Bitcoin or gold? - page 515. | Bitcointalksearch.org

RealBitcoin

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Quote from: n2004al on September 29, 2015, 09:17:56 AM

Can you tell me the amount of "your" value of bitcoin and explain me it why that amount of value is that amount? In economy if the value have no amount there is not value.

I can do this with "my" value.

Its hard to measure, and i`m not an expert in valuation analysis.

But it's a common thing in economy that value not always equal price. This makes the markets inefficient, and can give opportunity for speculators to exploit this.

But just to give an estimate: I`d value bitcoin at over 2000$/piece right now personally.

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Quote from: RealBitcoin on September 29, 2015, 08:55:30 AM

Quote from: n2004al on September 29, 2015, 02:31:11 AM

Quote from: RealBitcoin on September 28, 2015, 09:55:27 PM

That is true but if the derivative market collapses, there it goes the whole economy. 1 ounce of gold bought you a nice suit 100 years ago, it does the same today. Regardless of how many 0 you put next to a printed toilet paper fiat.

But bitcoin on the other hand can raise in (real) value too. While gold is inflationary, with no new value added to it at all, it only preserves value.

On the other hand bitcoin gains value each day, independent of fiat. Why because bitcoin is actually used as a currency, gold is not.

1 bitcoin would buy you a suit now, but in 10 years it will buy you a yacht probably

It is not true the part in blue and in bold. Bitcoin is not gains any value each day. The true value of currency (bitcoin) is value that currency (bitoin) has in market and the value of bitcoin in market has about ten months that is almost stable.

Actually bitcoin gains value each day, that's a fact.

The price may or may not reflect that, but the value of it is going up, look here:

https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-excluding-popular

https://blockchain.info/charts/n-unique-addresses

https://blockchain.info/charts/estimated-transaction-volume

https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate

Both the mining is expanding, and the number of users / nr of bitcoins moved from 1 place to another. These are all giving value to bitcoin.

The fact that the price of bitcoin doesn't reflect this, that`s another thing, but you can't deny that the value is going up.

Can you tell me the amount of "your" value of bitcoin and explain me it why that amount of value is that amount? In economy if the value have no amount there is not value.

I can do this with "my" value.

RealBitcoin

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Quote from: deisik on September 29, 2015, 09:00:14 AM

Quote from: RealBitcoin on September 29, 2015, 08:55:30 AM

I can be 90% sure that it will exist in 10 years. I think we have already passed the time from speculation about it's existence.

The only way bitcoin would go away is if the internet were to go too, but that is not a very likely scenario, certainly less than 1% probable.

I can even say that i believe its >99% sure that it will be here in 10 years Cheesy

But could you guarantee that it will be worth a yacht (or at least a decent boat, for that matter)?

No i cant guarantee, i just said it's a probable scenario. Anything could go wrong, but in terms of probability, it's less likely.

If it can go up to 1000$ just because of a hype, imagine how much it can go up if it really starts to become used and useful.

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Quote from: RealBitcoin on September 29, 2015, 08:55:30 AM

I can be 90% sure that it will exist in 10 years. I think we have already passed the time from speculation about it's existence.

The only way bitcoin would go away is if the internet were to go too, but that is not a very likely scenario, certainly less than 1% probable.

I can even say that i believe its >99% sure that it will be here in 10 years Cheesy

But could you guarantee that it will be worth a yacht (or at least a decent boat, for that matter)?

RealBitcoin

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Quote from: n2004al on September 29, 2015, 02:31:11 AM

Quote from: RealBitcoin on September 28, 2015, 09:55:27 PM

That is true but if the derivative market collapses, there it goes the whole economy. 1 ounce of gold bought you a nice suit 100 years ago, it does the same today. Regardless of how many 0 you put next to a printed toilet paper fiat.

But bitcoin on the other hand can raise in (real) value too. While gold is inflationary, with no new value added to it at all, it only preserves value.

On the other hand bitcoin gains value each day, independent of fiat. Why because bitcoin is actually used as a currency, gold is not.

1 bitcoin would buy you a suit now, but in 10 years it will buy you a yacht probably

It is not true the part in blue and in bold. Bitcoin is not gains any value each day. The true value of currency (bitcoin) is value that currency (bitoin) has in market and the value of bitcoin in market has about ten months that is almost stable.

Actually bitcoin gains value each day, that's a fact.

The price may or may not reflect that, but the value of it is going up, look here:

https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-excluding-popular

https://blockchain.info/charts/n-unique-addresses

https://blockchain.info/charts/estimated-transaction-volume

https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate

Both the mining is expanding, and the number of users / nr of bitcoins moved from 1 place to another. These are all giving value to bitcoin.

The fact that the price of bitcoin doesn't reflect this, that`s another thing, but you can't deny that the value is going up.

Quote from: deisik on September 29, 2015, 03:41:00 AM

Quote from: RealBitcoin on September 28, 2015, 09:55:27 PM

On the other hand bitcoin gains value each day, independent of fiat. Why because bitcoin is actually used as a currency, gold is not.

1 bitcoin would buy you a suit now, but in 10 years it will buy you a yacht probably

The main problem with Bitcoin (and you will have to admit it) is that you can't even be 90% sure that it will merely exist in 10 years (let alone be worth a yacht)...

But with gold you can

I can be 90% sure that it will exist in 10 years. I think we have already passed the time from speculation about it's existence.

The only way bitcoin would go away is if the internet were to go too, but that is not a very likely scenario, certainly less than 1% probable.

I can even say that i believe its >99% sure that it will be here in 10 years Cheesy

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Quote from: Miss Fortune on September 29, 2015, 02:24:10 AM

Quote from: tkbx on March 09, 2014, 02:21:54 PM

If you had to convert all your wealth to either Bitcoin or gold and keep it there for 10 years, which would you choose? Keep in mind the fact that Bitcoin has only been around for 5 years, and could be fundamentally different in any number of ways in 10 years.

The price and value of gold is already been established for many years, gold is like many other metals can be a good investment but if I have to choose between gold and biticoin I would choose biticoin, because it is new and I know it is not an ordinary investment.

Yes bitcoin either it can give you very good profits or you will lose investments more as well.

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Quote from: RealBitcoin on September 28, 2015, 09:55:27 PM

On the other hand bitcoin gains value each day, independent of fiat. Why because bitcoin is actually used as a currency, gold is not.

1 bitcoin would buy you a suit now, but in 10 years it will buy you a yacht probably

The main problem with Bitcoin (and you will have to admit it) is that you can't even be 90% sure that it will merely exist in 10 years (let alone be worth a yacht)...

But with gold you can

n2004al

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Quote from: RealBitcoin on September 28, 2015, 09:55:27 PM

That is true but if the derivative market collapses, there it goes the whole economy. 1 ounce of gold bought you a nice suit 100 years ago, it does the same today. Regardless of how many 0 you put next to a printed toilet paper fiat.

But bitcoin on the other hand can raise in (real) value too. While gold is inflationary, with no new value added to it at all, it only preserves value.

On the other hand bitcoin gains value each day, independent of fiat. Why because bitcoin is actually used as a currency, gold is not.

1 bitcoin would buy you a suit now, but in 10 years it will buy you a yacht probably

It is not true the part in blue and in bold. Bitcoin is not gains any value each day. The true value of currency (bitcoin) is value that currency (bitoin) has in market and the value of bitcoin in market has about ten months that is almost stable.

Miss Fortune

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Quote from: tkbx on March 09, 2014, 02:21:54 PM

If you had to convert all your wealth to either Bitcoin or gold and keep it there for 10 years, which would you choose? Keep in mind the fact that Bitcoin has only been around for 5 years, and could be fundamentally different in any number of ways in 10 years.

The price and value of gold is already been established for many years, gold is like many other metals can be a good investment but if I have to choose between gold and biticoin I would choose biticoin, because it is new and I know it is not an ordinary investment.

futurebit640

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Quote from: roadbits on September 28, 2015, 09:48:25 PM

Quote from: MasterYii on September 28, 2015, 09:34:57 PM

Quote from: tkbx on March 09, 2014, 02:21:54 PM

If you had to convert all your wealth to either Bitcoin or gold and keep it there for 10 years, which would you choose? Keep in mind the fact that Bitcoin has only been around for 5 years, and could be fundamentally different in any number of ways in 10 years.

If I have the chance to choose between the two and would literally have it with me I would choose gold, I think it is acceptable in every part of the world.

Your choice is very good. Gold has proven that it will give a good returns over time. But the price movements are slow and its price will not move very fast instead it will go very slowly in both directions (moving up or downwards). I also regularly buy the gold and sell when I make a good profits.

That is correct one should invest gold only for the long term investment purpose and bitcoin is always good for trading purposes because of its volatility but now a days bitcoin prices are quite stable so quite difficult to make money from trading.

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Quote from: RealBitcoin on September 28, 2015, 09:55:27 PM

.

1 bitcoin would buy you a suit now, but in 10 years it will buy you a yacht probably

Im not sure with your opinion, and i didn't agree it
in my opinion Bitcoin Just a Internet of money, not a currency,

bitcoin is about of technology of money, the bitcoin technology will be adopted by banks in the world and Im not sure bitcoin can up to 10.000$

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Quote from: markj113 on September 28, 2015, 04:13:22 PM

Quote from: RealBitcoin on September 28, 2015, 02:10:07 PM

Quote from: markj113 on September 28, 2015, 11:31:18 AM

Quote from: cellard on September 28, 2015, 11:26:50 AM

Gold is boring, no one is going to be rich during our lifetimes by holding Gold that's for sure. Now with Bitcoin, we have way bigger chances at becoming millionaires than we have by holding Gold. Similarly, there are bigger chances of seeing 1 BTC go to 1MM than it going to 0.

Strangely my view is the complete opposite.

Only time will tell as no one has a crystal ball

Really? Gold has already trillions in market cap.

If gold were to go up to 1 million $/ ounce then maybe, but that would imply quntillions of market cap...

Bitcoin has far better chance to get to 1 million $ than gold ounce.

Gold market cap is currently around $6.6 trillion.

Why not a market cap $66 trillion giving a $11k an oz price? or $660 trillion giving a $110k an oz price.

When you have printing presses creating never ending quantitative easing (US, China, EU) then you can eventually pick a number, double it and add a few zero's to price of gold.

At the moment its not even the printing presses.

Leverage itself used in brokerage accounts / banks are also money created out of thin air. The QE is the least of the problems.

Quote from: deisik on September 28, 2015, 04:47:41 PM

Even a $660 trillion gold market would be dwarfed by the derivatives market, one lost in so many zeroes

That is true but if the derivative market collapses, there it goes the whole economy. 1 ounce of gold bought you a nice suit 100 years ago, it does the same today. Regardless of how many 0 you put next to a printed toilet paper fiat.

But bitcoin on the other hand can raise in (real) value too. While gold is inflationary, with no new value added to it at all, it only preserves value.

On the other hand bitcoin gains value each day, independent of fiat. Why because bitcoin is actually used as a currency, gold is not.

1 bitcoin would buy you a suit now, but in 10 years it will buy you a yacht probably

roadbits

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Quote from: MasterYii on September 28, 2015, 09:34:57 PM

Quote from: tkbx on March 09, 2014, 02:21:54 PM

If you had to convert all your wealth to either Bitcoin or gold and keep it there for 10 years, which would you choose? Keep in mind the fact that Bitcoin has only been around for 5 years, and could be fundamentally different in any number of ways in 10 years.

If I have the chance to choose between the two and would literally have it with me I would choose gold, I think it is acceptable in every part of the world.

Your choice is very good. Gold has proven that it will give a good returns over time. But the price movements are slow and its price will not move very fast instead it will go very slowly in both directions (moving up or downwards). I also regularly buy the gold and sell when I make a good profits.

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Quote from: smith coins on September 28, 2015, 01:48:29 PM

Quote from: bitcoinmar on July 25, 2015, 12:04:22 PM

Quote from: ralle14 on July 25, 2015, 07:36:52 AM

why not try 50 - 50 for each

Fifty fifty is never been good idea now Gold is also collapsing so taking this opportunity is not a bad idea I will go with Gold 65% and 35% with bitcoin

50-50 is not a good idea, because if you get some profit in the other then it is less.
If you loose then the lost is small and that is good, but our concern is to win so i would go mostly 70% in bitcoin and the rest in gold.

This time is not good to take 50 : 50
i will take 75% for Gold ( because Gold price is down)
and 25% for bitcoin , you can see now bitcoin price up +20% from $220

MasterYii

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Quote from: tkbx on March 09, 2014, 02:21:54 PM

If you had to convert all your wealth to either Bitcoin or gold and keep it there for 10 years, which would you choose? Keep in mind the fact that Bitcoin has only been around for 5 years, and could be fundamentally different in any number of ways in 10 years.

If I have the chance to choose between the two and would literally have it with me I would choose gold, I think it is acceptable in every part of the world.

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Quote from: markj113 on September 28, 2015, 04:13:22 PM

Quote from: RealBitcoin on September 28, 2015, 02:10:07 PM

Quote from: markj113 on September 28, 2015, 11:31:18 AM

Quote from: cellard on September 28, 2015, 11:26:50 AM

Gold is boring, no one is going to be rich during our lifetimes by holding Gold that's for sure. Now with Bitcoin, we have way bigger chances at becoming millionaires than we have by holding Gold. Similarly, there are bigger chances of seeing 1 BTC go to 1MM than it going to 0.

Strangely my view is the complete opposite.

Only time will tell as no one has a crystal ball

Really? Gold has already trillions in market cap.

If gold were to go up to 1 million $/ ounce then maybe, but that would imply quntillions of market cap...

Bitcoin has far better chance to get to 1 million $ than gold ounce.

Gold market cap is currently around $6.6 trillion.

Why not a market cap $66 trillion giving a $11k an oz price? or $660 trillion giving a $110k an oz price.

When you have printing presses creating never ending quantitative easing (US, China, EU) then you can eventually pick a number, double it and add a few zero's to price of gold.

Even a $660 trillion gold market would be dwarfed by the derivatives market, one lost in so many zeroes

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Quote from: RealBitcoin on September 28, 2015, 02:10:07 PM

Quote from: markj113 on September 28, 2015, 11:31:18 AM

Quote from: cellard on September 28, 2015, 11:26:50 AM

Gold is boring, no one is going to be rich during our lifetimes by holding Gold that's for sure. Now with Bitcoin, we have way bigger chances at becoming millionaires than we have by holding Gold. Similarly, there are bigger chances of seeing 1 BTC go to 1MM than it going to 0.

Strangely my view is the complete opposite.

Only time will tell as no one has a crystal ball

Really? Gold has already trillions in market cap.

If gold were to go up to 1 million $/ ounce then maybe, but that would imply quntillions of market cap...

Bitcoin has far better chance to get to 1 million $ than gold ounce.

Gold market cap is currently around $6.6 trillion.

Why not a market cap $66 trillion giving a $11k an oz price? or $660 trillion giving a $110k an oz price.

When you have printing presses creating never ending quantitative easing (US, China, EU) then you can eventually pick a number, double it and add a few zero's to price of gold.

Xenoph0bia

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Gold is always the first option for everyone as it exists from the ages and people have more trust on gold than bitcoins. On other hand Bitcoins is not yet universally accepted, many countries are not willing to regulate the bitcoins because of which there is lack of trust towards bitcoins. For the time being its better to invest large money in gold and less money on bitcoins, just to be on safer side.

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Quote from: RealBitcoin on September 28, 2015, 02:10:07 PM

Really? Gold has already trillions in market cap.

If gold were to go up to 1 million $/ ounce then maybe, but that would imply quntillions of market cap...

Bitcoin has far better chance to get to 1 million $ than gold ounce.

Going by your pathetic logic, shitcoins such as Quark, Ripple, Dogecoin and Ixcoin has a far better chance to get to the $1 million mark, when compared to Bitcoin (and gold). Their market cap is even lower than that of Bitcoin (1/10 to 1/100th of that of BTC). So according to your stupid logic, they must be having the maximum value rise.

smith coins

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Quote from: deisik on September 28, 2015, 01:54:33 PM

Quote from: smith coins on September 28, 2015, 01:48:29 PM

Quote from: bitcoinmar on July 25, 2015, 12:04:22 PM

Quote from: ralle14 on July 25, 2015, 07:36:52 AM

why not try 50 - 50 for each

Fifty fifty is never been good idea now Gold is also collapsing so taking this opportunity is not a bad idea I will go with Gold 65% and 35% with bitcoin

50-50 is not a good idea, because if you get some profit in the other then it is less.
If you loose then the lost is small and that is good, but our concern is to win so i would go mostly 70% in bitcoin and the rest in gold.

Since then gold has already stopped collapsing, lol. Not that its price is soaring right now, but it seems to have found its bottom at least. With Bitcoin, on the hand, you mostly don't know what to expect next, whether it will grow a few times or spiral down to two digits...

Gold is something that is "veteran" in the market and it can not loose their value like bitcoin does.
By holding bitcoins it is really foggy you can't see if its price will increase or not and it can be shut down and we don't have anything in hand. But as we are in bitcointalk forum and we like bitcoin i think to split the percentage in investing by 70% in gold and 30% in bitcoin if you are a fan of both, also it is not a bad idea to go 100% in bitcoin, it's people preference where to invest more.

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