner interests, or some combination of all three.

raskul

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Quote from: devphp on November 24, 2014, 08:17:46 AM

Quote from: raskul on November 24, 2014, 08:15:24 AM

1 digital (with no physical entity) bitcoin is currently worth ~$370.
quite an astonishing accomplishment is you ask me.

you were clearly expecting more?

You stressed that it sustains value, but no it doesn't. We're not talking about short term accomplishments. 'Sustain value' has a long term connotation, what you said about sustained value is simply not true.

No, then I might have said 'sustains long term value'

However, neither did i say, 'sustains short term value'

i said: 'already has sustained value'

see the median (where the two white lines cross) - what I am saying is that's pretty good for the price of something which has no physical entity, and that bitcoin has sustained 'a' value since it's inception. I hope this clears up the meaning of 'sustains value'

ADD; median = 11th January 2015 @ $342 per 1BTC

devphp

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Quote from: raskul on November 24, 2014, 08:15:24 AM

1 digital (with no physical entity) bitcoin is currently worth ~$370.
quite an astonishing accomplishment is you ask me.

you were clearly expecting more?

You stressed that it sustains value, but no it doesn't. We're not talking about short term accomplishments. 'Sustain value' has a long term connotation, what you said about sustained value is simply not true.

raskul

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Quote from: devphp on November 24, 2014, 08:13:48 AM

Quote from: raskul on November 24, 2014, 08:09:18 AM

So... why on earth would you advise anyone to invest in anything which is simply a rip-off (or an advanced ripoff) of something that already has sustained value?

I won't comment on how you put all the alternatives into the same 'scam' category, but the bolded statement is surprising. Have you checked the charts recently? What has sustained value, Bitcoin? Seriously? Sure it did for you if you purchased or mined it back a few years ago, bot so much for all the recent bag holders.

1 digital (with no physical entity) bitcoin is currently worth ~$370.
quite an astonishing accomplishment is you ask me.

you were clearly expecting more?

devphp

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Quote from: raskul on November 24, 2014, 08:09:18 AM

So... why on earth would you advise anyone to invest in anything which is simply a rip-off (or an advanced ripoff) of something that already has sustained value?

I won't comment on how you put all the alternatives into the same 'scam' category, but the bolded statement is surprising. Have you checked the charts recently? What has sustained value, Bitcoin? Seriously? Sure it did for you if you purchased or mined it back a few years ago, not so much for all the recent bag holders.

raskul

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Quote from: devphp on November 24, 2014, 07:48:03 AM

Quote from: raskul on November 24, 2014, 05:34:57 AM

there have been many smoke and mirror attempts by longstanding members of these forums and long-term bitcoiners to dilute the bitcoin network, push people away towards 'other' cryptocurrencies, and in my view, this thread is just another attempt at that.

isn't it desirable to hardcore miners to have the network reduce in hashrate by duping miners into believing 'thiscoin' and 'thatcoin' are going to be worth more than bitcoin in the future? thus leading the blind miner towards mining something else, which in the end has no intrinsic value whatsoever?

So, you think I am a hardcore Bitcoin miner trying to lead other miners with my thread to other coins to reduce hashrate of Bitcoin network so I could mine more Bitcoins for myself? Well, you certainly are free to make that conclusion. But it just goes to prove that die-hard Bitcoiners often think that everyone else has the same blind faith in Bitcoin that they do, brushing away all the reasoning and logic given in this thread, obsessed with the idea that Bitcoin is salvation, such religion Cheesy

in cyrpto-world we have:

shitcoin, scamcoin, porncoin, countrycoin, cloudcoin and Bitcoin.

So... why on earth would you advise anyone to invest in anything which is simply a rip-off (or an advanced ripoff) of something that already has sustained value?
me? i mine because i get free electric, there is no religion in that, just a simple extra bit of cash every month. The more hash-rate that gets dumped on the network, the less pocket money I get from mining every month. You are awfully keen to jump to conclusions regarding my personal faith.

here is the current balance of my wallet: 1N5u4nxxitJZoZ86g7M2zU6hvXVkDHruqk

you see me worshipping anything? i'm quite transparent. not selling anything, not diverting anyones ideals and not trying to promote a shitcoin.
yes, your OP seems like smoke and mirrors to divert miners away from bitcoin.

just saying.

devphp

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Quote from: raskul on November 24, 2014, 05:34:57 AM

there have been many smoke and mirror attempts by longstanding members of these forums and long-term bitcoiners to dilute the bitcoin network, push people away towards 'other' cryptocurrencies, and in my view, this thread is just another attempt at that.

isn't it desirable to hardcore miners to have the network reduce in hashrate by duping miners into believing 'thiscoin' and 'thatcoin' are going to be worth more than bitcoin in the future? thus leading the blind miner towards mining something else, which in the end has no intrinsic value whatsoever?

So, you think I am a hardcore Bitcoin miner trying to lead other miners with my thread to other coins to reduce hashrate of Bitcoin network so I could mine more Bitcoins for myself? Well, you certainly are free to make that conclusion. But it just goes to prove that die-hard Bitcoiners often think that everyone else has the same blind faith in Bitcoin that they do, brushing away all the reasoning and logic given in this thread, obsessed with the idea that Bitcoin is salvation, such religion Cheesy

raskul

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there have been many smoke and mirror attempts by longstanding members of these forums and long-term bitcoiners to dilute the bitcoin network, push people away towards 'other' cryptocurrencies, and in my view, this thread is just another attempt at that.

isn't it desirable to hardcore miners to have the network reduce in hashrate by duping miners into believing 'thiscoin' and 'thatcoin' are going to be worth more than bitcoin in the future? thus leading the blind miner towards mining something else, which in the end has no intrinsic value whatsoever?

I do however, believe that BTC did reach its ATH (that is ALL TIME high in the truest sense of its meaning) in winter 2013. it will not go beyond the mark of $1200 ever again, but it may reach near to it once or twice in the future.

personally, i'm content with that. too many folk dwell on their own greed, thinking that $350 $400 $500 is a low mark for BTC.

it should be realised, $400 is in no way a low mark.

BTC-e $369.783 at time of writing this post - a good price for any cryptocurrency.

e-coinomist

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Money often costs too much.

Quote from: Wekkel on November 24, 2014, 04:56:15 AM

Bitcoin price does not hamper its function. Bitcoin is doing just fine.

Except that people cannot mine it no more at home. Which is probably the reason why we are dabbling in Altcoins here.

Price merely follows that effect. Other impacts on the price decline might be caused by that notorious shortage of Silkroads out there, getting busted on a fixed shedule now. So any predictions of 1000 dollars at Xmas are outdated, obviously.

devphp

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Quote from: Wekkel on November 24, 2014, 04:56:15 AM

Bitcoin price does not hamper its function. Bitcoin is doing just fine.

That's not the point I make. The point is that Bitcoin's function is to fuel growth of more advanced crypto technologies and that's what has been going on. Bitcoin funds R&D of crypto 2.0 and its price is a reflection of that trend.

Wekkel

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yes

Quote from: devphp on November 24, 2014, 03:49:01 AM

Do you guys feel that with each failed rally AKA dead-cat bounce confidence in Bitcoin is waning and investors more and more probe into what's behind those alternatives? That's certainly the impression I've had recently. Yeah, there are a few die-hard bitcoiners here, who are in denial, but they don't seem to have enough dough to reverse the trend.

Bitcoin price does not hamper its function. Bitcoin is doing just fine.

devphp

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Do you guys feel that with each failed rally AKA dead-cat bounce confidence in Bitcoin is waning and investors more and more probe into what's behind those alternatives? That's certainly the impression I've had recently. Yeah, there are a few die-hard bitcoiners here, who are in denial, but they don't seem to have enough dough to reverse the trend.

devphp

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Quote from: Wekkel on November 15, 2014, 06:41:47 AM

Quote from: devphp on November 15, 2014, 06:32:56 AM

What is your plan if this bear market is to continue another 12 months?

I am HODLING

Such determination )

devphp

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Quote from: djm34 on November 15, 2014, 09:51:03 AM

closed loop never works...

I sure didn't mean a 100% closed loop, there would always be fiat gateways back and forth. But when 95-100% of bitcoins paid to merchants are immediately exchanged back to fiat, that's bad, mkay )

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