Bitcoin vs Taxes - page 13. | Bitcointalksearch.org

GreenBits

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Quote from: jpoker272727 on July 19, 2017, 10:23:56 AM

Quote from: megynacuna on July 17, 2017, 09:41:22 PM

Quote from: iram1011 on July 17, 2017, 09:15:17 PM

Most of countries consider Bitcoin as an asset or intangible property ( as by IRS ). Bitcoin's treatment as an asset makes the tax implication clear. However, taxation on bitcoins and its reporting is not as simple as it seems. For starters, it is difficult to determine the fair value of the bitcoin on purchase and sale transactions. Frequent traders and investors could use "first in, first out" (FIFO) or "last in, first out" (LIFO) accounting techniques to reduce tax obligations.

Well it's complicated but I think the best way to include taxes on Bitcoin transactions would be to add them up to the miner fees and charge them per each transaction that moves over the blockchain but I don't know how practical this could be since we are all not living in the same country and our laws regarding taxes might vary.

Miner fees are much better than taxes. As you know government taxes are more than miner fees. So it is better that bitcoin is taking fees on transactions etc by miners. I would prefer that miner’s fees are much better than taxes. Taxes would decrease the demand of bitcoin in a market. If there is no demand how bitcoin will run?

Well bitcoin kinda is already taxed, but only for US citizens, and only after you convert it to a Fiat currency. So we kinda have to deal with the high fee situation and the capital gains tax situation, but I will concede that most likely, virtually no one is paying proper bitcoin tax. I use the Shift card that Coinbase offers; I'm subject to sales tax on my bitcoin purchases, which is interesting.

jpoker272727

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Quote from: megynacuna on July 17, 2017, 09:41:22 PM

Quote from: iram1011 on July 17, 2017, 09:15:17 PM

Most of countries consider Bitcoin as an asset or intangible property ( as by IRS ). Bitcoin's treatment as an asset makes the tax implication clear. However, taxation on bitcoins and its reporting is not as simple as it seems. For starters, it is difficult to determine the fair value of the bitcoin on purchase and sale transactions. Frequent traders and investors could use "first in, first out" (FIFO) or "last in, first out" (LIFO) accounting techniques to reduce tax obligations.

Well it's complicated but I think the best way to include taxes on Bitcoin transactions would be to add them up to the miner fees and charge them per each transaction that moves over the blockchain but I don't know how practical this could be since we are all not living in the same country and our laws regarding taxes might vary.

Miner fees are much better than taxes. As you know government taxes are more than miner fees. So it is better that bitcoin is taking fees on transactions etc by miners. I would prefer that miner’s fees are much better than taxes. Taxes would decrease the demand of bitcoin in a market. If there is no demand how bitcoin will run?

deisik

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Quote from: LuanX3 on July 18, 2017, 03:02:02 PM

Quote from: Beerwizzard on July 15, 2017, 03:08:15 AM

I've heared that in some countries people have to pay the income tax after buying fiat for their bitcoins. Anyone faced such problem? If yes then how you deal with it in your country?
At one point of view bitcoin is an instrument for investment so ppl buy it willing to get income in their currency.
At the other point it is a currency and it might be used with a purpose of saving. In this case the tax would be stupid.

I don't get why people always think that bitcoins are not taxable! Just to clarify what the governments are taxing. It is not taxing the use of bitcoins or owning it. What the governments are taxing is the income your derive from the use of bitcoins. If you buy bitcoins at $1,000 and sold it for $2,300 then that would mean that you are liable for income tax for the $1,300 profit!

That all depends on specific jurisdiction

In some countries currency exchange operations (and thus income earned through them) are not taxable. So if you bought, for example, 1,000 dollars with some local currency and in a year sold the same 1,000 dollars at a premium, you may not have to pay the income tax. In this way, if Bitcoin is legalized as a currency, the income earned with it won't be taxable in that country. Apart from that, if Bitcoin is considered as property, you may not have to pay taxes either provided you kept your Bitcoin stash for a certain period of time (say, over a year)

LuanX3

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Quote from: Beerwizzard on July 15, 2017, 03:08:15 AM

I've heared that in some countries people have to pay the income tax after buying fiat for their bitcoins. Anyone faced such problem? If yes then how you deal with it in your country?
At one point of view bitcoin is an instrument for investment so ppl buy it willing to get income in their currency.
At the other point it is a currency and it might be used with a purpose of saving. In this case the tax would be stupid.

I don't get why people always think that bitcoins are not taxable! Just to clarify what the governments are taxing. It is not taxing the use of bitcoins or owning it. What the governments are taxing is the income your derive from the use of bitcoins. If you buy bitcoins at $1,000 and sold it for $2,300 then that would mean that you are liable for income tax for the $1,300 profit!

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Quote from: iqlimasyadiqa on July 17, 2017, 06:04:40 PM

Quote from: Beerwizzard on July 15, 2017, 03:08:15 AM

I've heared that in some countries people have to pay the income tax after buying fiat for their bitcoins. Anyone faced such problem? If yes then how you deal with it in your country?
At one point of view bitcoin is an instrument for investment so ppl buy it willing to get income in their currency.
At the other point it is a currency and it might be used with a purpose of saving. In this case the tax would be stupid.

What tax do you mean? If the tax paid to the government of course it does not exist until now. Maybe you mean the cost of making a deposit, withdraw and exchange bitcoin. It is very different from the tax, because it is the cost of using a service on an exchange. Tax reporting to the government has never been found.

It depends on where you live. In the U.S. there has always been a capitol gains tax on bitcoin. Whatever profit you see from selling your coins is taxable. If you lose money you may also be able to claim a loss, but your profits are certainly taxable.

deisik

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Quote from: avikz on July 17, 2017, 06:45:16 PM

Quote from: Beerwizzard on July 15, 2017, 03:08:15 AM

I've heared that in some countries people have to pay the income tax after buying fiat for their bitcoins. Anyone faced such problem? If yes then how you deal with it in your country?
At one point of view bitcoin is an instrument for investment so ppl buy it willing to get income in their currency.
At the other point it is a currency and it might be used with a purpose of saving. In this case the tax would be stupid.

I believe bitcoin's legal status is not clear in majority of the countries and that creates a lot of confusion on taxing part. People are unsure about how to pay tax on bitcoin. My country is having the same status So I am disclosing my bitcoin incomes in my tax filing every year since last two years.

having said that, I only disclose what I have cashed out in fiat. So my actual bitcoin holding I am not disclosing as I am not getting any income from it. I am disclosing only the amount I have converted in to fiat. I hope I am doing the right thing

There is an old adage or wisdom

Which says that you shouldn't trouble trouble until trouble troubles you. It is your choice after all but as you say yourself you can only hope that you are doing the right thing. With Bitcoin taxes, the issue is twofold. First, it may seem to be "ideologically" or morally right (and feel good at that) to pay taxes on your income and in some countries it may well be so (though in the majority of others it is certainly not). And, second, you may in fact be making yourself more bad than good since the authorities would know that you have bitcoins, and if there is some commotion about Bitcoin usage in your country, you will be among the first to reap the fruits of it, so to speak

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Quote from: Beerwizzard on July 15, 2017, 03:08:15 AM

I've heared that in some countries people have to pay the income tax after buying fiat for their bitcoins. Anyone faced such problem? If yes then how you deal with it in your country?
At one point of view bitcoin is an instrument for investment so ppl buy it willing to get income in their currency.
At the other point it is a currency and it might be used with a purpose of saving. In this case the tax would be stupid.

Whenever you sell bitcoin for fiat currencies, like on websites like localbitcoins.com, you will have to pay a tax that the website will take away from you. Before, when buying or selling Bitcoin there wasn't a tax that was taken away from you, but now since Bitcoin has caught the eyes of some governments, they have implemented a tax on them. This makes it hard to make profit off Bitcoin, especially by doing buy low, sell high. Try sell in large quantities to avoid being taxes a lot.

hajimasan

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Quote from: Beerwizzard on July 15, 2017, 03:08:15 AM

I've heared that in some countries people have to pay the income tax after buying fiat for their bitcoins. Anyone faced such problem? If yes then how you deal with it in your country?
At one point of view bitcoin is an instrument for investment so ppl buy it willing to get income in their currency.
At the other point it is a currency and it might be used with a purpose of saving. In this case the tax would be stupid.

This is a bitter truth in the current time , earlier there was no tax needed to pay to make buy and sell of the Bitcoin but currently many countries government are making Thier eyes attention at the Bitcoin and Bitcoin users in the countries .
Here I myself facing the big problems regarding this , because due to high taxation system , the trader always sell Thier btc at very high price in comparison of current price .
And also many types of the exchange which are making buy sell Bitcoin directly are making the charge of tax fee 18% ( in my country) .
So I think this is all over the force at the life of the buyers and sellers only because traders can manage by making more charge at the customers but problems are falling at our head where at the edge we will have net no profit and no loss , I means to say that we can't make profit in small deals , we only needed in this case of bulk deals to make profit .

megynacuna

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Quote from: iram1011 on July 17, 2017, 09:15:17 PM

Most of countries consider Bitcoin as an asset or intangible property ( as by IRS ). Bitcoin's treatment as an asset makes the tax implication clear. However, taxation on bitcoins and its reporting is not as simple as it seems. For starters, it is difficult to determine the fair value of the bitcoin on purchase and sale transactions. Frequent traders and investors could use "first in, first out" (FIFO) or "last in, first out" (LIFO) accounting techniques to reduce tax obligations.

Well it's complicated but I think the best way to include taxes on Bitcoin transactions would be to add them up to the miner fees and charge them per each transaction that moves over the blockchain but I don't know how practical this could be since we are all not living in the same country and our laws regarding taxes might vary.

iram1011

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Most of countries consider Bitcoin as an asset or intangible property ( as by IRS ). Bitcoin's treatment as an asset makes the tax implication clear. However, taxation on bitcoins and its reporting is not as simple as it seems. For starters, it is difficult to determine the fair value of the bitcoin on purchase and sale transactions. Frequent traders and investors could use "first in, first out" (FIFO) or "last in, first out" (LIFO) accounting techniques to reduce tax obligations.

avikz

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Quote from: Beerwizzard on July 15, 2017, 03:08:15 AM

I've heared that in some countries people have to pay the income tax after buying fiat for their bitcoins. Anyone faced such problem? If yes then how you deal with it in your country?
At one point of view bitcoin is an instrument for investment so ppl buy it willing to get income in their currency.
At the other point it is a currency and it might be used with a purpose of saving. In this case the tax would be stupid.

I believe bitcoin's legal status is not clear in majority of the countries and that creates a lot of confusion on taxing part. People are unsure about how to pay tax on bitcoin. My country is having the same status So I am disclosing my bitcoin incomes in my tax filing every year since last two years.

having said that, I only disclose what I have cashed out in fiat. So my actual bitcoin holding I am not disclosing as I am not getting any income from it. I am disclosing only the amount I have converted in to fiat. I hope I am doing the right thing.

Harlot

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That is odd and I think it is wrong. First we must know the origin of that Bitcoin in which it came from does it come from a payment from your business? or does it come from a remittance of a friend or family member? Converting your Bitcoin to Fiat currency is not taxable by means of income tax not unless your are and exchange earning money of conversion. Other than that I think you have mistaken a different kind of tax for Bitcoin. Any tax like income tax will be voidable and reimbursable from the government.

iqlimasyadiqa

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Quote from: Beerwizzard on July 15, 2017, 03:08:15 AM

I've heared that in some countries people have to pay the income tax after buying fiat for their bitcoins. Anyone faced such problem? If yes then how you deal with it in your country?
At one point of view bitcoin is an instrument for investment so ppl buy it willing to get income in their currency.
At the other point it is a currency and it might be used with a purpose of saving. In this case the tax would be stupid.

What tax do you mean? If the tax paid to the government of course it does not exist until now. Maybe you mean the cost of making a deposit, withdraw and exchange bitcoin. It is very different from the tax, because it is the cost of using a service on an exchange. Tax reporting to the government has never been found.

nethan1btc

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Quote from: Hydrogen on July 17, 2017, 04:49:35 PM

I don't mind paying taxes. I wish I had the influence to encourage governments to spend tax revenues more efficiently and wisely.

Too many state based policies and programs revolve around blindly throwing money at problems without real analysis or facts being given.

The US healthcare issue is a prime example of this, where the majority of americans don't have full facts or details on anything.

I think it's not that mandatory and with bitcoin with taxes is a kind of crap for me, because it's an independent type of income online which people can benefit of those advantages. So if I were to think of digital currency to spike of it's price online; it should be fair enough to people to generate higher income rare which is separated form the government's control.

Hydrogen

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I don't mind paying taxes. I wish I had the influence to encourage governments to spend tax revenues more efficiently and wisely.

Too many state based policies and programs revolve around blindly throwing money at problems without real analysis or facts being given.

The US healthcare issue is a prime example of this, where the majority of americans don't have full facts or details on anything.

stompix

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Quote from: Vikingr on July 16, 2017, 06:18:38 PM

Quote from: Mometaskers on July 16, 2017, 06:22:21 AM

So far my country has not yet made any clear regulations about taxing bitcoins despite recognizing it as legal and I hope it stays that way. I mean, how would they consider bitcoins? Would they tax it like it was money in a bank account and then tax it again when you sell it for fiat?

For now the only thing I'm not satisfied with is the large spread between the exchange's buy and sell price. I suppose they also have to pay the government certain fees.

As you mentioned that it government will charge a tax on bitcoin or not. As you withdraw that money into fiat money there are a lot fees which is placed by government. So therefore we can say that it will be same as we are doing right now and pay the prices of every, and each bitcoin.

What fees? Can you give an example?

Quote from: CyberKuro on July 16, 2017, 07:23:51 PM

Not in my country, even in Japan has abolished the rule of 8% consumption tax on bitcoin transactions. But, buy bitcoin require fee for miners and most people convert bitcoin through echanges which you have to pay fee in order to withdraw fiat currency, it's a common rule. I won't say it stupid, as the rule exist to make each other could get benefits, we should pay pennies to $1-$2 for their services.

You don't have a clue what tax that was and what he is talking about.
Japan has abolished a consumption tax on buying bitcoins , treating it like euros for example.
You don;t pay consumption taxes when you buy euros for yen , do you?

But you will still pay taxes if you made profits by selling and buying bitcoins in Japan, in Us , EU and anywhere in the civilized world.

BeGoods

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Quote from: zulkarnaen on July 16, 2017, 10:00:25 AM

I think as long as you can still do bitcoin transactions and there is never a problem in the transaction, legality is certainly not very necessary. And probably still have a good chance because it is not obliged to pay income tax from bitcoin.

I think legalization is not so important if at this time you can still make transactions easily and without any hindrance, Besides with legalization of course the government will give some conditions such as paying tax for bitcoin users for their earnings in bitcoin

CyberKuro

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Quote from: Beerwizzard on July 15, 2017, 03:08:15 AM

I've heared that in some countries people have to pay the income tax after buying fiat for their bitcoins. Anyone faced such problem? If yes then how you deal with it in your country?
At one point of view bitcoin is an instrument for investment so ppl buy it willing to get income in their currency.
At the other point it is a currency and it might be used with a purpose of saving. In this case the tax would be stupid.

Not in my country, even in Japan has abolished the rule of 8% consumption tax on bitcoin transactions. But, buy bitcoin require fee for miners and most people convert bitcoin through echanges which you have to pay fee in order to withdraw fiat currency, it's a common rule. I won't say it stupid, as the rule exist to make each other could get benefits, we should pay pennies to $1-$2 for their services.

Vikingr

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Quote from: Mometaskers on July 16, 2017, 06:22:21 AM

So far my country has not yet made any clear regulations about taxing bitcoins despite recognizing it as legal and I hope it stays that way. I mean, how would they consider bitcoins? Would they tax it like it was money in a bank account and then tax it again when you sell it for fiat?

For now the only thing I'm not satisfied with is the large spread between the exchange's buy and sell price. I suppose they also have to pay the government certain fees.

As you mentioned that it government will charge a tax on bitcoin or not. As you withdraw that money into fiat money there are a lot fees which is placed by government. So therefore we can say that it will be same as we are doing right now and pay the prices of every, and each bitcoin.

zeze18

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It is appropriate that people with abundant wealth pay taxes and in accordance with income they earn from business they run, but of course the government already has a regulation that regulates income tax between the rich and poor certainly have differences regarding taxes paid .

Topic: Bitcoin vs Taxes - page 13. (Read 6965 times)