Bitcoin is doomed. Thanks IRS!!! You Ass hats! - page 11.

s_s

newbie

Activity: 43

Merit: 0

Quote from: nitehawk on March 27, 2014, 11:40:38 AM

see this is the way i see it if its property subject to capital gains... then its subject to capital loss as well isnt it ?

bought at 1200 sold at 500 .. thats a capital loss and should be able to be written off.. up to 3k

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc409.html

Yes that is correct.

Robert Paulson

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Quote from: amspir on March 27, 2014, 11:44:56 AM

Quote from: Robert Paulson on March 27, 2014, 11:33:42 AM

o but wait... i can't... i first need to check what the freakin exchange rate was when i got my bitcoins compare it to today's and then write down to report my capital gains to the IRS...

Writing it down because your bitcoin wallet is broken? Keeping a record because it's impossible to consult the blockchain later?

If you're smart enough to transact bitcoins, I really don't get how you could be too stupid to run your wallet through a TurboTax-Bitcoin app at tax time.

or i can pay with fiat and not have to consult with anything.

amspir

member

Activity: 112

Merit: 10

Quote from: Robert Paulson on March 27, 2014, 11:33:42 AM

o but wait... i can't... i first need to check what the freakin exchange rate was when i got my bitcoins compare it to today's and then write down to report my capital gains to the IRS...

Writing it down because your bitcoin wallet is broken? Keeping a record because it's impossible to consult the blockchain later?

If you're smart enough to transact bitcoins, I really don't get how you could be too stupid to run your wallet through a TurboTax-Bitcoin app at tax time.

nitehawk

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Worldcore - Banking for the Future

see this is the way i see it if its property subject to capital gains... then its subject to capital loss as well isnt it ?

bought at 1200 sold at 500 .. thats a capital loss and should be able to be written off.. up to 3k

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc409.html

Hqen2000

newbie

Activity: 35

Merit: 0

Quote from: Robert Paulson on March 27, 2014, 11:33:42 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Robert Paulson on March 27, 2014, 11:08:08 AM

taxing bitcoin investments is justified.
forcing someone who buys a cup of coffee with bitcoin to check if the coins he used were obtained when the exchange rate was lower than today and then reporting it to the IRS IS NOT justified.
this will move people away from using bitcoin as money.

Unless you buy $600 worth of coffee from the same entity, your example probably doesn't apply. But keep repeating it, by all means.

Consult a tax professional.

what if i want to buy a cellphone with bitcoins.
o but wait... i can't... i first need to check what the freakin exchange rate was when i got my bitcoins compare it to today's and then write down to report my capital gains to the IRS...
guess ill just use my credit card then...

Wow. Way to make such a simple task sound complex!

/start report/

500 - 629.99 = 129.99

/end report/

This will not even be a factor for normal purchases. Now if you are a distributor and are buying 32,000 phones, then the math is important. But wait, you are a business parson, you shouldn't be afraid of taxes and math if that's the case. So complexity of doing this really isn't a factor.

Robert Paulson

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Robert Paulson on March 27, 2014, 11:08:08 AM

taxing bitcoin investments is justified.
forcing someone who buys a cup of coffee with bitcoin to check if the coins he used were obtained when the exchange rate was lower than today and then reporting it to the IRS IS NOT justified.
this will move people away from using bitcoin as money.

Unless you buy $600 worth of coffee from the same entity, your example probably doesn't apply. But keep repeating it, by all means.

Consult a tax professional.

what if i want to buy a cellphone with bitcoins.
o but wait... i can't... i first need to check what the freakin exchange rate was when i got my bitcoins compare it to today's and then write down to report my capital gains to the IRS...
guess ill just use my credit card then...

Mike Christ

legendary

Activity: 1078

Merit: 1003

Quote from: 2tights on March 27, 2014, 11:28:13 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: 2tights on March 27, 2014, 11:14:37 AM

I am against paying unrealistic taxes.

I am personally opposed to all kinds of theft, but if you are the sort who doesn't mind it as long as it comes from your government, paying capital gains on an asset that goes from $60 to $500 in a few months isn't unrealistic. If there is stability or the asset loses value, you don't owe anything.

I don't believe its quite so simple as blatant theft. At least some of the tax money maintains roads and schools. That's why I don't mind paying "SOME" taxes, but I certainly agree that we pay WAY too much tax, and the government has gotten WAY too large and they are WAY too inefficient.

If you truly didn't mind it, you wouldn't need to be taxed Tongue

2tights

sr. member

Activity: 308

Merit: 251

I like big BITS and I cannot lie.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: 2tights on March 27, 2014, 11:14:37 AM

I am against paying unrealistic taxes.

I am personally opposed to all kinds of theft, but if you are the sort who doesn't mind it as long as it comes from your government, paying capital gains on an asset that goes from $60 to $500 in a few months isn't unrealistic. If there is stability or the asset loses value, you don't owe anything.

I don't believe its quite so simple as blatant theft. At least some of the tax money maintains roads and schools. That's why I don't mind paying "SOME" taxes, but I certainly agree that we pay WAY too much tax, and the government has gotten WAY too large and they are WAY too inefficient.

Mike Christ

legendary

Activity: 1078

Merit: 1003

Feels like bitcoin is doomed every other week.

pandher

legendary

Activity: 952

Merit: 1000

Stagnation is Death

Quote from: Beliathon on March 27, 2014, 11:18:28 AM

Source of problem: You are interested in Bitcoin's daily fiat exchange rate instead of interested in Bitcoin's incredible utility as a superior technology, a better "way of doing money".

Ignore the exchange rate. Speculators don't matter. Judge it objectively, as a scientist would, and you will see cryptocurrency is the future, and fiat is the past.

There's no way around it.

And that is not happening unless hoarders liquidate their holdings. Till then bitcoin will only be an expensive speculative collectors item

Gentso1

full member

Activity: 156

Merit: 100

Dark wallet anyone?

Beliathon

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 1000

https://youtu.be/PZm8TTLR2NU

This is basically so they can get a slice of the pie from the Bitcoin millionaires. So rich folks can't dodge taxes by throwing all their money into Bitcoin.

Long term, it makes very little difference for this technology.

RodeoX

legendary

Activity: 3066

Merit: 1147

The revolution will be monetized!

Quote from: seriouscoin on March 27, 2014, 10:08:59 AM

Quote from: RodeoX on March 27, 2014, 09:47:41 AM

Quote from: hello_good_sir on March 27, 2014, 09:40:30 AM

Having bitcoin classified as property rather than currency is the best possible scenario. The capital gains tax rate is 0% for most people. 0%... hard to beat that.

That is my rate this year. I was a little surprised and a lot happy. I pay dearly for the money I earn from working, but nothing this year for bitcoin. Thanks IRS, my 0% tax rate makes me 100% satisfied.

Can you elaborate on this? How is it 0%?

Just as you would expect, it is an overly complicated calculation based on your income and tax rate. But just filling out the forms and following the rules that was the result. It would have come out differently depending on how much I spent. In the future I may hire a tax pro to help me discover how much I can spend each year and keep my tax burden bottomed out.

Beliathon

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 1000

https://youtu.be/PZm8TTLR2NU

Quote from: pandher on March 27, 2014, 09:46:59 AM

Bitcoin is tanking and that is totally understandable.

Source of problem: You are interested in Bitcoin's daily fiat exchange rate instead of interested in Bitcoin's incredible utility as a superior technology, a better "way of doing money".

Ignore the exchange rate. Speculators don't matter. Judge it objectively, as a scientist would, and you will see cryptocurrency is the future, and fiat is the past.

There's no way around it.

2tights

sr. member

Activity: 308

Merit: 251

I like big BITS and I cannot lie.

Quote from: Hqen2000 on March 27, 2014, 10:59:02 AM

Quote from: ebliever on March 27, 2014, 10:50:18 AM

The IRS has issued its ruling. Now let it try to enforce it.

Seriously, as the cryptocurrency ecosystem continues to grow, there is no longer going to be a need to cash out BTC for fiat currency, in which case how are they ever going to know what kind of profits or holdings in bitcoin you have? Unless they go all police-state on us and make every bitcoin service under the sun obtain identity data on every account they have (such as when you buy a Gyft card), this is not going to do much to harm bitcoin.

Even if they did try to put such burdens on US businesses, they could just move overseas, and the overseas ones would fill the void. The internet knows no boundaries, so it's not like we'll care if Gyft shifts to the Barbados, for example, instead of wherever they are registered now. The IRS ruling will become a 99% ignored laughingstock because they won't be able to enforce it.

This is accurate. The anonymous/untraceable nature of any cryptocurrency makes it easy to hide. But not everyone wants to break the law and risk going to jail. Anyone doing business in the #s that will make this taxable would mean that you are doing 100s of thousands of $USD in bitcoin. Which means you probably have more to lose (such as your money). Tax isn't THAT bad people.

If you want to break the law to make money there are also other options.

+1 best responses, yet.

Hqen2000

newbie

Activity: 35

Merit: 0

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Robert Paulson on March 27, 2014, 11:08:08 AM

taxing bitcoin investments is justified.
forcing someone who buys a cup of coffee with bitcoin to check if the coins he used were obtained when the exchange rate was lower than today and then reporting it to the IRS IS NOT justified.
this will move people away from using bitcoin as money.

Unless you buy $600 worth of coffee from the same entity, your example probably doesn't apply. But keep repeating it, by all means.

Consult a tax professional.

A capital gains tax (CGT) is a tax on capital gains, the profit realized on the sale of a non-inventory asset that was purchased at a cost amount that was lower than the amount realized on the sale.

2tights

sr. member

Activity: 308

Merit: 251

I like big BITS and I cannot lie.

Quote from: Bit_Happy on March 27, 2014, 11:09:25 AM

Quote from: BTCat on March 27, 2014, 09:57:22 AM

In fact now that people and businesses know how to treat cryptocurrencies they will finally take the step to move in on it.
Many potential buyers have been waiting on the sideline for more regulation and guidance. Offer them a bargain and it will all be bought up, trigger a new bullmarket.

Today's sell off is due to China not the IRS
OP is (probably) very wrong.

Yes, I definitely hope that you are right and I am wrong. I'm simply following the argument here, I prefer your truth.

2tights

sr. member

Activity: 308

Merit: 251

I like big BITS and I cannot lie.

Quote from: Lauda on March 27, 2014, 10:48:49 AM

Quote from: JPage on March 27, 2014, 10:11:33 AM

See if you can get that in Germany.

I don't mind taxes.

I don't mind paying taxes, either. That wasn't the point of my post. I saw somewhere the following analogy:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-25/bitcoin-is-property-not-currency-in-tax-system-irs-says.html

Today’s IRS guidance will provide certainty for Bitcoin investors, along with income-tax liability that wasn’t specified before. Purchasing a $2 cup of coffee with Bitcoins bought for $1 would trigger $1 in capital gains for the coffee drinker and $2 of gross income for the coffee shop.

I am against paying unrealistic taxes.

Bit_Happy

legendary

Activity: 2114

Merit: 1040

A Great Time to Start Something!

Quote from: BTCat on March 27, 2014, 09:57:22 AM

In fact now that people and businesses know how to treat cryptocurrencies they will finally take the step to move in on it.
Many potential buyers have been waiting on the sideline for more regulation and guidance. Offer them a bargain and it will all be bought up, trigger a new bullmarket.

Today's sell off is due to China not the IRS
OP is (probably) very wrong.

Robert Paulson

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

taxing bitcoin investments is justified.
forcing someone who buys a cup of coffee with bitcoin to check if the coins he used were obtained when the exchange rate was lower than today and then reporting it to the IRS IS NOT justified.
this will move people away from using bitcoin as money.

Topic: Bitcoin is doomed. Thanks IRS!!! You Ass hats! - page 11. (Read 19754 times)