I have in the last census my religion as Jedi. Happy to convert to Bitcoin religion now. Agree to be a high priest.
http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/5548/bitcoinseance.jpg
By tommylarusso at 2011-09-06
Topic: Bitcoin in France: first legal decision directly related to Bitcoin? - page 9. (Read 63018 times)
September 06, 2011, 09:43:33 AM
http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/5548/bitcoinseance.jpg
By tommylarusso at 2011-09-06
September 06, 2011, 05:40:44 AM
Those still need to be licensed (and are legally treated as a bank in most countries).
Licensed - yes, but "legally treated as a bank" - bullshit.
A licence for a currency exchange office is MUCH MUCH simpler than a bank licence. Lots of those currency exchange places are really small, running as a sole proprietor tiny business by one or two people. The "licencing" is pretty much just registering, and if you meet basic requirements (like not being a convicted criminal for financial crimes, and finishing some course of handling money), you just get it.
Starting a bank is about a million times more larger complication then stating a currency exchange business. Currency exchange company is nowhere near being "legally treated as a bank", as they can not borrow to someone else money which was deposited to them - that is what distinguishes a bank from not-a-bank - being able to lend money which people deposited with your. There are literally thousands, if not millions of small businesses in Europe legally doing all kinds of money-handling business, from currency exchange to money transfer, heck even a credit card processing company is not a bank, and they are lots of these popping-up.
September 06, 2011, 05:04:07 AM
The idea of a Bitcoin religion is quite good. Seriously.
In Brazil, for example, there are some people who worship an hallucinogenic plant (Ayahuasca). It's the only hard drug allowed in the country, as far as I know, precisely due to its religion background. And, according to wikipedia, even the US Supreme Court ruled that, due to the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, this religion cannot be forbidden to take its hallucinogenic during their rituals.
In Brazil, for example, there are some people who worship an hallucinogenic plant (Ayahuasca). It's the only hard drug allowed in the country, as far as I know, precisely due to its religion background. And, according to wikipedia, even the US Supreme Court ruled that, due to the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, this religion cannot be forbidden to take its hallucinogenic during their rituals.
September 06, 2011, 04:03:17 AM
...and for those worrying about laws making the rate go down, ask yourself; what happened to the price of liquor during prohibition in USA?
If bitcoins were the only way to make payments, then that comparison would have at least a tiny bit of sense...
September 06, 2011, 03:52:01 AM
...and for those worrying about laws making the rate go down, ask yourself; what happened to the price of liquor during prohibition in USA?
If bitcoins were the only way to make payments, then that comparison would have at least a tiny bit of sense...
September 06, 2011, 03:06:36 AM
I think when people realize the value Bitcoin is *NOT* what some silly bank in France decide or their legal system dictates, or what what the mainstream media makes of it, then the exchange rate will follow upwards. The more laws Bitcoin break, the better it will be in that aspect.
The true value of Bitcoin comes (or will come eventually) from the rigid system itself, the simple fact it is free from regulations, and not affected by any laws in any country even if it were to be declared illegal.
This means Bitcoin will outlive any country laws, any exchanges, any shit you throw at it, because that is the core purpose of it.
...and for those worrying about laws making the rate go down, ask yourself; what happened to the price of liquor during prohibition in USA?
The true value of Bitcoin comes (or will come eventually) from the rigid system itself, the simple fact it is free from regulations, and not affected by any laws in any country even if it were to be declared illegal.
This means Bitcoin will outlive any country laws, any exchanges, any shit you throw at it, because that is the core purpose of it.
...and for those worrying about laws making the rate go down, ask yourself; what happened to the price of liquor during prohibition in USA?
September 06, 2011, 02:44:34 AM
Were BitCoin a religion that would make the Bitcoin Block Explorer a holy book?!
More like an empty book, the way the price is going atm.
September 06, 2011, 02:43:21 AM
You don't own bitcoins. You own keys that allows you to give authorization to other people's key to use some coins. The coins really are in the blockchain, which is everywhere.
[/quote]
There are no bitcoins. All we have is this public ledger.
[/quote]
Were BitCoin a religion that would make the Bitcoin Block Explorer a holy book?!
September 06, 2011, 02:03:01 AM
I have in the last census my religion as Jedi. Happy to convert to Bitcoin religion now. Agree to be a high priest.
September 06, 2011, 01:33:56 AM
Half joking... let's just call Bitcoin a religion! Then, not only will it not be a money and subservient to the arbitrary rules of monies, but it will in fact be tax deductible!
Maybe it's the vodka talking =)
Maybe it's the vodka talking =)
You are a genius
Guys, if we manage to create a religion that has bitcoin as a sacred thing, then every problem is solved.
And creating religions is possible, even sci-fi authors created some of great success!
Just talked to my god, the fsm. It says: "Hell, yea!"
September 06, 2011, 01:07:19 AM
Speaking about wow gold and other mmo things, it's stated that ALL the mmo things are property of the software house. So every wow gold is property of Blizzard, no matter what. Of course if you are playing wow you can use them, but you can't go around and say "i OWN 100 wow gold"
As for bitcoin well we need them to treat it like gold
As for bitcoin well we need them to treat it like gold
You don't own bitcoins. You own keys that allows you to give authorization to other people's key to use some coins. The coins really are in the blockchain, which is everywhere.
There are no bitcoins. All we have is this public ledger.
September 05, 2011, 05:52:50 PM
I am not sure if I have missed it, so here the question:
Do you expect a ruling on Sep 13 or will this only be the start of the lawsuit?
Do you expect a ruling on Sep 13 or will this only be the start of the lawsuit?
It's only the start date, where both parties will provide elements under their possession to argument. Chances are it'll take a few weeks before a definitive answer is found.
September 05, 2011, 05:43:31 PM
this looks to me like they're passively criminalizing Bitcoins:
"We don't understand it and we don't control it and the government doesn't back it, so we'd rather not do business with you."
My guess is that lawmakers around the world are going to come up with a shitload of contradicting and outrageously ignorant laws regarding Bitcoin which will give Bitcoin users and businesses an increasing pain in the ass until they decide to simply ignore other people's law and government and establish their own.
I know this is way off, but:
initially the idea of bitcoin was to abandon the need for banks alltogether, now it seems like bitcoin businesses rely on the banks' and legislation's goodwill in order to carry out their business.
it's ironic. but if institutions like that really bannished bitcoins it might draw the whole thing closer to what satoshi had initially intended.
"We don't understand it and we don't control it and the government doesn't back it, so we'd rather not do business with you."
My guess is that lawmakers around the world are going to come up with a shitload of contradicting and outrageously ignorant laws regarding Bitcoin which will give Bitcoin users and businesses an increasing pain in the ass until they decide to simply ignore other people's law and government and establish their own.
I know this is way off, but:
initially the idea of bitcoin was to abandon the need for banks alltogether, now it seems like bitcoin businesses rely on the banks' and legislation's goodwill in order to carry out their business.
it's ironic. but if institutions like that really bannished bitcoins it might draw the whole thing closer to what satoshi had initially intended.
September 05, 2011, 03:52:13 PM
Actually, no. And that is the beauty of it.
The actual balance is stored by the whole network, not on your physical computer. So by "sending" bitcoins, you don't really change their physical localization. It's just matter of complex mathematical computations.
By sending Bitcoins, you give somebody else the rights of ownership to the bitcoins, but they don't move themselves.
The actual balance is stored by the whole network, not on your physical computer. So by "sending" bitcoins, you don't really change their physical localization. It's just matter of complex mathematical computations.
By sending Bitcoins, you give somebody else the rights of ownership to the bitcoins, but they don't move themselves.
This all depends on the final legal status. Law is known to not care much about technical sense.
I am not sure if I have missed it, so here the question:
Do you expect a ruling on Sep 13 or will this only be the start of the lawsuit?
September 05, 2011, 02:52:28 PM
Aren't Bitcoin really just notations in a ledger? Btc don't exist?
Users are simply paying to log a number of transactions in a secure, robust and pseudo-anonymous way.
Users are simply paying to log a number of transactions in a secure, robust and pseudo-anonymous way.
Yes but that is only one function. The ledger known as the blockchain is constantly audited by third-parties via block confirmations. Verification of the ledger pays in Bitcoins. An amount of Bitcoin is required to access to network and adjust the ledge/blockchain.
September 05, 2011, 10:32:03 AM
Fascinating!
I'd speculate that that bitcoin will be declared as a "virtual currency" by the court.
I'd speculate that that bitcoin will be declared as a "virtual currency" by the court.
I don't think you're the gambling type, but, well: place your bet: http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=89 ("French court will rule Bitcoin as a virtual currency", 0.1 BTC agree, 25.80 BTC disagree. Pretty good odds should they decide it's a currency.
September 05, 2011, 10:24:09 AM
Aren't Bitcoin really just notations in a ledger? Btc don't exist?
Users are simply paying to log a number of transactions in a secure, robust and pseudo-anonymous way.
Users are simply paying to log a number of transactions in a secure, robust and pseudo-anonymous way.
September 05, 2011, 09:27:38 AM
Bitcoin is not a money, it's bitcoin. Don't try to interpret it with current laws, we'll most likely need a new set of laws to accommodate the way it works and the anonymity required.
I wish this were to happen. Bitcoin is going to be pegged and labeled in the easiest way for them to understand, which is 'funny money' .. but still money. I have a hard time envisioning a precise legal definition of crypto-currencies that would not interfere with some other basic rights or technologies (like cryptography or distributed databases). The thing is, that many of Bitcoin's technicalities could easily be changed if there was a great incentive to do so (how coins are issued, where the blockchain is stored, how transactions are processed, etc.).
It will probably be a looong time before jurisdictions really catch up with technologies like Bitcoin...
September 05, 2011, 08:59:39 AM
So if I send my bitcoins from MtGox to my own wallet.dat (I live in europe) I would have to pay import tax?
Actually, no. And that is the beauty of it.
The actual balance is stored by the whole network, not on your physical computer. So by "sending" bitcoins, you don't really change their physical localization. It's just matter of complex mathematical computations.
By sending Bitcoins, you give somebody else the rights of ownership to the bitcoins, but they don't move themselves.
Unless the judge decides that the value is not attached to the code in the blockchain, but to the key that provides the right of ownership.
Well yeah... I guess everybody makes mistakes.
September 05, 2011, 08:49:43 AM
(registering to this thread)
Wanna show up for the ruling ?I don't know... Is it possible to bring popcorn in the court?
Seriously, yeah I seriously consider showing up. I've never attended this kind of stuff, though. Any advice appreciated.
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