Topic: Bitcoin Legal Tender in Central African Republic - page 4. (Read 3496 times)

For a nation to get the best out of bitcoin, a two or four-year plan will not be appropriate. The country should have a long-term term strategy. This is because using the four-year cycle doesn't guarantee profitability. Central African Republic lacks the political will to pursue and remain on track in the bitcoin race. The nation's lofty vision was not backed with the needed actions and external influence was too much for them to bear making them prematurely abandon the project. However the failure of CAR has not deterred Africans from embracing Bitcoin, and its adoption is spreading like wild fire in Africa.

Absolutely agree with you. To summarize, the situation will be like this:
1. Bitcoin will never save, any economy. For a simple reason - it cannot do it
2. Bitcoin is a good means to make money on speculative transactions. Yes, let me remind you again - cryptocurrency today is absolutely a speculative asset.  Well, or an opportunity to make money for not very honest people who can take advantage of the current problems of bitcoin owners and capitalize on them.

Everything else is fairy tales and dreams

What if you are appointed as a bitcoin investment manager by the Central African Republic? Would you consider the 4-year cycle of bitcoin? Will you buy and accumulate 2 years earlier until its next halving and then sell them after the halving year? I am not sure if the big financial institutions are doing this but more likely that some of them as already into this type of strategy.

The volatility of bitcoin will continue until it reaches its long-term potential. Maybe if the whole valuation of bitcoin reaches double digits in trillions of dollars its price will have difficulty making big waves. 

Volatility is inherent feature of all risky assets markets, offering opportunities for investors to enter or adjust their positions. In the  case of Bitcoin, the intensity of price fluctuations is comparatively higher, making it a defining characteristics of this digital currency. While managing this high volatility can be a challenging task, there are ways to deal with it and find positivity in both financial and psychological perspectives. One effective approach involves adopting a long term investment mindset when dealing with Bitcoin.

Yes.. it is a kind of sign of failing to sufficiently plan, and not being prepared to continue to buy if the BTC price were to fall or at least to HODL through the BTC price drops, and yeah it could take 3-5 years or even more for some of our BTC purchases to get back into profits if the BTC had ended up going down after our purchase.. and one of my personal solutions had been to continue to buy BTC even when my average cost per BTC may have been higher than the current price, and so maybe it still takes a while to get into profits (and sure it is not guaranteed to get into profits), but when the average cost per BTC comes down, then the threshold for getting into profits becomes lower and lower, and with an asset like bitcoin, the odds seem pretty decent that the price trajectory is UP, even though there may well continue to be long periods of down and/or flat BTC prices along the way.


You likely would not know a good example if it slapped you in the face.

Most likely you need to zoom out a bit, and if you were even attempting to be honest in your posts, you would be able to appreciate that bitcoin is amongst the best performing of broadly distributed assets of the past 10 years or so, and perhaps even the best.

Sure, there is no guarantee in regards to the future.. so position sizes should be adjusted in order to account for such lack of guarantee regarding where BTC might go in the future, even though its asymmetric UPside nature, likely suggest that it is good to have some stake in bitcoin, whether that is $100 or $1,000,000 or some amount that might be reasonable in regards to your budget.  In recent times, I have tended to recommend somewhere in the ballpark of 1% to 25% of any persons quasi-liquid investment portfolio, yet of course, people need to choose their own levels within that range or even outside of that range if they have some kind of a rationale for going outside of that range and at the same time, every person is responsible for his/her own allocation decision(s), including if their decisions happen to be NOT to invest at all into bitcoin, which is also a decision.


Well if they have no discretionary budget, then they likely are not in a position to invest into anything, so it would be stupid to invest into something if there is no discretionary income.. as you suggest.


You sound a bit patronizing.. and presumptuous.  I would think that it is in the interest of every single person to figure out his/her budget and to figure out ways to either live within his/her means, and to also use debt (if s/he has any credit or ways to use debt) in ways that are wise and within the parameters of his/her personal cashflows.. and sometimes it is not prudent to even use debt if a person might not even have discretionary income, as you suggest.,. The use of debt is a more advance technique of building wealth that would only come after a person makes sure that s/he has his/her shit together in terms of personal finances and budgeting.


If cannot figure out a long term way of investing into bitcoin, then maybe you deserve to get recked, and I would not blame bitcoin for the gambling mentality that is inculcated into people based on various broken fiat system incentives.

Yeah people feel like they have to gamble, so the approach a lot of things, including but not limited to bitcoin, with short-term thinking and short-term ways of considering getting in and out of their investments (which is most likely not investing but instead variations of gambling), and sometimes they might do o.k. with those in and out techniques, but it is likely that a majority of people getting in and out of something like bitcoin and failing/refusing to recognize bitcoin as a long term investment are not going to be able to advantage themselves by taking a more prudent/practical approach that might well be aggressive towards their bitcoin investment without crossing into overly aggressiveness.

So anyone who had been investing into bitcoin in a kind of solid way (such as using regular DCA buying) since early 2017 is likely doing quite well right now.  Take a person who had invested $100 per week since January 2017, by now such a person would have invested around $35k and would have accumulated right around 5.3 BTC, so surely not a bad place to be, even for someone who might have had some periods of high cost BTC and low cost BTC throughout that whole period.

So yeah there are ways to describe people who were not consistent and who bought their BTC high and sold low, but those are likely not problems with BTC because you can tinker around with that same DCA website variables that I had linked in order to see that the longer that you are investing into BTC, then more likely it becomes that you are going to end up being in profits, and sure maybe the person who has been DCA investing into BTC for only 2-3 years (or who got into BTC when BTC prices were going above $30k in early 2021) might barely be at break even BTC costs per BTC as compared with BTC prices, and might not even be in profits after nearly 3 years in bitcoin. but still does not seem to be a bad place to be, even if we look at a person who might have started buying $100 worth of BTC since January 2021, and such a person may well have ended up putting close to $14k into BT and have right around 0.5 BTC right now.. so not quite in profits.. and barely break even if we get back up to $28k... but still does not seem to be a bad place to be in terms of having hedges and having options.


Well, sure people might well be living paycheck to paycheck, but people do not tend to get paid daily, so maybe they get paid weekly, monthly or twice a month, and so they have to budget for their expenses for the whole month. .in which they might have daily allowances and/or some ways of measuring their expenses in order to figure out how much they can spend based on how much they make.
 

You did not even get my example correct.  I said that the guy had bought with $5k, and then around 6 months later, he came back and got around $2k for that, and it was a bit of a sad situation, but he has to take responsibility for his own finances, and if he did not have $5k to invest into bitcoin, then probably he should not have used that money, and maybe he would have been better off to buy BTC at $833 per month rather than $5k all at once, and maybe he should have ONLY been spending $500 per month ( which is the amount that he ended up losing, so we know that he could have afforded $500 per month since that is how much loss he ended up locking in). 

Maybe we can look at the DCA calculator in order to specifically look at his example.. and I had to go back, to the price charts for this.. so If he had bought $500 per month (or $116 per week) starting from January 15, 2018, then he would have accumulated a bit more than 0.36 BTC, which is actually more than he had bought for $5k at that same time in early January 2018.. so the amount of $3k that he ended up losing could have almost been like free BTC with a prudent, practical and ongoing BTC accumulation strategy that might involve something like DCA buying.

And yeah maybe he could have even invested his whole $5k over 6 months and he could have ended up getting more than 0.62 BTC and perhaps not panicking with the BTC price movements at that time which was around a 60% price drop at that time, and that we know ended up dropping even further for that period, since the BTC prices did end up going down to $3,124 in November 2018.. before returning back up and not returning to those sub $5k prices, except in the March 2020 crash event.


There's a positive answer if you are willing to open up your eyes and figure out to deal with volatility, since one of the most inevitable things in bitcoin is that it is going to continue to be volatile, and there are ways to deal with that in order to see the positivity of the matter both financially and psychologically.

Looking at the story he told as an example on a live experience with bitcoin price, buy and selling time, we should therefore embrace first the knowledge of knowing about how to buy, when to buy and why we should invest in bitcoin, base on the story and discussion, the buyer may only wsnted to buy and resell within a short time frame while within this same period was when the market price isn't favourable for a sell order, but in his case he can't keep continue to hold, this is one of the reasons we keep making this warning on every investors ear that bitcoin is not a get rich quick scheme, it's an investment that needs time to grow.

This is the best example of cryptocurrency failing to positively impact the economy and the masses. 90% of the world's population doesn't even have a more or less significant "financial cushion", and most importantly, they have no financial education or idea how it all works. The almost total majority of "hamsters" (home users) who rushed to buy crypto in 2017-2021 - were focused on the fabulous prospects of getting rich "in a week". In the end - all of them suffered losses, as they were simply neither financially nor morally ready to invest for a long period of time.

And these 90% of the population have a need for money - daily. And here volatility plays a cruel joke with them - they go to buy their last 5000 dollars bitcoin, and a month later... sell it for 2000 dollars. And their life gets even worse. It will be the same with the economy, which someone will try to build in the current situation, on bitcoin. That's what we need to prove.)

That's why there is no positive answer to the simple answer - which country/economy bitcoin helped to improve the situation - no positive answer.....

It is a good example how individuals can be driven by financial constraints to book losses when they take entry in Bitcoin market with the sole intention to make quick profit without implementing any form of risk management strategy. Your decision to buy back Bitcoin at lower than your initial selling price was a well thought decision rooted in your long term strategy. This scenario underscores that inherent volatility of Bitcoin market is a gift for those who know how to effectively manage risk.

You sound retarded... and as a disingenuine poster.

Everyone is responsible for their own timing in regards to when to get into bitcoin and how to get into bitcoin, and neither the seller nor the buyer is more able to predict the future, even if your assumption might be correct that the person holding BTC likely knows more about bitcoin than the person buying the BTC, especially if the buyer is a newbie and the seller happens to have been in bitcoin for several years, but even the asymmetric knowledge does not cause the transaction to be immoral or unethical or even unfair to the buyer.

I recall in about 2017, a person came to me, and he bought around $5k worth of bitcoin and the BTC price was then around $15k, so let's say that he got around 0.333 BTC for the amount that he gave me, and about 6 months later he came back to me, and the BTC price was around $6k, and he told me that he wanted to sell his BTC back to me. I told him that I thought that it was a bad idea.  I told him that if he had been in for the long term when he bought then he should either just wait it out or he should be buying more BTC and not selling BTC, yet he told me that he needed the money, and so I told him no problem.  I will buy back his BTC, so I ended up giving him right around $2k for the same BTC that he had bought for $5k...and I am not even sure what happened to him because I had ONLY met him for those two transactions and he is the one who would be responsible for his decisions regarding when to buy and when to sell, and I personally was an overall buyer, since any time that I sold bitcoin during those kinds of times, I would replace my bitcoin (buy and replace), so my selling and then subsequently buying bitcoin from him did not really make much of a difference to me in terms of my overall BTC balance at that time, except maybe I would have had skimmed a few percentage points off the top in order to accumulate a bit more BTC out of the deal.


It's quite probable that the invention and introduction of bitcoin results in an increasing of the size of the pie because more kinds of economic activities become possible and greater number of human activities and development are also made possible through several of the contributions of bitcoin into society.


You (SmartGold01) are likely being overly generous to be suggesting that DrBeer is actually correct about anything meaningful and/or materially relevant.. but hey you are free to come to your own conclusions regarding the arguable value, if any, of DrBeer's posts.

There's something that can never be argued because we know too well that the rise of bitcoin is gain or profits of another while the fall is lose to another but the tendency to utilize this opportunity then lies in the hands of the holder be it a trader or whatsoever.

Well I won't argue with you at some point because, any falling or fallen economy can never be built through bitcoin introduction, as I believe is left on the hands of their government to take appropriate care of their economy, I think bitcoin can only create additional opportunities to the inhabitants but as a means of restoring a fallen economy is something I can't say with all certainty.
You are absolutely correct!

ANY speculative business provides "new jobs". The problem is different - these jobs do not create the real sector of the economy, do not create added value. And if you also take into account the volatility of bitcoin - then answer this question: those some Nigerians who started making money by selling bitcoin to their fellow citizens for 60,000 dollars, what did they do with them? Honestly, without embellishments ? I am not going to give a graph of bitcoin value here, but whoever bought bitcoin "thanks" to these "working men" in November 2021 or April 2022 now have what ? That's right - half as much money. Understand - speculation brings income to some at the expense of losses of others. So the topic from one side is positive, but if you look from all sides - not everything is so positive ... If bitcoin is so good and gives easy to earn - why you do not deal only with it, and did not build your business empire ?

Don't you have everything figured out so well.

Since you seems to be a no coiner, if you don't change your position in the next 10 years, you are likely going to be looking quite foolish.

No guarantees of course, but if you choose to stay a no coiner for the next 10 years and fail/refuse to get off of zero, then good luck, you are going to need it.


It is good to attempt to develop bitcoin related skills that might go beyond merely buying bitcoin, and it may not even be necessary to develop any bitcoin related skills beyond merely making sure that you don't lose your coins.

Otherwise getting involved in bitcoin may well be bonus skills  -that may additionally help out people who learn those skills, but again there is likely going to continue to be a lot of individual variation regarding the extent to which bitcoin skills are developed beyond merely buying and holding bitcoin...there is also risk that comes from engaging in businesses that could cause someone who might have otherwise been bitcoin profitable to not be profitable because of engaging in a business... and I am not necessarily not to engage in those kinds of activities, because engaging in bitcoin related businesses, may well end up contributing towards compounding of the returns..

Of course, there are likely various countries, including several in Africa in which there are not very many banking services, so bitcoin surely could provide opportunities on broad levels that are otherwise not easily available to the regular population.

Do we need to be proven first to know that the advent of bitcoin has really help people around their inhabitants?
Yes naturally bitcoin hasn't changed or stopped any economy crisis but I can say that since the introduction of bitcoin it has reduced the unemployment rate in most of the Africans countries especially "Nigeria" I can imagine series of men involving themselves into bitcoin trade, while some in one way involved themselves into freelancing jobs and they got paid through bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency out there.

There are some people who are opportunist, they ventured into bitcoin investment at the appropriate time and today they are one way or the other made, I think it's a good example to say introduction of bitcoin has really help in reducing and eradicating (eradicates) the unemployment rate in the globe especially those countries that is found fully involved in bitcoin usage ( these include: trading, investment, mining etc).

For bitcoin to be introduced as a local currency it would be something that is globally legalized as a means of payment and even as that I don't think that could easily eliminate fiat in their position rather it could be an additional payment options instead of replacing fiat entirely. Between I can't see any digital currency to be a competitor of fiat rather seem to act collectively to scale up the means of payment method as they works together as one currency.

I didn't expect any other answer  

The best proof of my rightness, your hysterical, embittered outbursts, without any argumentation and attempts to explain your point of view ...

In general, this is the "normal" position of fans of fairy tales and delusions - to believe in what they want, but at the same time wildly hate and deny reality At the same time, not a single fan of such fairy tales, for all the time when I ask similar questions, could not give a single more or less real argument in favor of his blind faith. So, once again - your position and "arguments", are "normal"

The example would be good if it were not "synthetic", or rather "laboratory".  Yes, I agree - you can create a limited society where bitcoin (or any altcoin) becomes the state currency, and this "quasi-state" will attract crypto-geeks. But that's not a real economy in an unreal country. That's where the whole problem lies...

Get the fuck out of here.

I don't have any burden or obligation to try to make any kind of case to establish that bitcoin has improved some country in order to make my earlier point that was largely asserting that your earlier post was full of shit.  You are the one who has the burden to prove your case rather than me.


Again, there is no need for me to make any argument about anything or to point to anything.  Bitcoin is a world-wide phenomena and there are several countries around the world that are taking bitcoin into account, with various kinds of legislation, various  levels of allowance and disallowance, and little by little bitcoin is seeping into all countries... it is like a grass roots up phenomena or like a trojan horse.. little by little is going to continue to eat away at all the inferior monies around the world and its various network effects are going to continue to grow and build.


This does not make any sense.  I was not setting forth any vision.  I was merely responding to your various mostly illogical points.
 

Let's try to deal with the what is going on rather than making shit up. 

Bitcoin is what it is, and it has been in existence for nearly 15 years and growing the whole time, and you can call it whatever you like, but to me it seems to be ongoingly growing.   Do what you like, and have whatever perception that you like.  Hopefully, if you have a decent time longer to live, then you are not too late
to get some in case it catches on a bit more than it already has.  But hey, again, you can do what you like in terms of whether to get into bitcoin and if so how much to get in.  If you choose to continue to stay out, then that's your choice, too.

I could argue with you at length, and I could make arguments, but-- I don't see the point. A good answer to prove YOUR point would be a detailed answer, with concrete data, to my simple question: name the country/countries where the introduction of bitcoin as a domestic currency (we both understand the difference between currency and means of payment) has helped solve economic problems, change the situation for the better, and improve economic performance.
I admit that I was wrong, and you are right only in the case of: the name of at least 1 country, and the real indicators of the economy before the introduction of bitcoin and indicators of the economy and living standards of the population, after the introduction of bitcoin ? And of course it must be a real country, with a real economy !
Otherwise - your long post is just your fantasy - don't take offense

PS I've known bitcoin for a long time, and earlier I also "hovered in the clouds", thinking that here is a new financial system for the world, ideal !... Then "came down to earth", sorted out the reality, and ... Now I adhere to a slightly different position

Well, it can, in a way... Bitcoin can help attract foreign investors who are looking for a quiet Bitcoin-friendly place, perhaps for retirement. Remember Bitcoin City project in El Salvador?   

You likely need to learn more about bitcoin.  Sure it employs technology in a way that is a kind of money and it is already successful in that direction, and if you actually think about the properties of money then bitcoin seems to be amongst the best of monies that the world has ever experienced.. still in its early days..

You can argue all you like about technology and blah blah blah.. and such arguments would probably show that you are confusing what bitcoin is and maybe even getting bogged down in various shitcoin ideas rather than figuring out bitcoin first in terms of what it has done and the various ways that the incentives and the adoption increasing network effects are playing out.


You are likely right that bitcoin cannot fix all problems... even though there are a lot of ways that money is screwed up in the world, and likely having a kind of sound money could go in the right direction towards making some things better, but yeah, it would not be automatically fixing  some of the screwed up things in the world.


There are several benefits regarding having sound money (like bitcoin) available, so yeah, there may well be other work that needs to be carried out, but sound money does likely improve incentives in some of the ways that traditional monies around the world have a lot of problems and corruptions.


You seem to just be presuming that the current system of various governments issuing currencies is the way forward.  Likely you are failing/refusing to think about the matter with enough of an imagination... which likely shows that you do not seem to understand how some of the various perverted ways that money printing is a problem and how it ends up choosing winners/losers and robbing from the overall population.. but your mind seems to be stuck in a kind of thinking that starts from working within the current system to try to figure out how to tweak it. rather than realizing that the printing of money is problematic.. even when governments exercise restraint, they end up trapped into bailing themselves out by printing.


Of course, bitcoin is still pretty damned new, so Bitcoin's volatility so far,  is generally going up.. (especially if you zoom out a bit and look), so upward volatility is likely a part of a transferring of wealth from those who get it from those who do not get it, and yeah there is also speculation that is involved in such a process, and so earlier adopters are likely going to be advantaged more than later adopters and also those who invest into bitcoin in moderate ways that are within their means are likely going to be better off than those who do not sufficiently balance their level of aggressiveness in terms of making sure that they sufficiently/adequately protect themselves... not to get reckt.  

If you consider the matter, we are likely witnessing the greatest peaceful transfer of wealth that man has ever experienced that is also available to the masses, and this kind of a wealth transfer is not going to happen without a few battles along the way.. so hopefully you are not missing out on this, even if you might not have very much discretionary income, and so sometimes there is a need to make sure that you are investing into bitcoin with discretionary income and if you do not have very much of it, then you have to be careful not to overdo it, while at the same time making sure that you do not get mislead into thinking that you should not be at least be attempting to invest what you can into bitcoin.


You surely have not clearly said that...even though you made several fantasy-landia arguments in regards to your denial of the power of bitcoin, and hopefully, you have not failed/refused to make sure that you have some bitcoin instead of fucking around and seeming to be trying to persuade others that bitcoin is not any good, when you seem to either be just making shit up or just talking from a place of quite a bit of ignorance (while acting like you know what you are talking about).

Unfortunately the problem is that there will be no positive answer.....
First of all, you need to understand that bitcoin/blockchain is not money, it is a TECHNOLOGY.
Next...
First of all - the point is that bitcoin is not "Harry Potter's magic wand", when with one stroke something "unlikeable" can be turned into "beautiful"  
Secondly - you can't cure the economy by simply changing the means of payment.
Thirdly - for any economy, the lack of the ability to issue additional funds is a huge problem.
Fourth - volatility ....

All this clearly says - bitcoin can't help improve the standard of living of the population or fix the economy.