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Topic: Bitcoin XT - Officially #REKT (also goes for BIP101 fraud) - page 10. (Read 378991 times)

legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
iCE, have you had enough time to decide if segwit is an attack on Bitcoin Classic?

I'm very happy to finally have a decent plan (besides Dr. Back's extension blocks) on the shelf for use in the (potentially disastrous) event of Actual Widespread Adoption.

Segwit seems to kill 10 birds with one stone, so I don't have a problem with it continuing to percolate through the BIP process.

No firm opinion yet on doing it as a hard or soft fork.  Soft seems better if done electively (because fight features), hard if done in crisis mode.

Have the Gavinistas decided on whether or not segwit is a good thing or a tool of Blockstream Satan?

Is there a schism between the pro-segwit XTurds and anti-segwit Unlimiturds?   Grin
legendary
Activity: 3080
Merit: 1688
lose: unfind ... loose: untight
http://www.techworm.net/2015/12/hacker-ddos-coinbase-website-down.html (lol rekt)

Coinbase is discovering that if you try to destroy Bitcoin, Bitcoin destroys you.

Antisocial degenerate reveling in destructive hackery? Color me shocked. Too bad the attack is ineffectual. No problems logging in here.

Someone gullible enough to run Bitcoin Unlimited thinks ddos is hacking?  Color me shocked.

No, not someone running BU, someone open minded enough to look into it.

If you don't want to include DDoS in your definition of hacking, fine. Either way, it is nefarious and destructive in nature. It reflects a callous disregard for the work of others. And, it is one of the few courses of action available to a desperate loser.

Quote
Ineffectual?  Every minute of downtime costs Coinbase's reputation, plus money in the forms of lost business and attack mitigation.

Yes, ineffectual. Perhaps you missed the part where I was able to log in with no issue. Rather the actual _definition_ of an ineffectual attempt at DDoS, that.

Quote
Just wait until the real hackers/whistleblowers get inside Coinbase and disclose the true extent of their jackboot-kissing, user-tracking, PanoptiCoin shitlording.... 

Such may or may not come to pass. Yet until it does, your statement reflects merely your idle speculation.

Frankly, I don't see the problem. Don't like Coinbase? Don't deal with them. 'Problem' solved. If you are counting on physical destruction to win intellectual arguments, you are ceding that you are already the underdog.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
Brevity wasn't effective, let's try repetition.

A gift from the Front National Reps:

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+MOTION+B8-2015-1366+0+DOC+XML+V0//EN

iCE, have you had enough time to decide if segwit is an attack on Bitcoin Classic?
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
http://www.techworm.net/2015/12/hacker-ddos-coinbase-website-down.html (lol rekt)

Coinbase is discovering that if you try to destroy Bitcoin, Bitcoin destroys you.

Antisocial degenerate reveling in destructive hackery? Color me shocked. Too bad the attack is ineffectual. No problems logging in here.

Someone gullible enough to run Bitcoin Unlimited thinks ddos is hacking?  Color me shocked.

Ineffectual?  Every minute of downtime costs Coinbase's reputation, plus money in the forms of lost business and attack mitigation.

Just wait until the real hackers/whistleblowers get inside Coinbase and disclose the true extent of their jackboot-kissing, user-tracking, PanoptiCoin shitlording....  Cool
legendary
Activity: 3080
Merit: 1688
lose: unfind ... loose: untight
http://www.techworm.net/2015/12/hacker-ddos-coinbase-website-down.html (lol rekt)

Coinbase is discovering that if you try to destroy Bitcoin, Bitcoin destroys you.

Antisocial degenerate reveling in destructive hackery? Color me shocked. Too bad the attack is ineffectual. No problems logging in here.

nah coinbase's suggar daddy could not bare the cash burning rate of the two kids allegedly running the shitshow, figured they would go onto the victimization strategy *slash* attention whore to promote their inept business.

Hmm. If Armstrong and Ehrsam are the 'kids', who is the 'sugar daddy' pulling the strings?
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Warning: Confrmed Gavinista


Your suggestion indicates a more trivial understanding than you are letting on.

Nodes can gradually come online and slowly but surely prune low-bandwidth nodes first and continue to increase support for larger blocks, all while creating a false appearance of organic growth.

I mean this is basic stuff and you can choose to ignore it but it pretty much makes the idea doa.

No, its just stupid.

Why waste your time gaming block size when you can profit by gaming non-FSS RBF with guaranteed results?
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Code:
   Commit 91e6c75
    #1178: Remove Coinbase from the "Choose your Wallet" page

comitter Cøbra authored and committed

LOL REKT XD

Yes, that shows exactly your Bolshevik Front National mentality.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.13392008

Nobody ever claimed FN is libertarian.  It says "nationalist" right on the box.

Bitcoin needs adversity to grow stronger.   In that regard, FN/EU opposition is as useful as Hearn's subversion and sabotage.   Cool

Have you decided how to justify your inexplicable, baffling conjunction of Bolshevism and Nationalism?

Is that footnote of an edge case actually your final answer?  You really can't do a better job of 'clarifying' than that?  Every time I think my opinion of you can't get any lower, you exceed yourself in your ability to disappoint.   Tongue

Without the technical/economic/political background needed to understand the Bitcoin medium, you will never understand Bitcoin's message.


https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3ydpd2/roger_ver_thank_you_brian_armstrong_coinbase_for/cycxtnc?context=3

LOL REKT XD
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

In effect, it does no such thing. It does the exact opposite.  It strives to return an equilibrium among all stakeholders.

It does.

It pretends to use signalling from nodes to create your pretended equilibrium but this is easily skewed by a sybil attack.

Miners are then left to pick a number while unable to discern between legitimate nodes and the sybil attacker.



Yeah, thats a really valid vector:

miner a: Hey, looks like we got 8000 extra nodes on line!
miner b: Wow That looks legit. How long have they been online?
miner a: About 8 minutes. And they are all voting for 16 Exabyte blocks.
miner b: And whats the average for the last 1000 blocks?
miner a: 1.42Mb
miner b: Yup, sounds like 16 Exabytes it is then....

Your suggestion indicates a more trivial understanding than you are letting on.

Nodes can gradually come online and slowly but surely prune low-bandwidth nodes first and continue to increase support for larger blocks, all while creating a false appearance of organic growth.

I mean this is basic stuff and you can choose to ignore it but it pretty much makes the idea doa.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1116
Jeff Garzik and Gavin Andresen: Bitcoin is Being Hot-Wired for Settlement

Quote
We have a disappointing situation where a subset of dev consensus is disconnected from the oft-mentioned desire to increase block size on the part of users, businesses, exchanges and miners. This reshapes bitcoin in ways full of philosophical and economic conflicts of interest. As noted here, inaction changes bitcoin, sets it on a new path

hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Warning: Confrmed Gavinista

In effect, it does no such thing. It does the exact opposite.  It strives to return an equilibrium among all stakeholders.

It does.

It pretends to use signalling from nodes to create your pretended equilibrium but this is easily skewed by a sybil attack.

Miners are then left to pick a number while unable to discern between legitimate nodes and the sybil attacker.



Yeah, thats a really valid vector:

miner a: Hey, looks like we got 8000 extra nodes on line!
miner b: Wow That looks legit. How long have they been online?
miner a: About 8 minutes. And they are all voting for 16 Exabyte blocks.
miner b: And whats the average for the last 1000 blocks?
miner a: 1.42Mb
miner b: Yup, sounds like 16 Exabytes it is then....

Your suggestion indicates a more trivial understanding than you are letting on.
legendary
Activity: 3080
Merit: 1688
lose: unfind ... loose: untight
http://www.techworm.net/2015/12/hacker-ddos-coinbase-website-down.html (lol rekt)

Coinbase is discovering that if you try to destroy Bitcoin, Bitcoin destroys you.

Antisocial degenerate reveling in destructive hackery? Color me shocked. Too bad the attack is ineffectual. No problems logging in here.
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1004

Code:
   Commit 91e6c75
    #1178: Remove Coinbase from the "Choose your Wallet" page

comitter Cøbra authored and committed

LOL REKT XD

Yes, that shows exactly your Bolshevik Front National mentality.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.13392008
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
bolshevik Front National

Bolshevism was the Soviet branch of the explicitly internationalist workers' movement.

Cite:  The Great Soviet Encyclopedia (1979)

Quote
Bolshevism - a consistently revolutionary Marxist current of political thought within the international workers’ movement.

Pro tip: internationalist != nationalist.

Your knowledge of humanities is as appallingly poor as your technical background.

How can you claim to have studied the humanities, yet be so stupendously ignorant of the basic tenets/history of Marxism and Leninism?

Do you just randomly use words with a vaguely negative connotation, or can you actually defend your absurd description of FN as "bolshevik?"

I'd wager it's the former, because compared to you Jon Snow knows just about everything.   Cheesy

LOL

Educate yourself:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Bolshevik_Front
http://anton-shekhovtsov.blogspot.ch/2014/09/the-national-bolshevik-alliance-is.html

Yes, I've seen the entry on that obscure radial case, which as part of the Third Position is absolutely distinct from the plain old "bolshevism" you used (for some unfathomable and still unclarified reason) to modify NF.


https://travis-ci.org/bitcoin-dot-org/bitcoin.org/builds/98931235

Code:
    Commit 91e6c75
    #1178: Remove Coinbase from the "Choose your Wallet" page

comitter Cøbra authored and committed

LOL REKT XD
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
A gift from the Front National Reps:

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+MOTION+B8-2015-1366+0+DOC+XML+V0//EN

iCE, have you had enough time to decide if segwit is an attack on Bitcoin Classic?
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
It is very misleading claim that bitcoin users do not need to trust centralized authority, in fact every one uses bitcoin is trusting this centralized protocol originally designed by Satoshi: Every miners, nodes, exchanges, merchants, users, no exception
What is very misleading? The protocol does not rely on any external authority that enforces it and its original creator is no longer around. In fact miners are free to alter the protocol but they have counter-incentive to do that in the form of block reward. To obtain that they have to keep sure that they keep on extending the longest chain.As for non-miners, they are interested that their transactions are safeguarded, and that is again provided by the longest chain.

Earlier attempts at making digital cash relied solely on cryptography, and had to implement a central trusted server, whereas Satoshi introduced
two economic incentives into the system (block subsidy and transaction fees) which made it possible for it operate in a decentralized manner.

Just as the block reward does away with the need of central authority who issues money and detects double spends, the existence of transaction fee market does away with the need of a central authority who dictates the upper block size limit.
But currently the protocol is the centralized control point, if you can persuade 12 large actors (5 mining pools, 5 exchanges, 1 web wallet and 1 payment processor) to adopt one specific protocol, then you basically control the majority of this ecosystem, anyone else has neglectable influence.
What you are saying here is simply not true, the effective governance of the protocol is far more distributed and nuanced then that. The major public mining pools also do not control the majority of the hashpower they serve.

The reason that it gives people hope that a political move might work is because the protocol is highly centralized, if we indeed have a very decentralized system then there will not be such difficulties like we see today. But you can not have freedom in selecting protocol, since that means you just created another alt-coin which will worth a little due to its inflation nature.
I completely disagree with your notion that the protocol is presently highly centralized, I think that it is working fine and as it was intended and that it just needs to grow in order to become more decentralized. This further highlights and contrasts the difference in vision.

The protocol indeed rely on large actors to enforces it. I would glad to see that the protocol itself is self-aware and reject any attempt to modify it, then we have a truly decentralized system without human interference. All the scaling solution will go off-chain, and I thing that will make bitcoin the most trustworthy/incorruptible monetary system on this planet.
I think that you are critically mistaken in your assertion that Bitcoin should work without human interference, proof of work after all relies on game theory which is based on human incentives, Bitcoin is ruled by the market, it is ruled by people, it is revolutionary because it puts the people in charge without their actually needing to be any humans in the center of power whom require "trust" and checks and balances that often fail to work. This quote I felt was sympathetic to you position, I hope that you will come to understand that Bitcoin depends on the actions of human beings who are a part of this intricate and great machine so to speak.

Quote from: tsontar
In my discussions with various members of Core, I have reached the conclusion that most of them simply disagree with the design of Bitcoin, which by design allows the consensus rules to be changed by a sufficient majority of miners and users, independent of what any group of technocrats wish.

It is important to remember not to attribute malice where ignorance is equally explanatory. All of the devs I engage with are very strong in cryptography and computer science, which may make them less accepting of the fact that at its core, Bitcoin relies in the economic self-interest of the masses to govern consensus, not a group of educated technocrats. As an educated technocrat myself I can understand the sentiment. It would be better if math and only math governed Bitcoin. But that's not how Bitcoin is actually governed.

At the end of the day, if social engineering and developer manipulation can kill Bitcoin, well then we're all betting on the wrong horse.
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1004
bolshevik Front National

Bolshevism was the Soviet branch of the explicitly internationalist workers' movement.

Cite:  The Great Soviet Encyclopedia (1979)

Quote
Bolshevism - a consistently revolutionary Marxist current of political thought within the international workers’ movement.

Pro tip: internationalist != nationalist.

Your knowledge of humanities is as appallingly poor as your technical background.

How can you claim to have studied the humanities, yet be so stupendously ignorant of the basic tenets/history of Marxism and Leninism?

Do you just randomly use words with a vaguely negative connotation, or can you actually defend your absurd description of FN as "bolshevik?"

I'd wager it's the former, because compared to you Jon Snow knows just about everything.   Cheesy

LOL

Educate yourself:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Bolshevik_Front
http://anton-shekhovtsov.blogspot.ch/2014/09/the-national-bolshevik-alliance-is.html
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1004
small block terrorists

Yes Mayor Giuliani, taking down Coinbase for a few minutes is exactly like 9/11.   Roll Eyes

When you resort to conflating UDP packets with mass murder, it's obvious you have lost the debate.


Everybody knows that DDoS attacks are not just terror. It is simply criminal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terror_%28disambiguation%29

But we know as well that you and your 'side' enjoy criminal agitation.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
bolshevik Front National

Bolshevism was the Soviet branch of the explicitly internationalist workers' movement.

Cite:  The Great Soviet Encyclopedia (1979)

Quote
Bolshevism - a consistently revolutionary Marxist current of political thought within the international workers’ movement.

Pro tip: internationalist != nationalist.

Your knowledge of humanities is as appallingly poor as your technical background.

How can you claim to have studied the humanities, yet be so stupendously ignorant of the basic tenets/history of Marxism and Leninism?

Do you just randomly use words with a vaguely negative connotation, or can you actually defend your absurd description of FN as "bolshevik?"

I'd wager it's the former, because compared to you Jon Snow knows just about everything.   Cheesy
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Regarding the governance of the protocol, I think it is not very difficult to reach a consensus if it is a simple fact and everyone understand it. However if you go the radical or complex route, then your fork will just become orphaned
BIP101 is rather simple really which is one of its advantageous, Bitcoin Unlimited might be complex to understand in terms of all of the game theory, code and economics, however the underlying concepts are actually rather simple to understand, just like the Bitcoin protocol itself. Everyone has the freedom of choice.
I have played with several altcoins since I know bitcoin, but I quickly realized that the current cryptocurrency economy only focus on one coin, for the simple reason that people don't come here seeking for inflation. You have some mainstream economic knowledge that is weaved by banks to confuse the majority of human, so no doubt you will draw conclusions that does not fit reality (Reality is that none of the alt-coins will thrive, including banks' alt-coins)
You are repeating this false argument that altcoins and Bitcoin chain forks add inflation to a singular cryptocurrency like Bitcoin, without actually refuting my counter arguments, you are wrong in saying this.

If you look from the view of the central bank, the most important for a monetary system is trust. One of FED's mandate is moderate inflation, because hyperinflation will destroy the trust for their money.
Bitcoin however revolutionizes the concept of trust. A central bank is reliant upon trust, Bitcoin it can be said is almost the opposite, it does not require trust, it is trustless. It is only once people understand this that they can truly "trust" Bitcoin, in many ways it is anti-trust. This is a radical concept for many to understand, this is why your example is a case of false equivalence, you can not compare these two conceptions of "trust" directly in this case.

BIP 101 shakes investor trust since it is too radical, and BU is even more radical. When you are facing a change that no one has done before, you can only act conservative and prepare for the worst, not act radically and hope for the best.
That does seem like this is the engineers approach, which is good if you are an engineer, and we need engineers in Bitcoin as well as people from other fields. When facing a change that no one has done before, I think we should be brave, stick to our principles, act radically and hope for the best. After all does that not describe Bitcoin well? As far as I understand it even the design of Bitcoin is counterintuitive from an engineers perspective, it makes perfect sense in terms of the politics, game theory and economics though. Bitcoin is an example of sacrificing engineering ideals like efficiency for political advantages and principles like decentralization, after all a centralized system is far more efficient. We should not necessarily be conservative in our approach since what we are doing here is radical, much like the American revolution, Bitcoin is a grand social experiment and we need to let the experiment run its course, not stop it in its tracks because some people think that the original vision is to radical and that we should act more conservatively.
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