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Topic: Bitcoin will never reach $20 again - page 18. (Read 40357 times)

hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 500
August 04, 2011, 02:13:26 PM
Bitcoin is something new.  Uncle Joe understands credit cards, but he doesn't understand the difference between good money or bad money.

That lack of understanding means Bitcoin is a hard sell, although with the performance of the markets it's getting easier and easier to explain it to him.



Joe may understand credit cards, you still can't pay him with one.  Paying him with bitcoin is about the same level of difficulty as paying him with paypal, but without the transaction fees.

You can pay me with credit cards - I have a card swipe and a smartphone... Then again I'm doubting I'm a good representative for "average" Wink
hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 500
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
August 04, 2011, 02:12:07 PM
Bitcoin is something new.  Uncle Joe understands credit cards, but he doesn't understand the difference between good money or bad money.

That lack of understanding means Bitcoin is a hard sell, although with the performance of the markets it's getting easier and easier to explain it to him.



Joe may understand credit cards, you still can't pay him with one.  Paying him with bitcoin is about the same level of difficulty as paying him with paypal, but without the transaction fees.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
"Basics Of Generational Dynamics" - Look it up!
August 04, 2011, 01:59:18 PM
Bitcoin is something new.  Uncle Joe understands credit cards, but he doesn't understand the difference between good money or bad money.

That lack of understanding means Bitcoin is a hard sell, although with the performance of the markets it's getting easier and easier to explain it to him.

hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 500
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
August 04, 2011, 01:54:03 PM
There is still no easy way for me to transfer bitcoins to my computer illiterate (and fictional) uncle Joe. Until then, not enough people care about collecting bitcoins. Maybe bitcoins can be this holiday season's big gift idea? ^^

Installing the bitcoin client isn't difficult,  yes, you'd have to walk Joe through it, but it is still a lot easier than paying him with a credit card.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
"Basics Of Generational Dynamics" - Look it up!
August 04, 2011, 12:09:45 PM
How is $20 looking less and less likely again?
So BTCs drop quite a bit over the past 2-3 days - there isn't any reason why it wouldnt go back up soon. The "crash" (if you can easily call it that) is a result of a few things, at least what I gather, including the MyBitcoins scam and the fact that BTCs hit $20 so fast at first for example. The MyBitcoins scam was an immediate and one time occurrence that'll balance out very shortly.

To say that it won't go back to $20 for a long time is a bit of a long stretch.
To say that it'll NEVER go back to $20 again is an even longer stretch.

This is what early adopters would like to believe, but the crash is due to people realizing bitcoins have no purpose and hence no value unless you are a drug user who prefers online transactions.  If the market were more liquid, I could see bitcoins having some value to investors, but judging by the recent lack of depth on the buyside, this is clearly not the case.

Isn't this analysis ignoring one big thing - It's hard/time consuming/expensive to go from USD -> BTC right now, or really any non-digital currency.

Look at the timing of past surges - There is money trying to get in, and just not getting past the funding hurdle?

Add to that the series of amateur hour mistakes from various bitcoin organizations and thefts, this seems like a pretty extreme negative scenario... until the funding part eases up, at which point the market gets an infusion of hot cash and we're back to the races.

Are you mindful of those factors?  It seems like your analysis is purely based on the charting, which is an incomplete picture by any standards.
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1147
The revolution will be monetized!
August 04, 2011, 11:57:45 AM
"BTC Crash Preparation Kit" lol. Cheesy

Maybe it could be ported to the EURO and used to prop up Italy and Spain?
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000
August 04, 2011, 11:30:01 AM
but the crash is due to people realizing bitcoins have no purpose and hence no value unless you are a drug user who prefers online transactions.  If the market were more liquid, I could see bitcoins having some value to investors, but judging by the recent lack of depth on the buyside, this is clearly not the case.
PURE LIES

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade

THE LIST OF ACCEPTING BUSINESSES IS EXPLODING...

wow, massive list! last time I checked it out there were tops 20 sites listed
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1015
August 04, 2011, 11:06:56 AM
but the crash is due to people realizing bitcoins have no purpose and hence no value unless you are a drug user who prefers online transactions.  If the market were more liquid, I could see bitcoins having some value to investors, but judging by the recent lack of depth on the buyside, this is clearly not the case.
PURE LIES

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade

THE LIST OF ACCEPTING BUSINESSES IS EXPLODING...
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
August 04, 2011, 10:25:00 AM
How is $20 looking less and less likely again?
So BTCs drop quite a bit over the past 2-3 days - there isn't any reason why it wouldnt go back up soon. The "crash" (if you can easily call it that) is a result of a few things, at least what I gather, including the MyBitcoins scam and the fact that BTCs hit $20 so fast at first for example. The MyBitcoins scam was an immediate and one time occurrence that'll balance out very shortly.

To say that it won't go back to $20 for a long time is a bit of a long stretch.
To say that it'll NEVER go back to $20 again is an even longer stretch.

This is what early adopters would like to believe, but the crash is due to people realizing bitcoins have no purpose and hence no value unless you are a drug user who prefers online transactions.  If the market were more liquid, I could see bitcoins having some value to investors, but judging by the recent lack of depth on the buyside, this is clearly not the case.
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1010
Borsche
August 04, 2011, 09:25:50 AM
$20 is looking less and less likely.  Pretty soon I will be preparing the crow for you guys to eat.
Why don't you accept one of the public bet offers then? Have I missed it? You don't have to of course, but it would be more fun. Wink

Because he does not have neither money to bet nor real belief in whatever he's saying Smiley
hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 1002
August 04, 2011, 07:19:36 AM
$20 is looking less and less likely.  Pretty soon I will be preparing the crow for you guys to eat.
Why don't you accept one of the public bet offers then? Have I missed it? You don't have to of course, but it would be more fun. Wink

Slightly off-topic but, I propose making asymmetrical bets (futures contract?) in these cases, so that both sides get the currency they like in the end, and optionally no criteria need to be specified. For instance, I have a bet with a friend saying that "in five years, you will give me 100 bitcoins and I will give you the current equivalent in your preferred currency". There is no "if" clause. So, if the bet is made now against USD, I'd pledge to give him USD 1000 in five years, and him 100 BTC to me. If BTC is worth more than it is now in US dollars, I profit, otherwise he does.

BTC Economist's challenge has an "if" clause though, so even easier. I can take the bet with BTC against USD any time. Better to define "never" first... Smiley
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1014
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
August 04, 2011, 06:16:53 AM
There is still no easy way for me to transfer bitcoins to my computer illiterate (and fictional) uncle Joe. Until then, not enough people care about collecting bitcoins. Maybe bitcoins can be this holiday season's big gift idea? ^^
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
August 04, 2011, 12:01:26 AM
How is $20 looking less and less likely again?
So BTCs drop quite a bit over the past 2-3 days - there isn't any reason why it wouldnt go back up soon. The "crash" (if you can easily call it that) is a result of a few things, at least what I gather, including the MyBitcoins scam and the fact that BTCs hit $20 so fast at first for example. The MyBitcoins scam was an immediate and one time occurrence that'll balance out very shortly.

To say that it won't go back to $20 for a long time is a bit of a long stretch.
To say that it'll NEVER go back to $20 again is an even longer stretch.
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Firstbits.com/1fg4i :)
August 03, 2011, 11:54:41 PM
Nah, being high valued is not a problem as long as it maintains that value; the more people believe it should be worth at least 100 bucks per BTC the faster we'll get there and the easier it will  be to keep it from going down again. We just gotta believe it.
full member
Activity: 243
Merit: 100
August 03, 2011, 08:38:49 PM
#99
I don't necessarily agree with your statements.

If Bitcoin returns and doesn't crash for good...it could easily hit 20 again.  The problem with bitcoin is people invested too quickly and the price went up too quickly.  Right now it needs to be in the single digits to survive.  Losses will come to those that invested high...but as long as speculators don't invest too heavily and bring the price up too quickly it will be easier to believe in the bitcoin.  The big problem is how high it went and how fast it got there.  We are talking THOUSANDS of percentage points in a year.
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
August 03, 2011, 05:53:24 PM
#98
$20 is looking less and less likely.  Pretty soon I will be preparing the crow for you guys to eat.
legendary
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1023
Democracy is the original 51% attack
July 31, 2011, 06:58:52 PM
#97

Again, I still think that there are a few market players in bitcoin artifically holding up the price and causing the scarcity. I would bet that a few people are responsible for buying most of the bitcoins that are going on the market.


What does it mean to "artificially hold up the price and cause scarcity?" Why are my decisions as a market participant "artificial?" I reckon it's because you don't agree with my valuation of the value of a Bitcoin. I think it would be equally silly to say that YOU are "artificially lowering the price" by not buying more coins.

You think Bitcoins aren't worth $13. I think they're worth vastly more. Neither of our opinions are "artificial." I am not causing scarcity, and you are not causing over-supply.

hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 500
July 31, 2011, 06:45:24 PM
#96
Scaracity and hoarding is the only tool that bitcoin bulls have.

I hear a similar story regarding De Beers and Diamonds.
Apparently it's working ok for them.



Yes, it seems to also be working to some extent with bitcoin.

However, when you compare De Beers with  Bitcoin, De Beers is much more controlled by far less people.
Bitcoins are owned by many people so collusion should not be so high.
 
Again, I still think that there are a few market players in bitcoin artifically holding up the price and causing the scarcity. I would bet that a few people are responsible for buying most of the bitcoins that are going on the market.

Will these few players be able to hold up the price of buying the marjority of future bitcoins for the months to come... I do not know if they would take the gamble with that kind of money.

legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1001
July 31, 2011, 06:39:54 PM
#95
Scaracity and hoarding is the only tool that bitcoin bulls have.

I hear a similar story regarding De Beers and Diamonds.
Apparently it's working ok for them.

hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 500
July 31, 2011, 06:21:33 PM
#94
What surprises me about the bitcoin price is how well it is holding around $13 dollars. I guess most bitcoin holders are rich tech savy people, who would rather sit with their coins to their death rather than sell them.

This is probably the reason why the price has not fallen. I can see this going on for a while, and bitcoin holders have already tasted the $20+ dollar range. Most are insane and blind enough in the idea to think each bitcoin is worth a small country. And shit, if I actually owned even 1 bitcoin, maybe I would be insane and blind also. Who does not want to be filthy rich.

Scaracity and hoarding is the only tool that bitcoin bulls have.

Most people interested in buying know that the bitcoin is not worth even worth $13 dollars a coin. They will be much more careful with their dollars.

So the price will be up to the horders not giving in and selling too cheaply. It will not be up to people actually needing or demanding bitcoin for any useful purpose.

I say in the end the price will be lower because every day there are still thousands of bitcoins being produced. With each passing day it will be a test on how long can you hold out when it becomes more obvious that the price is not going any higher.

 
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