Monero is the best coin for those who love to have transactions that are fully anonymous and that can't be tracked by anyone. I would possibly go with Monero without any hesitation because the coin is among the best coins that we have in the crypto market and it offers the best privacy which's way better then Bitcoin and the fees that Monero offer are low as compare to Bitcoin fees.
I would say that I like to use both Bitcoin and Monero as both of them are the best crypto-currencies out there, I know that no altcoin can compete Bitcoin as it's the king of the crypto world but I would still say that the features Monero offers are unique and anyone who knows about that coin would most probably favor it.
I also believe that Monero is a good alternative during the network congestion times as the fees of the transactions aren't high and the Monero transactions are quite fast. If I have to choose Bitcoin vs Monero then I would go with both of them, surely I would prefer Bitcoin more but I won't ignore Monero as well because that coin is truly an awesome one.
Topic: Bitcoin Vs Monero - Privacy as the world becomes more dystopian - page 5. (Read 2044 times)
November 27, 2023, 08:28:23 PM
November 27, 2023, 07:11:36 PM
That's what govts are trying to do. It's possible they're concerns are legit but if they're going to use laws to pressure exchanges or ppl to surrender user info it's worrying what they're going to do with it. If ppl want to hide bitcoin trades they're using a mixer but if they want to hide trades using Monero they're using swaps to XMR but swapping back to BTC. It isn't free.
Paying more fees for greater privacy isn't a bad deal in a big bro society.
Paying more fees for greater privacy isn't a bad deal in a big bro society.
For several governments and agencies to be against mixers they bring some level of privacy to Bitcoin, it is an indication that they will see privacy coins as a big threat to their power.
They are not just against mixer but they are against any technology that will give us privacy and they will do whatever it takes to make sure that they deprive us from our privacy. We can see how they have bought some mining pool over to be on their side so that they can control which transaction should be added to the mining pool or not. And as humans due to greed, they forgot that it is only us that can make bitcoin more private by protecting bitcoin from the government. Monero has a better privacy than bitcoin because nobody cares about it, but everyone is after bitcoin for their own selfish reason.
November 27, 2023, 06:37:19 PM
There are a lot of reasons why people are opting for the more privacy part knowing that they don't want anything to be governed or any information leaked about themselves. I think a dystopia is kind of an overreaction toward what is happening because it's still not at that level where you are dehumanized or something. Fearful, maybe, but that might be because of what you are doing with it as well that's why some people are frightened of it because of their use case or application.
Node count has passed BTC and mining hash rate is growing rapidly as you don't need an Asics, just your PC.
Can you explain this further OP? I want to know what you mean by this. 
November 27, 2023, 06:30:52 PM
Probably it's because that with government intervention on Bitcoin, this gives us the thought that 'yeah, they're supporting Bitcoin' but if we clear that path on the actuality is you're right. Many of us seems to unnotice what's actually happening on Bitcoin and they've got more control on it and can easily done than Monero. I just hope that purpose of Bitcoin won't be defeated and someday, we don't have to rely on these cexes and governments. But the truth is, this is inevitable for it as part of "adoption".
I don't consider that they, governments want and are doing it because they are supporting Bitcoin. They are doing this because:They can not stop Bitcoin.
They can not stop their citizens to access a big innovation in human history.
So they have to create as many barriers as possible to reduce the adoption growth of Bitcoin and want to do more regulations to control financial flows in society. They are doing this to help central banks have more tools to trace their citizen financial flow and gain tax for their government.
Are they doing this for benefit of citizens? I see no.
They don't have to hide in shadows but you know these times, it's better to remain unknown and lowkey with all of the crimes happening related to Bitcoin robberies and violence that were reported on the media.
I have put apostrophe on it and that's what I am highlighting that there's a meaning about the adoption and of course the thought about making us think that they're supporting it. In every support, there's always the agenda that they can't deny like those that you've mentioned.
November 27, 2023, 03:54:33 PM
You are lying, Wasabi Wallet is completely non custodial, it cannot censor inputs. Your keys, your coins.
Hey, you forgot to mention that Wasabi is also open-source. They are not going to be happy with you if you make such oversights. In the future, whenever someone mentions anything negative about Wasabi, your job is to hit them with the we are open-source and baaam, that will shut them up. If they are advertising a mixer, you also call them a thief to really get your point across. o_e_l_e_o wasn't lying. Your wallet's main coordinator uses the services of a blockchain analysis company to check the history of the coins people want to coinjoin. If the blockchain analysis company isn't happy with its secret findings, it tells you to prevent the person to register those UTXOs for a coinjoin. Therefore, your main coordinator supports a made-up nonsense called taint and censorship.
Now it's the perfect time to tell the community that they should run their own coordinators. I haven't heard that in like a week. But that's not the point. The point isn't that everyone can run their own coordinator. The point is that you, a so-called privacy service, directly or indirectly supports censorship and considers certain coins dirty because someone tells you to do it.
No, that is the point: ANYONE can run their own coordinator since the Wasabi software is entirely open source.
November 27, 2023, 11:57:18 AM
You are lying, Wasabi Wallet is completely non custodial, it cannot censor inputs. Your keys, your coins.
Hey, you forgot to mention that Wasabi is also open-source. They are not going to be happy with you if you make such oversights. In the future, whenever someone mentions anything negative about Wasabi, your job is to hit them with the we are open-source and baaam, that will shut them up. If they are advertising a mixer, you also call them a thief to really get your point across. o_e_l_e_o wasn't lying. Your wallet's main coordinator uses the services of a blockchain analysis company to check the history of the coins people want to coinjoin. If the blockchain analysis company isn't happy with its secret findings, it tells you to prevent the person to register those UTXOs for a coinjoin. Therefore, your main coordinator supports a made-up nonsense called taint and censorship.
Now it's the perfect time to tell the community that they should run their own coordinators. I haven't heard that in like a week. But that's not the point. The point isn't that everyone can run their own coordinator. The point is that you, a so-called privacy service, directly or indirectly supports censorship and considers certain coins dirty because someone tells you to do it.
November 27, 2023, 09:11:24 AM
You can also run your own Robosats instance, and Robosats is developing processes to make it easier for these instances to talk to each other: https://github.com/RoboSats/robosats/blob/main/federation.md
In case someone runs an Umbrel node, Robosats is built-in and is super easy to use! I have used it really a lot.
Of course Robosats can be installed from scratch, but I needed to clarify how easy it is to run it on an Umbrel node.
November 27, 2023, 07:51:57 AM
We are seeing wallets like Wasabi censoring inputs the government tells them to.
You are lying, Wasabi Wallet is completely non custodial, it cannot censor inputs. Your keys, your coins.
November 27, 2023, 07:15:18 AM
They can not stop Bitcoin.
Except it seems that they can. Make 51% of the hashrate comply with their OFAC sanctions as F2Pool have done, and bitcoin is firmly under their control. At that point they can censor any transaction they choose.An exception to this is ThorChain which utilizes liquidity pools of coins on different blockchains to perform swaps. The fees are paid to the liquidity providers rather than a company.
Bisq is completely peer to peer in the same way that bitcoin is - you run the software locally and connect directly to other peers (over Tor). You can also run your own Robosats instance, and Robosats is developing processes to make it easier for these instances to talk to each other: https://github.com/RoboSats/robosats/blob/main/federation.md 
November 27, 2023, 02:13:19 AM
I'm not sure there's any "decentralized" exchange for XMR.
What about AgoraDesk? It supports Monero but I am not sure of it's decentralized nature. They have an arbitration feature but I don't know much about it. LocalMonero is basically the same thing with a different name. Isn't UnstoppableSwap a decentralized solution for Monero?
Also, Robosats supports Monero. I think it's still centralized, but there was a proposal to make it decentralized. No idea how far they have come with that. If I remember correctly, there was talk about the decentralized solution becoming custodial during trades, so that's not optimal.
These are all companies that charge fees. If their server were to go down, there'd be no way to utilize them. This is the same reason I don't consider something like Uniswap to be a DEX... everyone is dependent on a single server, website, or single point of failure, so they are not decentralized.
An exception to this is ThorChain which utilizes liquidity pools of coins on different blockchains to perform swaps. The fees are paid to the liquidity providers rather than a company.
November 26, 2023, 08:36:50 PM
Probably it's because that with government intervention on Bitcoin, this gives us the thought that 'yeah, they're supporting Bitcoin' but if we clear that path on the actuality is you're right. Many of us seems to unnotice what's actually happening on Bitcoin and they've got more control on it and can easily done than Monero. I just hope that purpose of Bitcoin won't be defeated and someday, we don't have to rely on these cexes and governments. But the truth is, this is inevitable for it as part of "adoption".
I don't consider that they, governments want and are doing it because they are supporting Bitcoin. They are doing this because:They can not stop Bitcoin.
They can not stop their citizens to access a big innovation in human history.
So they have to create as many barriers as possible to reduce the adoption growth of Bitcoin and want to do more regulations to control financial flows in society. They are doing this to help central banks have more tools to trace their citizen financial flow and gain tax for their government.
Are they doing this for benefit of citizens? I see no.
November 26, 2023, 07:12:02 PM
But when you've said about it gaining lots of adoptions from exchanges, you have to consider the news of it being delisted mostly in popular exchanges and I think in some other global exchanges as well.
As far as I see it, being delisted from KYCed centralized exchanges is a good thing - it proves that Monero works, the government are unable to trace it or deanonymize it like they can do with every other coin, so instead they are resorting to delisting it. Delisting shows that it works. And as I said before, no one who actually uses Monero cares about this since they aren't using KYCed exchanges in the first place.But it is understandable that it's still needed to stay in some major exchanges for its liquidity and volume. IMO, we will not see it as a stand alone crypto like mostly used only for P2P trades because of these cexes that won't delist it.
There's a big issue on it and as we can see, it's being cracked by the governments.
So is bitcoin. We are seeing mining pools like F2Pool censoring transactions the government tells them to. We are seeing wallets like Wasabi censoring inputs the government tells them to. We are seeing regulations which will ban self custody and mean bitcoin can only be bought, stored, and sold on fully KYCed centralized exchanges. And yet no one seems to care that bitcoin is marching towards a government permissioned network. Bitcoin is being cracked down on by governments even more strongly than Monero is. The difference is they can't do any of these things with Monero, so they are just forcing it to be delisted instead. November 26, 2023, 07:00:14 PM
To me it seems Monero is something that should not be ignored.
Yes me too, Monero is one of the coins besides BTC which has good privacy and scalability to invest. Monero also has good movement prices from 2018, and 2021 and maybe next 2024 will pass a new ATH ($475). Monero also has the same trend as BTC, so that situation, many people focus on buying Monero when BTC comes to halving near. But, I still don't know what is good software wallet for keeping Monero for a long time?. I just know that BTC has electrum, but I still don't know about Monero?, Because I heard that someone just lost his Monero on wallet CSS (community Crowdfunding System).By the way, when we talk about Monero (Altcoin), is this thread on the right board?
November 26, 2023, 04:49:32 PM
If you receive XMR from a KYC exchange, they don't know who sent it to you, only that you received XMR. If you send XMR from a KYC exchange, they will know the address you are sending it to & the amount, but nothing beyond that. They really have no idea what you are using it for unless they ask you and you tell them.
Traders wouldn't want their exchanges to know how much XMR they've received & sent or their dates. They'd prefer to keep their deals private but if a privacy coin doesn't give it they do it outside the centralised exchange. If ppl want privacy I'd ask them to use any DEX.I'm not sure there's any "decentralized" exchange for XMR. Maybe AtomicSwap supports it but I'm not sure, and they've had troubles recently. ThorSwap doesn't support it at all. There are only KYC exchanges, non-KYC exchanges, and swapping services (a mixture of KYC and non-KYC).
Exch.cxBisq
UnstoppableSwap
Exch.cx XMR rates are the highest I've found. UnstoppableSwap's the lowest.
November 26, 2023, 05:10:12 AM
I'm not sure there's any "decentralized" exchange for XMR.
What about AgoraDesk? It supports Monero but I am not sure of it's decentralized nature. They have an arbitration feature but I don't know much about it. LocalMonero is basically the same thing with a different name. Isn't UnstoppableSwap a decentralized solution for Monero?
Also, Robosats supports Monero. I think it's still centralized, but there was a proposal to make it decentralized. No idea how far they have come with that. If I remember correctly, there was talk about the decentralized solution becoming custodial during trades, so that's not optimal.
November 26, 2023, 04:17:12 AM
I'm not sure there's any "decentralized" exchange for XMR.
Bisq is the best option.But when you've said about it gaining lots of adoptions from exchanges, you have to consider the news of it being delisted mostly in popular exchanges and I think in some other global exchanges as well.
As far as I see it, being delisted from KYCed centralized exchanges is a good thing - it proves that Monero works, the government are unable to trace it or deanonymize it like they can do with every other coin, so instead they are resorting to delisting it. Delisting shows that it works. And as I said before, no one who actually uses Monero cares about this since they aren't using KYCed exchanges in the first place.There's a big issue on it and as we can see, it's being cracked by the governments.
So is bitcoin. We are seeing mining pools like F2Pool censoring transactions the government tells them to. We are seeing wallets like Wasabi censoring inputs the government tells them to. We are seeing regulations which will ban self custody and mean bitcoin can only be bought, stored, and sold on fully KYCed centralized exchanges. And yet no one seems to care that bitcoin is marching towards a government permissioned network. Bitcoin is being cracked down on by governments even more strongly than Monero is. The difference is they can't do any of these things with Monero, so they are just forcing it to be delisted instead. 
November 25, 2023, 06:19:00 PM
Monero's definitely a worthy contender, but that doesn't mean you could just dismiss bitcoin just cause it's not "decentralized enough for you"
Plus it's not even true that Monero's being adopted in most crypto exchanges, just a couple of months ago as stated beforehand by @jossiel and as I will reiterate, massive exchanges like binance and huobi are dropping their Monero listings over concerns about it being exploited for its overtly anonymous features, and also because there's not much use case behind monero besides the fact that it's secure, which most cryptocurrencies are in the first place. Is Monero a good coin? Yes. Is it worth dismissing the impact and longevity of bitcoin over? Probably not. You can't put a price on price security especially in an industry that's as volatile as the crypto world.
Plus it's not even true that Monero's being adopted in most crypto exchanges, just a couple of months ago as stated beforehand by @jossiel and as I will reiterate, massive exchanges like binance and huobi are dropping their Monero listings over concerns about it being exploited for its overtly anonymous features, and also because there's not much use case behind monero besides the fact that it's secure, which most cryptocurrencies are in the first place. Is Monero a good coin? Yes. Is it worth dismissing the impact and longevity of bitcoin over? Probably not. You can't put a price on price security especially in an industry that's as volatile as the crypto world.
November 25, 2023, 05:18:13 PM
I like Monero and there is no doubt if the topic to be discussed is about privacy, it's the most recommended cryptocurrency to use.
But when you've said about it gaining lots of adoptions from exchanges, you have to consider the news of it being delisted mostly in popular exchanges and I think in some other global exchanges as well.
There's a big issue on it and as we can see, it's being cracked by the governments.
But when you've said about it gaining lots of adoptions from exchanges, you have to consider the news of it being delisted mostly in popular exchanges and I think in some other global exchanges as well.
- Binance to Delist Monero, Zcash in 4 European Countries
- CoinSpot will be delisting Monero (XMR), Bytecoin (BCN) & ZCoin (XZC)
- Huobi to delist Monero and other privacy coins, citing regulatory pressures
There's a big issue on it and as we can see, it's being cracked by the governments.
November 25, 2023, 03:59:06 PM
The reason why I believe privacy is #1 concern is because the direction in which the globalists are taking the world is complete control of everything. The want to control every living thing. Sounds like a conspiracy theory until you realize they say it in plain sight.
The CBDC (or whatever they chose to call it) is where everything changes. The best way to see the future they're planning is look at China & the social credit system. If you say the wrong thing about your government you can lose your privilege to board a train. Even this is just the tip of the iceberg compared to what they're planning.
One of the many reasons they're pushing climate change, so they can tie in multiple system of control. For instance, you've reached your total carbon credit for the month and cannot eat anymore beef, because cow farts are bad for the environment. So now they can freeze your money because your food intake is tracked. Yes Bitcoin is censorship resistant, however your connection the to internet is not.
All total BS to push us into total communism. The world is not what you think it is and that's why I think privacy will be very important.
Even people on this board still believe this is a silly tinfoil hat conspiracy theory ("Digital ID is a good thing, it will reduce bureaucracy" The CBDC (or whatever they chose to call it) is where everything changes. The best way to see the future they're planning is look at China & the social credit system. If you say the wrong thing about your government you can lose your privilege to board a train. Even this is just the tip of the iceberg compared to what they're planning.
One of the many reasons they're pushing climate change, so they can tie in multiple system of control. For instance, you've reached your total carbon credit for the month and cannot eat anymore beef, because cow farts are bad for the environment. So now they can freeze your money because your food intake is tracked. Yes Bitcoin is censorship resistant, however your connection the to internet is not.
All total BS to push us into total communism. The world is not what you think it is and that's why I think privacy will be very important.
) and also believe that human beings cause climate change (therefore a population reduction would be "appropriate") due to CO2 (which is plants' food). 
I say cull the useless eaters (their BTC will disappear from circulation if they don't inherit the private key to anyone), we don't need them anyway.
The jabs will do it either way... 
Regarding Monero, I think it has a real chance to replace cash, especially in notorious transactions (such as drugs, hookers and maybe even red meat, assuming it becomes illegal in the future).
But Bitcoin will still be better for savings, since Monero has eternal inflation (tail emission).
Monero for e-cash and Bitcoin for savings/digital gold sounds good enough to me.
November 25, 2023, 03:47:26 PM
If ppl prefer to use Bitcoin because it's decentralised why can't it be updated in future to obfuscate spends. It's still going to be decentralised.
There's mixing. It's possible to create a second layer, like LN, than automatically mixes coins. Bitcoin can be improved when it comes to privacy, but why should it be? I own some old bitcoin that was bought long ago on a now defunct exchange. Nobody can subpoena that exchange as it shut down years ago and the owner was found dead years later. If I paid you for something illegal, nobody would be able to find my name, or even the person who bought bitcoin from me. Bitcoin is as private as we want it to be. If you use a centralized exchange that has all your private data, with pictures, you have no privacy, but some people don't care.
Jump to: