★★★ Bitcoin Video Casino ★★★ - ||| Over 500 BTC in Progressive Jackpots! ||| - page 85.

dooglus

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Quote from: byronbb on January 10, 2013, 01:46:25 AM

I noticed there are other games on the site besides JOB9/6 like Deuces Wild Tens or Better etc. From what I can discern the JOB9/6 is still the best payout. AMIRITE?

There are 6 games. Here are the expected returns of each, taken from pages linked from http://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/ :

In the order listed on site:

99.5439% jacks or better
99.1388% tens or better
99.1660% bonus poker
99.1065% double bonus
98.9808% double double bonus
99.4179% deuces wild

Sorted by expected return:

99.5439% jacks or better
99.4179% deuces wild
99.1660% bonus poker
99.1388% tens or better
99.1065% double bonus
98.9808% double double bonus

In short, you were rite.

dooglus

legendary

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Quote from: darkmule on January 10, 2013, 01:39:33 PM

Sorry if I missed this. When the bet size is .005, does the single bet qualify for the progressive, or only the 5 bet, which would be a .025 bet?

If not, then it would be far preferable to do "max bet" on the .001 bet than a single bet with .005, and it would be pointless to do any betting from the .05-.2 range.

The paytable clearly shows that you only get the jackpot if you play 5 credits at a time. So you're right that it never makes sense to play a single 0.005 credit when you always have a better expectation from playing 5 0.001 credits.

It's hard to make the case that it's "pointless" to bet 2 0.005 chips per spin. The expected return isn't much different either way, but the variance is higher with higher stakes. In most cases the expected return is slightly negative either way, and so arguably it's all "pointless".

darkmule

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Sorry if I missed this. When the bet size is .005, does the single bet qualify for the progressive, or only the 5 bet, which would be a .025 bet?

If not, then it would be far preferable to do "max bet" on the .001 bet than a single bet with .005, and it would be pointless to do any betting from the .05-.2 range.

Micon

legendary

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FPV Drone Pilot

Quote from: dooglus on January 09, 2013, 09:16:48 PM

Quote from: byronbb on January 09, 2013, 08:46:16 PM

I see there is a progressive for the RF now for 5 coin bets. At 4888 payout for the RF the game becomes 100% payout.

Only if you modify your playing strategy optimally, taking the size of the jackpot into account.

If you only know how to play optimally for a 4000 jackpot and always play that way then the pot has to reach 4921 before the game is expected to pay out 100%.

And if you're using the auto mode then it probably has to be even higher than that, since auto mode doesn't even play optimally when the pot is 4000.

1) I'll get my hard core video poker associates to take a look at this and tell me:
1a) when it's +EV to play for the progressive jackpot

and

1b) if auto-play is making the right holds and which ones, if any, are wrong. I'm pretty sure I can find some differences between the holds I saw it make and wizard of odds strategy for 9/6 jacks or better.

will run some trials in a moment and try to find an example

🏰 TradeFortress 🏰

vip

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Quote from: IveBeenBit on January 10, 2013, 12:49:28 AM

Quote from: giantdragon on January 09, 2013, 11:23:43 PM

I have heard that some Vegas casinos offer video poker payouts even higher than 100% in assumption that most players will not use optimal strategy. This is true for humans, but I don't think for the bots also Wink

They also probably assume that after hours of staring glassy-eyed at the screen and your fourth free martini, you'll hit the wrong buttons once or twice in that span of time.

Still with progressive jackpots you can get >100%EV

byronbb

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HODL OR DIE

Quote from: giantdragon on January 09, 2013, 11:23:43 PM

I have heard that some Vegas casinos offer video poker payouts even higher than 100% in assumption that most players will not use optimal strategy. This is true for humans, but I don't think for the bots also Wink

I think these are very rare nowadays.

I noticed there are other games on the site besides JOB9/6 like Deuces Wild Tens or Better etc. From what I can discern the JOB9/6 is still the best payout. AMIRITE?

IveBeenBit

sr. member

Activity: 449

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Quote from: giantdragon on January 09, 2013, 11:23:43 PM

I have heard that some Vegas casinos offer video poker payouts even higher than 100% in assumption that most players will not use optimal strategy. This is true for humans, but I don't think for the bots also Wink

They also probably assume that after hours of staring glassy-eyed at the screen and your fourth free martini, you'll hit the wrong buttons once or twice in that span of time.

giantdragon

legendary

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I have heard that some Vegas casinos offer video poker payouts even higher than 100% in assumption that most players will not use optimal strategy. This is true for humans, but I don't think for the bots also Wink

byronbb

legendary

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Merit: 1000

HODL OR DIE

Quote from: dooglus on January 09, 2013, 09:16:48 PM

Quote from: byronbb on January 09, 2013, 08:46:16 PM

I see there is a progressive for the RF now for 5 coin bets. At 4888 payout for the RF the game becomes 100% payout.

Only if you modify your playing strategy optimally, taking the size of the jackpot into account.

If you only know how to play optimally for a 4000 jackpot and always play that way then the pot has to reach 4921 before the game is expected to pay out 100%.

And if you're using the auto mode then it probably has to be even higher than that, since auto mode doesn't even play optimally when the pot is 4000.

Interesting. Hopefully we see the RF go well past 5000 for some serious attention to the site.

dooglus

legendary

Activity: 2940

Merit: 1333

Quote from: byronbb on January 09, 2013, 08:46:16 PM

I see there is a progressive for the RF now for 5 coin bets. At 4888 payout for the RF the game becomes 100% payout.

Only if you modify your playing strategy optimally, taking the size of the jackpot into account.

If you only know how to play optimally for a 4000 jackpot and always play that way then the pot has to reach 4921 before the game is expected to pay out 100%.

And if you're using the auto mode then it probably has to be even higher than that, since auto mode doesn't even play optimally when the pot is 4000.

byronbb

legendary

Activity: 1414

Merit: 1000

HODL OR DIE

I see there is a progressive for the RF now for 5 coin bets. At 4888 payout for the RF the game becomes 100% payout.

dooglus

legendary

Activity: 2940

Merit: 1333

Quote from: darkmule on January 09, 2013, 02:45:21 PM

Off by being non-optimal, or off by not being the Wizard of Odds' strategy? The Wizard's strategy is only very slightly non-optimal.

"dial it in so it plays real 99.xx% payback"

All the wizardofodds strategies achieve 99.xx% payback, so I guess he's not complaining that it's using the wrong one.

darkmule

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Quote from: Micon on January 09, 2013, 08:09:29 AM

pretty sure the hold strategy is off by a bunch in auto-play.

I would bet on it

Off by being non-optimal, or off by not being the Wizard of Odds' strategy? The Wizard's strategy is only very slightly non-optimal.

dooglus

legendary

Activity: 2940

Merit: 1333

Quote from: Micon on January 09, 2013, 08:09:29 AM

pretty sure the hold strategy is off by a bunch in auto-play.

I would bet on it

Do you have any particular examples of where the strategy is off?

I reported an issue a while ago where the auto-hold was incorrectly holding A234:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1433152

It was fixed about 5 hours later:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1433566

If you can pinpoint particular hands which the auto-hold strategy is wrong for it will be much easier to fix.

Micon

legendary

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FPV Drone Pilot

pretty sure the hold strategy is off by a bunch in auto-play.

I would bet on it

that being said, if you could (and I know you will) dial it in so it plays real 99.xx% payback video poker on a 9-6 machine that you can auto-play, that's awesome.

so much so I did a video about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n73kg0NhJ3U

10 play autoplay dbl-dbl bonus progressive 4 of a kinds on up 1x

BitcoinVideoPoker

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Quote from: byronbb on January 08, 2013, 03:55:12 AM

Wow very nice site. I took you for a little bit after hitting quads. Need investors? Grin

~~I have seen mention of a progressive but where is this displayed?~~ What are your long term goals for max limit?

Thanks, and good job:)

We've talked about investors before, but so far we've made no decisions on that front.

Long term betting limit? I don't know. It'd be pretty cool to have 1 BTC games wouldn't it?

byronbb

legendary

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HODL OR DIE

Wow very nice site. I took you for a little bit after hitting quads. Need investors? Grin

~~I have seen mention of a progressive but where is this displayed?~~ What are your long term goals for max limit?

BitcoinVideoPoker

hero member

Activity: 804

Merit: 500

Quote from: dooglus on January 07, 2013, 11:45:46 PM

Quote from: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on January 07, 2013, 11:23:19 PM

Do you mind sharing how the auto function works? Does it play perfect plays or was it crippled?

He already did:

Quote from: BitcoinVideoPoker on January 03, 2013, 10:45:36 PM

Quote from: dooglus on January 03, 2013, 05:31:00 PM

What's going on here? I was using the auto play feature, got dealt Ah 3d Tc 4h 2d and it auto-held and played the off-suit A234.

[...] I was already following that simple strategy you recommended [...]

The simple strategy I recommended was http://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/strategy/jacks-or-better/9-6/simple/

Edit: so it isn't perfect, but it's pretty good. It gets a 99.46% payout, whereas it's possible to get 99.54% if you play optimally. Also, the size of the jackpot should affect your strategy, but the 'simple strategy' doesn't take that into account. Finally, the 'simple strategy' assumes the royal flush payout is 800 times the bet, which isn't the case unless you play 5 chips at once.

That's correct, we use the strategy for choosing what to hold based on the information here:

http://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/strategy/jacks-or-better/9-6/simple/

The code for the decision process is here:

https://bitcoinvideopoker.com/static/poker.js

Search for the 'recommend_hold' method.

You are more than welcome to write a better autoplay bot

We'll be formalizing the service calls in the future which should make developing better autoplayers easier:)

dooglus

legendary

Activity: 2940

Merit: 1333

Quote from: 🏰 TradeFortress 🏰 on January 07, 2013, 11:23:19 PM

Do you mind sharing how the auto function works? Does it play perfect plays or was it crippled?

He already did:

Quote from: BitcoinVideoPoker on January 03, 2013, 10:45:36 PM

Quote from: dooglus on January 03, 2013, 05:31:00 PM

What's going on here? I was using the auto play feature, got dealt Ah 3d Tc 4h 2d and it auto-held and played the off-suit A234.

[...] I was already following that simple strategy you recommended [...]

The simple strategy I recommended was http://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/strategy/jacks-or-better/9-6/simple/

Edit: so it isn't perfect, but it's pretty good. It gets a 99.46% payout, whereas it's possible to get 99.54% if you play optimally. Also, the size of the jackpot should affect your strategy, but the 'simple strategy' doesn't take that into account. Finally, the 'simple strategy' assumes the royal flush payout is 800 times the bet, which isn't the case unless you play 5 chips at once.

🏰 TradeFortress 🏰

vip

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Quote from: BitcoinVideoPoker on January 07, 2013, 11:32:20 AM

Quote from: giantdragon on January 06, 2013, 09:01:32 PM

You should consider opening API for the bots.

Hey! Good thing you mention this. We DO have plans to open up the platform for people to write their own playing bots.

That being said...there's nothing preventing anyone from issuing the service calls that the javascript frontend uses. We certainly have no objections to anyone using bots to play our game.

So, since we plan on doing some refactoring and improvements to the API in the future, we're going to hold off on describing all the APIs formally, since we may be changing them....but do look for it:)

BTW, peerbet is pretty cool. Nice job. Consider making it not require registration:)

Do you mind sharing how the auto function works? Does it play perfect plays or was it crippled?

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