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Topic: Bitcoin XT - Officially #REKT (also goes for BIP101 fraud) - page 192. (Read 378996 times)

legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
If nothing else, lowering the consensus threshold to 75% in his fork caused Gavin's credibility to plummet in my eyes. I don't like to use polemic words like "coup" but it isn't entirely inappropriate. The intent, of course, was to push a controversial hard fork with as little difficulty as possible in the face of considerable opposition.



It might be hard to get much more than 75% given the fact that the core devs all work for blockstream and couldn't come to a consensus for scaling bitcoin on chain, even after several years of discussion.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 502
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
If nothing else, lowering the consensus threshold to 75% in his fork caused Gavin's credibility to plummet in my eyes. I don't like to use polemic words like "coup" but it isn't entirely inappropriate. The intent, of course, was to push a controversial hard fork with as little difficulty as possible in the face of considerable opposition.

hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

Gavin has been compromised

Blah blah... talk is cheap.  Prove it.

Why should we even listen to you when
you're saying something stupid almost
everyday?

Like this morning:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.12373243


Proof is in the pudding at this point. XT coup was not enough for you?

legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

Gavin has been compromised

Blah blah... talk is cheap.  Prove it.

Why should we even listen to you when
you're saying something stupid almost
everyday?

Like this morning:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.12373243
legendary
Activity: 1638
Merit: 1001
...
pps: peter r is one helluva shady character.

Occasionally I'll take a few seconds and look back at a random few of a guy's posts.  Normally it's not worth the bother.  Just now I noticed that Peter R. was the guy who met the 'little old lady' at the Bitcoin ATM and she was there because she got ripped of by the cryptolocker malware.  That story struck me as likely a bullshit psyop when I first read it.  Just sayin'



I know how you feel.  Sometimes when I get AKo, opp has pocket rockets.
legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
...
pps: peter r is one helluva shady character.

Occasionally I'll take a few seconds and look back at a random few of a guy's posts.  Normally it's not worth the bother.  Just now I noticed that Peter R. was the guy who met the 'little old lady' at the Bitcoin ATM and she was there because she got ripped of by the cryptolocker malware.  That story struck me as likely a bullshit psyop when I first read it.  Just sayin'

hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 502
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
pps: peter r is one helluva shady character.

Can confirm; hellashady.

Who are you?

You like to debate with devs that are well known and identified in the community if not directly criticize them yet there is nothing we know about you.
If you really stand for your words, prove your identity, your references, your curriculum vitae and any information that are relevant for taking you seriously.

Else you're just a shady "let's kill bitcoin core" anon that words spew (and fancy graphs) should be taken with much caution, if not completely ignored

Which they are anyway, besides from that little fools army (probably half faked too - just look at the number of noobs accounts that instantly popped up here and there exclusively shilling for XT in august) you Gavin et al. have managed to brainwash with your mainstream socialist garbage.


PS: Can't wait on how you'll elude my question tho: who da friggin fuck are you? Roll Eyes

How about you tell us who the fuck are you? You were against Gavin who was the main maintainer of the bitcoin github until recently! You perfectly fit in the category that you just stated. If you stand for your words prove your identity, your references, your curriculum vitae and any information that might be relevant for taking you seriously.

Oh wait! You will not do that.

Hypocrisy at its best.

To be fair, in academic discussions and papers, it is customary to identify yourself and your credentials. It's kind of odd that he hasn't. If I had the desire to enter into academic discussions, I wouldn't scoff at the idea of identifying myself.
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1004
pps: peter r is one helluva shady character.

Can confirm; hellashady.

Who are you?

You like to debate with devs that are well known and identified in the community if not directly criticize them yet there is nothing we know about you.
If you really stand for your words, prove your identity, your references, your curriculum vitae and any information that are relevant for taking you seriously.

Else you're just a shady "let's kill bitcoin core" anon that words spew (and fancy graphs) should be taken with much caution, if not completely ignored

Which they are anyway, besides from that little fools army (probably half faked too - just look at the number of noobs accounts that instantly popped up here and there exclusively shilling for XT in august) you Gavin et al. have managed to brainwash with your mainstream socialist garbage.


PS: Can't wait on how you'll elude my question tho: who da friggin fuck are you? Roll Eyes

How about you tell us who the fuck are you? You were against Gavin who was the main maintainer of the bitcoin github until recently! You perfectly fit in the category that you just stated. If you stand for your words prove your identity, your references, your curriculum vitae and any information that might be relevant for taking you seriously.

Oh wait! You will not do that.

Hypocrisy at its best.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
pps: peter r is one helluva shady character.

Can confirm; hellashady.

Who are you?

You like to debate with devs that are well known and identified in the community if not directly criticize them yet there is nothing we know about you.
If you really stand for your words, prove your identity, your references, your curriculum vitae and any information that are relevant for taking you seriously.

Else you're just a shady "let's kill bitcoin core" anon that words spew (and fancy graphs) should be taken with much caution, if not completely ignored

Which they are anyway, besides from that little fools army (probably half faked too - just look at the number of noobs accounts that instantly popped up here and there exclusively shilling for XT in august) you Gavin et al. have managed to brainwash with your mainstream socialist garbage.


PS: Can't wait on how you'll elude my question tho: who da friggin fuck are you? Roll Eyes

How about you tell us who the fuck are you? You were against Gavin who was the main maintainer of the bitcoin github until recently! You perfectly fit in the category that you just stated. If you stand for your words prove your identity, your references, your curriculum vitae and any information that might be relevant for taking you seriously.

Oh wait! You will not do that. Everything that you stated about Gavin while he was the single maintainer of the bitcoin github should be erased/ignored!

Gavin has been compromised and brighter minds have long realized it. Sorry you were late to the party.




I dont suggest killing bitcoin core,
I dont submit any WP pretending it to be worth anything,
I dont waste identified devs time on bitcoin's mailing list,
I dont go on a bitcoin conference to lecture fellow bitcoiners..

If not for the sake of the argument, this is basic courtesy: you introduce your fuckin self.
That's how we, humble bitcoiners, know who we are dealing with.
(and so it goes for that rat that goes by the name Gavin Bell Andressen).


edit: but hey, i'll provide my id when he will.. nothing to hide here.. you should too! ^^
(and if brg does not have it by then Grin).


hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
pps: peter r is one helluva shady character.

Can confirm; hellashady.

Who are you?

You like to debate with devs that are well known and identified in the community if not directly criticize them yet there is nothing we know about you.
If you really stand for your words, prove your identity, your references, your curriculum vitae and any information that are relevant for taking you seriously.

Else you're just a shady "let's kill bitcoin core" anon that words spew (and fancy graphs) should be taken with much caution, if not completely ignored

Which they are anyway, besides from that little fools army (probably half faked too - just look at the number of noobs accounts that instantly popped up here and there exclusively shilling for XT in august) you Gavin et al. have managed to brainwash with your mainstream socialist garbage.


PS: Can't wait on how you'll elude my question tho: who da friggin fuck are you? Roll Eyes

How about you tell us who the fuck are you? You were against Gavin who was the main maintainer of the bitcoin github until recently! You perfectly fit in the category that you just stated. If you stand for your words prove your identity, your references, your curriculum vitae and any information that might be relevant for taking you seriously.

Oh wait! You will not do that. Everything that you stated about Gavin while he was the single maintainer of the bitcoin github should be erased/ignored!

Gavin has been compromised and brighter minds have long realized it. Sorry you were late to the party.

legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007
pps: peter r is one helluva shady character.

Can confirm; hellashady.

Who are you?

You like to debate with devs that are well known and identified in the community if not directly criticize them yet there is nothing we know about you.
If you really stand for your words, prove your identity, your references, your curriculum vitae and any information that are relevant for taking you seriously.

Else you're just a shady "let's kill bitcoin core" anon that words spew (and fancy graphs) should be taken with much caution, if not completely ignored

Which they are anyway, besides from that little fools army (probably half faked too - just look at the number of noobs accounts that instantly popped up here and there exclusively shilling for XT in august) you Gavin et al. have managed to brainwash with your mainstream socialist garbage.


PS: Can't wait on how you'll elude my question tho: who da friggin fuck are you? Roll Eyes

How about you tell us who the fuck are you? You were against Gavin who was the main maintainer of the bitcoin github until recently! You perfectly fit in the category that you just stated. If you stand for your words prove your identity, your references, your curriculum vitae and any information that might be relevant for taking you seriously.

Oh wait! You will not do that. Everything that you stated about Gavin while he was the single maintainer of the bitcoin github should be erased/ignored!
legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283
...
I would not even take your bet if I got to define 'longest'.  I, like every other '1MBer' I can think of except perhaps MP, would be delighted to see larger blocks as long as they are safe _and_ needed.  It's possible that that could happen within the next year and that could be great news.  I think it more unlikely than not though.

2.  Define "needed".

Potential participants who need a very highly secured, expensive, and enduring monetary solution and are willing to pay for it's support are being forced out.

I'll go a step farther and provide a rational for this definition:  It is this class of entities who are capable of providing enduring support for the solution.  Even if they wish to, they would not be able to support anywhere near the mass of 'Free Shit Nation' leaches that the attackers such as Hearn are desperate to burden them with.  At least not on the main chain.  They can support said leaches (and most of their own economic use as well) with sidechain-like solutions built on top of the secure core however, and probably quite easily.

legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political


This is a great example of Pieter giving lip
service to bigger blocks to attempt to appear
unbiased, while at the same time pushing his
agenda.  He sounds just like a politician.


People want bigger blocks so Bitcoin can scale
on chain, not because of some "fear for a
change in economics", whatever that means.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002

He truly is a mysterious man this Peter R:



I'll be sure to raise my hands for a couple questions then Pete  Wink


lol he is the only one on that list without having his full name on. wtf? https://scalingbitcoin.org/montreal2015/#schedule

bring us some treats brg! ^^
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

The trouble with most of these bets (which have been ubiquitous as long as I've been around) is that it is extraordinarily labor intensive to prepare the terms and definitions.  For instance, there is a very good chance that within a year there will be a >1MB block on 'the longest proof-of-work chain'.  But which chain is 'the'.


Clearly the longest proof-of-work chain built from Bitcoin's Genesis Block.  The terms and definitions are trivially simple.

It's not simple at all of the blockchain forks because different groups consider different blocks to be 'valid.'  This is a very real possibility and within this timeframe.


Regardless of anyone's definition of validity, one chain will be longer than the rest (it will contain more cumulative work).  I am betting that this (longest) chain will contain a block greater than 1 MB in size by this time next year.  

There is no ambiguity in that definition.  

While I'm not on Peter R's side in the XT debate, he's correct about this. The terms of this potential "bet" are clear. In any case, even if there were some ambiguity, that's one reason there's a neutral third party in a 2-of-3 multisig.

Now for something completely different. Consider this modified version of "the bet": Peter R and anti-Peter R each put 1 BTC into a 2-of-3 multisig with a neutral third party. One year from now, the 2 BTC are paid out to Peter R on every chain that has had a block over 1MB. The 2 BTC are paid out to anti-Peter R on every chain that has not had a block over 1MB. This would actually give people a way to trade potential coins on potential multiple forks before the potential forks actually occur. It's a little surprising there aren't services offering something like this, given how adamant many people on different sides seem to be.


One example which is classic is that big who-ha about 'block will fill and we are all going to die so we have to do something by {magic date}.  The artifacts of this one continue to linger which is why we still see people who should know better and who were not taken for a ride by the XT/BIP101 attack continue to feel a subconscious need to 'do something'.  Even if it makes no sense (e.g., a paltry 1x block size increase which will do absolutely zilch over what we have at 1MB.)  The manipulation of the herd through psychological means is a high art and science and is extremely well developed by 2015.

Good reference post by Peter Wuille:
http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-June/009098.html

Quote
I do, however, fundamentally disagree that a fear for a change in economics should be considered to necessitate larger blocks. If it is, and there is consensus that we should adapt to it, then there is effectively no limit going forward. This is similar to how Congress voting to increase the copyright term retroactively from time to time is really no different from having an infinite copyright term in the first place. This scares me.

Word.
legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283

The trouble with most of these bets (which have been ubiquitous as long as I've been around) is that it is extraordinarily labor intensive to prepare the terms and definitions.  For instance, there is a very good chance that within a year there will be a >1MB block on 'the longest proof-of-work chain'.  But which chain is 'the'.


Clearly the longest proof-of-work chain built from Bitcoin's Genesis Block.  The terms and definitions are trivially simple.

It's not simple at all of the blockchain forks because different groups consider different blocks to be 'valid.'  This is a very real possibility and within this timeframe.


Regardless of anyone's definition of validity, one chain will be longer than the rest (it will contain more cumulative work).  I am betting that this (longest) chain will contain a block greater than 1 MB in size by this time next year.  

There is no ambiguity in that definition.  

While I'm not on Peter R's side in the XT debate, he's correct about this. The terms of this potential "bet" are clear. In any case, even if there were some ambiguity, that's one reason there's a neutral third party in a 2-of-3 multisig.

Now for something completely different. Consider this modified version of "the bet": Peter R and anti-Peter R each put 1 BTC into a 2-of-3 multisig with a neutral third party. One year from now, the 2 BTC are paid out to Peter R on every chain that has had a block over 1MB. The 2 BTC are paid out to anti-Peter R on every chain that has not had a block over 1MB. This would actually give people a way to trade potential coins on potential multiple forks before the potential forks actually occur. It's a little surprising there aren't services offering something like this, given how adamant many people on different sides seem to be.


When a guy has been around as long as I (and is somewhat analytical by nature), one can spot certain things.  Attacks by competent attackers are normally set up well ahead of time, and it's possible to see them coming.

One example which is classic is that big who-ha about 'block will fill and we are all going to die so we have to do something by {magic date}.  The artifacts of this one continue to linger which is why we still see people who should know better and who were not taken for a ride by the XT/BIP101 attack continue to feel a subconscious need to 'do something'.  Even if it makes no sense (e.g., a paltry 1x block size increase which will do absolutely zilch over what we have at 1MB.)  The manipulation of the herd through psychological means is a high art and science and is extremely well developed by 2015.

Another one is the idea of the 'longest valid chain.'  The 'valid' part is very deliberately stripped out (though a lot of people who have no clue will parrot the words of those who do.)  I'll tell you what is going on here:  Even today it will be quite trivial to form a 'longest chain' which is of whatever structure TPTB desire.  It's not a matter of generating certain blocks but rather of keeping blocks from being generated.  This is trivial to do with injunction since blocks are generated at the pleasure of corporate service providers (especially network providers) and TPTB 'own the net.'  Most of the real world who actually uses Bitcoin (e.g., Coinbase, TigerDirect, etc) are under the same sets of pressures.

The end-play of this 'longest chain' attack will be a bunch of people (such as Peter R) saying 'of course we don't like with the attack on the chain and it is terrible and all, but it's the longest chain(tm) so what can ya do?'

legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
Hey Peter, you show me yours I show you mine Wink
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

About Greg I think he is mostly concerned that   --snip--

Its a good thing Greg has you and hdbuck watching his back.
The entire blockchain might collapse without you two vigilant watchdogs.
We forever owe you a debt of gratitude.


 Cheesy
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks


-- ranting and raving--

If Bip101 is such a tiny minority (yet it was endorsed by major companies),
why are you spending so much energy on it?

Regarding Peter R, what if he's "just a man"?  

Obviously he has enough intellectual clout to
elicit a response from the devs.

I think Greg Maxwell is smart enough to filter
out who deserves a response worthy of his
time and who doesn't, without your help, MKAY?  Roll Eyes

...these companies will do whatever Gavin tell him. They just wanna tell their investors Bitcoin's 7 tps "issue" is solved. They'd sign up for a 200mb increase if this was an option.

About Greg I think he is mostly concerned that Peter is parading his work around as some sort of conclusive evidence that a block size cap is not necessary.

He truly is a mysterious man this Peter R:



I'll be sure to raise my hands for a couple questions then Pete  Wink

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