Topic: Bitcoin Legal Tender in Central African Republic - page 9. (Read 3553 times)

I suppose that I agree with you regarding the quite likely vacuous nature of crypto hype and metaverse crap.. I am not much of a fan for either of those in terms of bringing real and/or practical value, but your seemingly ongoing mixing bitcoin into such framework seems to show either that your thinking about bitcoin may well be quite foggy.

Let me talk a bit about bitcoin first before getting back to your seeming to mix up the ideas of bitcoin, crypto and metaverse.

Of course, bitcoin does not need any kind of top down support, whether governments, institutions, rich peeps, financial pumping tools or otherwise; however, so long as bitcoin continues to survive (an no reason to think that it is dying or shrinking), then it is going to end up affecting all segments of society sooner or later, and some segments will be sooner to adopt and/or get involved than others.  There may not be a whole hell of a lot that any of us can do about it, but that does not stop any of us trying to influence in various ways or even to consider our own involvement whether that is with the investment of time, energies and/or ideas contributions.  Governments are public institutions so surely you have the right to try to affect how they are involved in various kinds of ways, and there are so many governments around the world that are going to be making a variety of choices in terms of how fast or slowly they want to get into bitcoin, and in the end, bitcoin gives few shits and does not need them, but they need bitcoin.. sooner or later.. .and in that regard, it is probably better for the vast majority of governments to figure out some ways to get involved in bitcoin sooner rather than later, whether financially investing into it, building infrastructure around it or getting involved in the information space in terms of learning and teaching about it.

Regarding your seeming ongoing convolution of bitcoin with crypto and metaverse and all kinds of nonsense like that... They are not the same thing.. Sure there are all kinds of shitcoins and shitcoin projects and ICOS, Defi, NFTs and blah blah blah scams. .metaverse and its game tokens.. You do not need to wrap them up with your thinking about bitcoin, even though bitcoin does allow for those various scams to be built on it and around it, and surely much of that crap and those scams would go away if bitcoin were to go away.  The facts that scams exists is not the base case for bitcoin.. and bitcoin is not even built in order to facilitate scams (even though it seems that ethereum is built in that kind of a way).  Anyhow, it just seems to me that you are getting mixed up about bitcoin if you start out by considering it as a bunch of scams, when the base case for bitcoin is a sound money system... and those other scams and baloney are built around it.



Yes,  of course.  Governments seem to ONLY be recently wanting to get into bitcoin.. and they are barely just coming into bitcoin.


You seem to be quite mixed up here.

El Salvador seems to be attempting to adopt a bitcoin first approach, and so far really not getting involved in shitcoins.  Since they are less than 1 year after the implementation, it seems to be way too early to know how all of their implementation and various developments around bitcoin are going to play out in El Salvador.

The Central African Republic approach seems much more amorphous, and there are some difficulties to understand and appreciate how they could even be attempting to take any kind of reasonable (and non scam) approach, when they do not even seem to be focusing on bitcoin.. So far, based on information so far available, and even their own limited promotional materials, it does seem difficult to take the CAR approach in any kind of serious way.. so yeah, they may well just be getting caught up in some scam angle approach that is not really seem to be practical for the people of CAR..


That number go up technology is the way bitcoin was built.. whether we like it or not.. it is part of the incentive structure built into bitcoin's ability to transmit information (and for the first time information that can have value attached at the same time without a third party and without an ability to double spend it).



Bitcoin no doesn't work like that.

You are describing a ponzi scheme.. bitcoin is not a ponzi scheme.

Bitcoin has value in and of itself, and there are a lot of ways that can be shown and argued.

Within bitcoin's so far 13.5 years of existence, we can already see that it is being adopted from a variety of angles.. seeming to be more from the bottom up in the beginning years and more recently there are more top down forces, and not all of them friendly to bitcoin - especially if they assess bitcoin as a threat, but even if they assess bitcoin as a threat, the longer bitcoin exists the more and more resources they have to attempt to throw at it in order to attempt to battle it.. so with the passage of time, all of bitcoin's network effects continue to grown in Lindy effect style - tick tock the next block, and sure there can be set backs and intensive battles, but the incentives built into bitcoin seem to cause more possible benefits to work within it rather than to work against it.. whether we are talking about individuals, institutions and/or governments.



It does not really matter if we want bitcoin to go down or up.. it is already built to go up...

Yeah, in the short term we cannot really tell how long various battles are going to last, and the powers that be (and the bearwhales) do want to try to push its price down as far as they can get it to go and to keep it down for as long as they can, but so far in bitcoin's history, it has been frequently shown that they lose those kinds of battles on a fairly regular basis... so bitcoin's price goes back up and that may well be part of the explanation regarding why it explodes upwardly from time to time (because it had been held down too far and for too long).

Sure you are free to have your theories about bitcoin being pumped and that it is price is above value and all of those kinds of ways of looking at it, but in the end, for your own good, it would be better that you at least maintain some kind of ongoing investing stake in it - sooner rather than later.. ..


We are looking at this matter differently because I am not presuming that any bitcoin investment theory is merely going to put poor countries back to the position that they were previously.


I am not really into homework assignments.  I am not going to disagree that some locations may well have fewer resources to work from than other locations, so are we going to proclaim that their hands are tied, and that they cannot get their finances in order in order to potentially be able to advantage their situation from bitcoin? They are supposed to just to give up?

You have to love the logic on this one, you simply have to! And?
Not all Africans are poor so some will buy coins and the others who are dirt poor will...still be dirt poor and with no coins!
Where is the economical revolution in this case?


Yup, those powerplants that supply energy to :

Exactly, the details, that a lot don't want to hear because it breaks the mantra of the pure angelic savior.

Their only escape via Bitcoin from their precarious financial position is for Bitcoin to gain value, there is no other way, but in order for Bitcoin to grow and help those countries, there is a need for a second buyer with larger pockets, which ironically will make them stand again at the mercy of the rich countries. It's pretty easy to understand, quite clearly Bitcoin going down won't help anyone, Bitcoin going up will not happen if there isn't someone willing to buy at a higher price, and there are no poor persons able to do that.

Ironic, isn't it? Their escape from poverty means again depending on someone with deeper pockets, and we all know which those countries are!


There is something else needed before all that, but since I already know it will piss a lot of people, I'll just say go watch "empire of dust".
That needs to be taken care of first.

I hardly doubt that the bitcoin investment put El Salvador materially at risk of default more than they were before starting their investment.
Of course the Bitcoin Investment is putting more pressure on them, given the "unfriendliness" of the actors supposed to help them in the recovery process, namely the IMF.
But, of course, better to struggle by yourself, than to be helped by the suffocating hand of the IMF.

I mean, surely there are more other important things to do than chasing over the crypto hype, even to the metaverse crap. Bitcoin doesn't need that govt's support, stamp some paper and say we'll use it. Before the govt came, users are already using it anyway. All seem like a ploy to drain more govt's budget over something that meets little resistance because Bitcoin was cool and the trend now. Similar to the El Salvador case that people are quiet down compared to back then when everyone in bitcointalk hailed it as the second Christ coming.
Pure corruption from El Salvador and the next will be the African countries but hey, it was Bitcoin 'cool and chill' now so the public won't bat an eye.

Yes, every talk about the majority of Africans being poor, it's always the rich kid who comes and says 'what about us?'. It is like a class where the majority of students have low scores. When the teachers want to address that but there was that kid with the A+ score comes and blocks the initial since it hurt his pride. If you still don't get why people talk about Africans being poor, think it was to marginalize African people while you stigma the poor and deny their existence, their problem then sorry, I think we are done here.
Hey, at least I agree with you about the problem of Africa wasn't just the necessities but also corruption.

Africa might have a large population of poor inhabitants but not all Africans are poor. Most of the countries mentioned in your post have some of the highest Bitcoiners in the world. Nigeria is an example of the Bitcoin revolution regardless of government restrictions. It is also very important to state that Bitcoin adoption would not necessarily need a perfect condition to function. The government doesn't need to build a special internet facility or electric power plant for Bitcoin operations, existing facilities can be used. And as the economic condition of the country improve, Bitcoin transactions would become better and popular. Food, water, and education are not the cardinal challenges of Africa but corruption is its main disease.

I am not sure if you are misstating me or not.

I surely would not make the conclusion that any country should eliminate the inclusion of bitcoin into any of their plans forward merely because they are in a precarious financial position.   Bitcoin is a financial instrument that likely could help countries that are in precarious financial positions, so the devil is likely in the details regarding how to employ it and how much, not so much wether.. but in any case, it is likely good for any country, local government, institution or individual to get their finances in some kind of order before they sloppily get into new things (such as bitcoin) without having some kind of a budget plan and then other considerations as well.. .which may be infrastructure and also various kinds of ways that their already set up in terms of types of industries or agriculture and of course, we talked about internet, electricity and/or cell phones. Surely some other considerations too.. but I doubt that bitcoin would need to be eliminated from consideration merely because finances are not so good in the country or there are other lackings as already mentioned.

Seeing how JayJuanGee talked about El Salvador's fucked up and introduced Bitcoin as legal tender. El Salvador govt invested a huge amount of Bitcoin when the country was on the verge of debt default. Hey, would you look at that, plenty of African countries are in the danger zone too (pic).
The last thing the African govt needs to worry about is Bitcoin and more about getting their population out of poverty, just saying. Or at least, use blockchain to solve real problems like food, water, and education,...

Game?


Why would the world use an application based and controlled by a government that tomorrow might be overthrown or in the worst-case scenario but still plausible the whole country won't be there anymore? I'm not even mentioning corruption and how "secure' your funds will be in a centralized app run by a wanna-be dictator.


It also kills the stupid! 

who can explain the interest of the "new" metaverse ?

The Sango app has already been made available for users across the world to engaged with the use of their apps in accessing their services, the tokenization of their natural resources is one if the vital decision for their coin utility.



 they seem to embark on which could also bring a boost on their economy as the world can have access through their services via the Sango app from anywhere around the world, they also considers the abundance of the riverine regions for the generation of a renewable energy for bitcoin mining.

 

i believe with all these development things could go well with Central African Republic bitcoin adoption as it has in place the conducive environment created through the launch of Sango bitcoin hub in boosting it economy.

I would guess that metaverse should be priority if you are building a proper game. I mean don't get me wrong, it shouldn't be something that is major and suddenly like "this is better than the real world!!!" type of deal, but it ain't a bad world to live in neither. We all remember the talks and hype about "ready player one movie is becoming a reality" and then we all saw that roblox/minecraft type of metaverse shit and realized how long we still have for that.

But, there are at least some teams working on building some decent games which has a universe. Hell, imagine Eve online, it has been there for a long time, imagine that but in crypto world, wouldn't that be awesome?

I don't disagree with anything that you are saying in terms of the level of challenges facing countries on the lowest level of the infrastructure, and surely they likely need to get their shit together... yet I still doubt that you are presenting any kind of slam dunk case that precludes the use of bitcoin and/or sound money to supplement rebuilding and/or getting your shit together... ..

In other words, to me you seem to be presenting a case for "how much to invest?" or "how to invest?"  rather than "whether to invest?"  

There are ways in which Bitcoin is good for everyone who is capable of putting a budget together.., especially something like a government.  .. even the governments that are in the worst of financial shape.. and part of the reason is that bitcoin is both a financial instrument and the soundest of monies ever in existence.  Sure there are problems of morality and ethics and corruption, but I am not going to automatically presume people to be immoral and corrupt, so that was part of the way that I had framed my earlier response in terms of imagining someone with ethics using bitcoin to rebuild.. there are ways that even the poorest of countries could be advantaged by bitcoin.

There are poor countries ( countries like El Salvador) and then there are countries like CAR which are several levels below that on absolutely every parameter. It's just that I don't see how country where only ~15% people have access to electricity can implement something as tehnically demanding, and bitcoin being legal tender definitely is. It's one thing to proclaim something and entirely different to actually implement it.

Beside them not having basic infrastructure, its also questionable how useful something as volatile as bitcoin would be in the country where people have issues buying food. Imagine being on such a tight budget that you can barely feed your family, and then bitcoin you got goes 10-20% down, meaning you won't be able to afford food.

CAR has much bigger issues to sort out before bitcoin can help them and that's why I think all this has been nothing but a stunt.



Imagine the level of poverty there when El Salvador (which is seen as a 3rd world country) has GDP per capita 8x higher.

Mhh you are probably right.
If I Look at the GDP per person in CAR I get 511 USD.




So yes, probably I was shooting too high!
Tomorrow I'll try to do the podcast transcript.

Regarding the idea of "pipe dream," I would not be so bold (or bitcoin naysaying) as to proclaim that the mere fact that a country is either poor or strife with civil conflict that it would not be able to work towards some kind of integrity-based adoption of bitcoin - even though it seems pretty damned clear that integrity-based would not be including shitcoins in the mix (at least not in the early stages)..

Surely, I am not proclaiming to know all (or even many) of the implementation answers, but there are likely ways to attempt to build integrity and credibility by focusing on bitcoin first, and so far El Salvador has been showing a decently good model for this - yet I am not going to be afraid to slay my heros in the event that El Salvador starts to fuck up and substantially start to deviate from what seems to be a decently good integrity-based boyscout try at a bitcoin first approach... ..



It seems to me that you (stompix) have gotten too attached to an avatar on the interwebs.  #justsaying.

Fillippone should go there..


Fortune favors the brave.

Good luck fillippone (let us know if there are any hot chicks there).

Better you than me.  

 


Admittedly, working on metaverse focuses does seem pretty strange (yeah stompix said it about the idea of some kind of realistic implementation of metaverse anywhere seems a bit lame, too) - including that there cannot be too many locations in which the electricity is very reliable.. except maybe there are urban pockets and then the security around any kind of affluent location would need to be pretty strong too.

Security through obscurity, so its almost like you would have to be an insider to get into some of those kinds of circles, and even then, the quantity of the population that are affluent enough to be able to participate seems like it would not be very BIG in order to even have some kind of a reasonable vision of growth from within the country.. so there would likely be a lot of reliance on outside interest and hype (so that the rug pull might become effective when it happens)...

Nice, fully diluted mcap of 2 billion. I am just looking at their tokenomics and it seems like 20% of the total supply is up for public sale, meaning total raise is at least $400,000,000 and realistically much higher as price during public sale will go up to $0.45.  Ridiculous numbers, but then again what about Sango is not ridiculous? I already saw on that tweet someone complained that $500 minimum buy in is too high.


Hm, CAR has $250 average salary? This somehow seems way too high for one of the poorest countries in the world as I thought their average must be under $100.

Should metaverse be a priority anywhere?
Not even in a developed country the whole metaverse which, (no! not even going to waste my time on the whole virtual world concept rebranding to sell nearly useless stuff under a different name ) is a priority, it shouldn't be even for private companies that should stick to making jeans and shoes rather than selling avatars and land plots.

I can't wait for that podcast, I've gone through their Genesis Paper and there is so much stuff there than raises one truckload of questions, some really outrageous, like the integration of a healthcare monitor. Healthcare, what healthcare! Reading that and seeing on booking a hotel with barbwire in Bagui, I'm definitely curious about the reality on the ground, and! please tell me you're not the one investigating there! 

In the show i earlier mentioned they are going to disclose a little bit about this.

Just remember we are not talking about a developed county, but a third world country where the average income is 250 dollars.
Are we sure the priority is a metaverse island?

I hope he isn't!
There is still war going there and a secret mission toa  warzone is not really that much of a holiday!


Politicians don't do pranks, they do plunder.



Yeah, Bitcoin Island, futuristic skyscrapers, tokens backed by mineral resources!Where and how many times have I heard this thing? Petro? Akoncity?

But seriously, this Sango has everything
- Crypto city and Crypto Island
- Metaverse
- Defi and Digital National Bank
- Backed by mineral resources /democratization fo resources
- African Crypto hub
- Renewables for crypto mining
- E-residency, 0% tax for everything

They crammed everything, every single perk they could find in this coin.
And they plan to do all this with 21 billion tokens worth 10 cents each meaning 2 billion. Yeah right!

Yes, the pledge, although partial, of its natural resources for the release of Sango coin is probably a rash decision, but for a CAR where there is an endless civil war and besides, a private military company from Russia provides assistance, I certainly would not trust such an ICO.