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Topic: Bitcoin price cycles - page 16. (Read 26911 times)

uki
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
cryptojunk bag holder
December 03, 2015, 05:06:31 AM
#38
Technical analysis on Bitcoin is like technical analysis on penny stocks - worthless as the price can easily be manipulated by a single or a small group of investors, is very subject to news events, and the market is too small and immature.


Well, yes - but, the market is larger and more mature now than it has ever been, and the analysis done on it so far is based on the history of that manipulated market.  So, I would argue that if a model has applied to this point, it should be able to apply in future.  That is basically what I was getting at in the OP; I think what we are seeing are the elements of human nature being applied to a market space.  The tendencies toward greed, fear, manipulation, profit taking, etc., are what has driven the shape of the price graphs up to this point in time.  And that, together with it being such as small market, is why, for example, each time there is a dramatic price rise we see a sudden fall back to a midpoint and subsequent instability... people are taking profits, becoming scared (in some cases), and jumping on opportunities (in others).  It makes for dramatic, but very definite and noticeable, changes in price.


And you're trying to analyse a manipulated market? By your own statement?

 DOH!!!!!!


 You can't time manipulation, the people that can manipulate do it on their own schedual when THEY feel like it.

Well some gold bugs, analysing the market of gold in the last 15 years or so may disagree with you. They claim the market of gold is heavily manipulated and nevertheless they tend to analyse it, forecasting when the next orchestrated slam down will happen. And indeed, there are some patterns in it. In the end of the day, the humans are also behind the manipulation.
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1030
December 03, 2015, 03:02:08 AM
#37
Technical analysis on Bitcoin is like technical analysis on penny stocks - worthless as the price can easily be manipulated by a single or a small group of investors, is very subject to news events, and the market is too small and immature.


Well, yes - but, the market is larger and more mature now than it has ever been, and the analysis done on it so far is based on the history of that manipulated market.  So, I would argue that if a model has applied to this point, it should be able to apply in future.  That is basically what I was getting at in the OP; I think what we are seeing are the elements of human nature being applied to a market space.  The tendencies toward greed, fear, manipulation, profit taking, etc., are what has driven the shape of the price graphs up to this point in time.  And that, together with it being such as small market, is why, for example, each time there is a dramatic price rise we see a sudden fall back to a midpoint and subsequent instability... people are taking profits, becoming scared (in some cases), and jumping on opportunities (in others).  It makes for dramatic, but very definite and noticeable, changes in price.


 And you're trying to analyse a manipulated market? By your own statement?

 DOH!!!!!!


 You can't time manipulation, the people that can manipulate do it on their own schedual when THEY feel like it.
sr. member
Activity: 418
Merit: 252
Proud Canuck
December 02, 2015, 01:55:55 PM
#36
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2015/11/30/are-there-mice-on-mars/ -- humans tend to see patterns in randomness.  The one Bitcoin fundamental with a predictable period is the reward halving every 4 years; take it to the bank.

You are taking about Pareidolia - "a psychological phenomenon involving a stimulus (an image or a sound) wherein the mind perceives a familiar pattern of something where none actually exists."  I'm not saying I see Jesus or anything familiar in the graph.  I am pointing out a repeating pattern that seems to be displayed in the data.  Humans also have an exceptional ability to spot recurring patterns.
hero member
Activity: 709
Merit: 503
December 02, 2015, 12:07:32 PM
#35
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2015/11/30/are-there-mice-on-mars/ -- humans tend to see patterns in randomness.  The one Bitcoin fundamental with a predictable period is the reward halving every 4 years; take it to the bank.
sr. member
Activity: 418
Merit: 252
Proud Canuck
December 02, 2015, 11:51:30 AM
#34
There is not too much to discuss for about 300 days, then it will be very interesting or useless.

If this is accurate, then the price should be at least $1000 within 150 days from now.


If the trend is followed like it was previously, then yes - in fact, I might expect that price even before the end of January.  But in general, I would expect at least some price rise between now and March (at least above the recent spike of ~$US500).
full member
Activity: 280
Merit: 100
December 02, 2015, 11:27:20 AM
#33
There was an article a while ago, probably CoinDesk but I can't find it at the moment. Basically the study concluded that Bitcoin never sleeps. Overall trading volume doesn't correlate with open/close times in any particular timezones. If volume doesn't change with the time of day I don't think the price will either.
sr. member
Activity: 418
Merit: 252
Proud Canuck
December 02, 2015, 11:18:29 AM
#32
Technical analysis on Bitcoin is like technical analysis on penny stocks - worthless as the price can easily be manipulated by a single or a small group of investors, is very subject to news events, and the market is too small and immature.


Well, yes - but, the market is larger and more mature now than it has ever been, and the analysis done on it so far is based on the history of that manipulated market.  So, I would argue that if a model has applied to this point, it should be able to apply in future.  That is basically what I was getting at in the OP; I think what we are seeing are the elements of human nature being applied to a market space.  The tendencies toward greed, fear, manipulation, profit taking, etc., are what has driven the shape of the price graphs up to this point in time.  And that, together with it being such as small market, is why, for example, each time there is a dramatic price rise we see a sudden fall back to a midpoint and subsequent instability... people are taking profits, becoming scared (in some cases), and jumping on opportunities (in others).  It makes for dramatic, but very definite and noticeable, changes in price.
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1030
December 02, 2015, 04:13:17 AM
#31
Technical analysis on Bitcoin is like technical analysis on penny stocks - worthless as the price can easily be manipulated by a single or a small group of investors, is very subject to news events, and the market is too small and immature.

hero member
Activity: 900
Merit: 1014
advocate of a cryptographic attack on the globe
December 02, 2015, 02:46:31 AM
#30
Agreed, I have this topic watched.  I guess I just feel numb from being in bitcoin for so long, one can only take so many roller coaster rides.  I await good news. hehe
Haha, but I love that feeling. It is cool to not care about huge price fluctuations. Although euphoria of the early days was very pleasurable there is something calming about being ready to expect the unexpected. Then again maybe I am just numb too; as a HODL'r they are just numbers on a screen at the moment...
legendary
Activity: 3892
Merit: 4331
December 01, 2015, 11:59:29 PM
#29
interesting analysis.

To me, the price of bitcoin is an enigma in itself.
It's like lambda-infinitesimally (well, maybe not THAT infinitesimal) small in comparison with the capital markets, but NOT ZERO.
Why it is not zero, and if not zero, why not substantially higher?

GOOGL alone moved three bitcoin's cap worth just today and the move was "just" 2.74% of GOOGL-a small portion of the market.
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1000
I owe my soul to the Bitcoin code...
December 01, 2015, 10:27:39 PM
#28
Agreed, I have this topic watched.  I guess I just feel numb from being in bitcoin for so long, one can only take so many roller coaster rides.  I await good news. hehe
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
21 million. I want them all.
December 01, 2015, 06:30:44 PM
#27
There is not too much to discuss for about 300 days, then it will be very interesting or useless.

If this is accurate, then the price should be at least $1000 within 150 days from now.

uki
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
cryptojunk bag holder
December 01, 2015, 12:19:56 PM
#26
There is not too much to discuss for about 300 days, then it will be very interesting or useless.

Sadly, this is probably true. Sad  However, by March 2016 (end of Phase 1) I'll have a better idea of how the cycle is shaping up compared to the previous ones.  And I'll put up updated charts periodically, just for info.
Well, yes this is probably a long-term topic. But I will be very interesting how it progresses and already added it to my tracked threads.
Cycle predictions if spotted correctly can be very accurate, but as always there comes a question whether we have just one main cycle or several superimposing cycles so let's see how this unfolds. Closer to the halving event, we will probably see much more and we can draw first conclusions on the accuracy.
sr. member
Activity: 418
Merit: 252
Proud Canuck
November 30, 2015, 11:01:41 PM
#25
There is not too much to discuss for about 300 days, then it will be very interesting or useless.

Sadly, this is probably true. Sad  However, by March 2016 (end of Phase 1) I'll have a better idea of how the cycle is shaping up compared to the previous ones.  And I'll put up updated charts periodically, just for info.
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1000
I owe my soul to the Bitcoin code...
November 30, 2015, 10:00:52 PM
#24
There is not too much to discuss for about 300 days, then it will be very interesting or useless.
hero member
Activity: 1106
Merit: 521
November 30, 2015, 06:45:56 PM
#23
interesting, so should i buy or sell......lol Roll Eyes
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 503
November 30, 2015, 06:41:42 PM
#22
uki
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
cryptojunk bag holder
November 30, 2015, 06:37:34 PM
#21
I noticed something similar, although I don't put too much weight in the initial value of the first cycle; it was so early, before the first major public exposure and subsequent runup to $32.  I definitely agree that the cycles so far have tended to decrease in the amount of gain, and I am thinking the third would also be a somewhat smaller increase than the last. My personal feeling is that we would look for a peak price somewhere between 10x and 100x the starting price, or around $2300-$23,000.  Note that the peak doesn't last though, and tends to drop back to about the midpoint between the start of the runup and the peak, so that would mean a stable price more like $1500-$15,000.  On or about October, 2017.
Sure, the initial value of Bitcoin in the starting cycle may be a bit blurry, which makes it difficult to get the precise results for the max. peak and the stable value there.
But I believe the figures we just named are about right. Second cycle, is a clear cut. I pretty much agree with that observation regarding the third cycle, tending though to be more conservative in my predictions, i.e., closer to the lower bounds of the ranges you had just given. That is mainly caused by two things: speed of adoption of the new technology and the fact that it is much easier to turn 1 cent into $1 than the $100 into a $10k, although both are a 100-fold increase.

sr. member
Activity: 418
Merit: 252
Proud Canuck
November 29, 2015, 11:02:54 PM
#20
hacknoid, thanks for an interesting topic.

You're welcome!  Smiley

Quote
I am not a big fan of cycles in TA, but there is one thing that actually is very interesting in your chart. If you look at the ratio between the max and min price in each cycle, you will observe very interesting story, namely, for the first cycle (market introduction) we made more than 1000-fold increase ($0.01 to $30) in price, for the second cycle (initial adoption) we made about 100-fold increase ($10 to $1200). That leads me to a very interesting conclusion, which actually matches my expectations, in the third cycle (I would call it broad adoption) the price will go up ten(teens)-fold maximum. That would mean $2-3k as the realistic price target for the next 900 days.

I noticed something similar, although I don't put too much weight in the initial value of the first cycle; it was so early, before the first major public exposure and subsequent runup to $32.  I definitely agree that the cycles so far have tended to decrease in the amount of gain, and I am thinking the third would also be a somewhat smaller increase than the last. My personal feeling is that we would look for a peak price somewhere between 10x and 100x the starting price, or around $2300-$23,000.  Note that the peak doesn't last though, and tends to drop back to about the midpoint between the start of the runup and the peak, so that would mean a stable price more like $1500-$15,000.  On or about October, 2017.
legendary
Activity: 1862
Merit: 1004
November 29, 2015, 01:41:28 PM
#19
The price cannot be predicted. Only the major adoption news of bitcoin will increase the price. Nothing else.

But you gotta admit that these bitcoin price graphs looks amazingly similar. I know it proves nothing certain as we have not enough repetitive cycles to study, but still.
Pure coincidence?
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