Author

Topic: Bitcoin XT - Officially #REKT (also goes for BIP101 fraud) - page 219. (Read 378999 times)

sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 251

You're missing the point. What in heaven's name justifies implementing 8GB blocks? By your logic, we can just have 64GB blocks and even more prohibitive costs to running nodes. After all, who cares, right?

Certainly, current transaction volume doesn't suggest this is necessary at all. Why aim for Moore's Law? Let's observe how robust scalability is on a more conservative basis, and keep limit increases in line with actual transaction growth (rather than this fantasy that Moore's Law = bitcoin adoption rising exponentially, endlessly).

i am not suggesting going to 8gb blocks now...
8mb and doubling every two years as with a lower soft-limit is good...
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 251
Unlike your opinion, hardware evolves you know  Roll Eyes

That's very cute, but it's not an adequate response. Firstly, yes, hardware evolves. At what rate over time, and when does the exponential trend end? We don't know. Moore's Law is an unscientific observation -- a theory -- and one that is breaking down: http://thenextweb.com/insider/2015/07/16/intel-quietly-admits-that-its-struggling-with-moores-law/

Further, if block size capacity is inadequate, it is linked to growth in transaction volume and thus, network adoption. Why is this [unproven, unscientific] theory regarding growth in processor capacity being used as a basis for predicting bitcoin adoption? It's already quite a leap to say that growth rates in processing capacity are uniformly applicable to all technologies.....But then to try to take it much further even, and apply that logic to a network of people? Very basic logical failures.

Those who act like we can plan for all contingencies today in regards to hardware and bandwidth advancements, network security in the case of exponentially increasing block size, any the many problems that will come along whether we have thought of them or not are fooling themselves. It seems many fancy themselves visionaries around here -- but I don't see the foresight to warrant it.

if we would have 8GB blocks right now you can have that:

 - run your own node on a server (eg hetzner 50€/month+300€ traffic)
 - run electrum-server there
 - use electrum from home to connect there

which basically means it is possible RIGHT NOW.
eg even if you think that bandwith doesnt change for the next years at all bitcoin would still be usable.

ofc not anybody could afford 350€/monthly. but they might just use spv clients

Are you sure about this? Do you have tests to prove it?

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-08-2015#1244354

home pc? use a spv-wallet at home as it was intended by satoshi (you may ofc use your own server which runs a full node to connect to)

and i am not interested in bitcoin-assets.com. bitcoin is for the masses and not for this crazy mpex sect

(to be honest: full 8gb blocks would be a real problem now. but possible from a technical standpoint? yes only very expensive [hey thats something MP would like... expensive bitcoin Cheesy])
sr. member
Activity: 400
Merit: 250
Unlike your opinion, hardware evolves you know  Roll Eyes

That's very cute, but it's not an adequate response. Firstly, yes, hardware evolves. At what rate over time, and when does the exponential trend end? We don't know. Moore's Law is an unscientific observation -- a theory -- and one that is breaking down: http://thenextweb.com/insider/2015/07/16/intel-quietly-admits-that-its-struggling-with-moores-law/

Further, if block size capacity is inadequate, it is linked to growth in transaction volume and thus, network adoption. Why is this [unproven, unscientific] theory regarding growth in processor capacity being used as a basis for predicting bitcoin adoption? It's already quite a leap to say that growth rates in processing capacity are uniformly applicable to all technologies.....But then to try to take it much further even, and apply that logic to a network of people? Very basic logical failures.

Those who act like we can plan for all contingencies today in regards to hardware and bandwidth advancements, network security in the case of exponentially increasing block size, any the many problems that will come along whether we have thought of them or not are fooling themselves. It seems many fancy themselves visionaries around here -- but I don't see the foresight to warrant it.

if we would have 8GB blocks right now you can have that:

 - run your own node on a server (eg hetzner 50€/month+300€ traffic)
 - run electrum-server there
 - use electrum from home to connect there

which basically means it is possible RIGHT NOW.
eg even if you think that bandwith doesnt change for the next years at all bitcoin would still be usable.

ofc not anybody could afford 350€/monthly. but they might just use spv clients

You're missing the point. What in heaven's name justifies implementing 8GB blocks? By your logic, we can just have 64GB blocks and even more prohibitive costs to running nodes. After all, who cares, right?

Certainly, current transaction volume doesn't suggest this is necessary at all. Why aim for Moore's Law? Let's observe how robust scalability is on a more conservative basis, and keep limit increases in line with actual transaction growth (rather than this fantasy that Moore's Law = bitcoin adoption rising exponentially, endlessly).
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
Unlike your opinion, hardware evolves you know  Roll Eyes

That's very cute, but it's not an adequate response. Firstly, yes, hardware evolves. At what rate over time, and when does the exponential trend end? We don't know. Moore's Law is an unscientific observation -- a theory -- and one that is breaking down: http://thenextweb.com/insider/2015/07/16/intel-quietly-admits-that-its-struggling-with-moores-law/

Further, if block size capacity is inadequate, it is linked to growth in transaction volume and thus, network adoption. Why is this [unproven, unscientific] theory regarding growth in processor capacity being used as a basis for predicting bitcoin adoption? It's already quite a leap to say that growth rates in processing capacity are uniformly applicable to all technologies.....But then to try to take it much further even, and apply that logic to a network of people? Very basic logical failures.

Those who act like we can plan for all contingencies today in regards to hardware and bandwidth advancements, network security in the case of exponentially increasing block size, any the many problems that will come along whether we have thought of them or not are fooling themselves. It seems many fancy themselves visionaries around here -- but I don't see the foresight to warrant it.

if we would have 8GB blocks right now you can have that:

 - run your own node on a server (eg hetzner 50€/month+300€ traffic)
 - run electrum-server there
 - use electrum from home to connect there

which basically means it is possible RIGHT NOW.
eg even if you think that bandwith doesnt change for the next years at all bitcoin would still be usable.

ofc not anybody could afford 350€/monthly. but they might just use spv clients

Are you sure about this? Do you have tests to prove it?

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-08-2015#1244354
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 251
Unlike your opinion, hardware evolves you know  Roll Eyes

That's very cute, but it's not an adequate response. Firstly, yes, hardware evolves. At what rate over time, and when does the exponential trend end? We don't know. Moore's Law is an unscientific observation -- a theory -- and one that is breaking down: http://thenextweb.com/insider/2015/07/16/intel-quietly-admits-that-its-struggling-with-moores-law/

Further, if block size capacity is inadequate, it is linked to growth in transaction volume and thus, network adoption. Why is this [unproven, unscientific] theory regarding growth in processor capacity being used as a basis for predicting bitcoin adoption? It's already quite a leap to say that growth rates in processing capacity are uniformly applicable to all technologies.....But then to try to take it much further even, and apply that logic to a network of people? Very basic logical failures.

Those who act like we can plan for all contingencies today in regards to hardware and bandwidth advancements, network security in the case of exponentially increasing block size, any the many problems that will come along whether we have thought of them or not are fooling themselves. It seems many fancy themselves visionaries around here -- but I don't see the foresight to warrant it.

if we would have 8GB blocks right now you can have that:

 - run your own node on a server (eg hetzner 50€/month+300€ traffic)
 - run electrum-server there
 - use electrum from home to connect there

which basically means it is possible RIGHT NOW.
eg even if you think that bandwith doesnt change for the next years at all bitcoin would still be usable.

ofc not anybody could afford 350€/monthly. but they might just use spv clients
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
^ you're on ignore btw

And I'll be putting you on ignore along with all the greedy elitist-chain parasites quoted here once larger blocks are implemented and your agenda becomes a lost cause.  I'd block you now, but in order to call out the BS, I need to be able to see it.  

well damn I couldn't ask for more than to be enshrined alongside such Bitcoin visionaries. go right ahead !
sr. member
Activity: 400
Merit: 250
Unlike your opinion, hardware evolves you know  Roll Eyes

That's very cute, but it's not an adequate response. Firstly, yes, hardware evolves. At what rate over time, and when does the exponential trend end? We don't know. Moore's Law is an unscientific observation -- a theory -- and one that is breaking down: http://thenextweb.com/insider/2015/07/16/intel-quietly-admits-that-its-struggling-with-moores-law/

Further, if block size capacity is inadequate, it is linked to growth in transaction volume and thus, network adoption. Why is this [unproven, unscientific] theory regarding growth in processor capacity being used as a basis for predicting bitcoin adoption? It's already quite a leap to say that growth rates in processing capacity are uniformly applicable to all technologies.....But then to try to take it much further even, and apply that logic to a network of people? Very basic logical failures.

Those who act like we can plan for all contingencies today in regards to hardware and bandwidth advancements, network security in the case of exponentially increasing block size, any the many problems that will come along whether we have thought of them or not are fooling themselves. It seems many fancy themselves visionaries around here -- but I don't see the foresight to warrant it.
legendary
Activity: 3948
Merit: 3191
Leave no FUD unchallenged
^ you're on ignore btw

And I'll be putting you on ignore along with all the greedy elitist-chain parasites quoted here once larger blocks are implemented and your agenda becomes a lost cause.  I'd block you now, but in order to call out the BS, I need to be able to see it. 
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
^ you're on ignore btw
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Warning: Confrmed Gavinista


I'm sure you are qualified to speak hardware with the folks at BitFury. I suggest you go ahead and write them an email and try to change their mind. Until then...

#REKT

Your posts, as a collection, amount to a veritable orgy of the dunning-kruger effect.   Good work.  Wink
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

Yes about BIP and its very dangerous 75% "supermajority":

Quote
5. Summary
As it stands, the BIP101 has implementation flaws that could cause BIP101 activation with a significantly sub-supermajority, or (in the presence of fake BIP101 voters) a minority. It is almost certain that if BIP101 is activated, it will be with a sub-supermajority, or even a minority.
http://organofcorti.blogspot.ca/2015/08/bip101-implementation-flaws.html

This blog post shows that the probability that BIP101 gets activated and it does not become the longest chain (due to variance) is less likely than the network hash power finding a SHA256 collision:

*zip*

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3ilwq1/bip101_implementation_flaws/

This post shows the probability that BIP101 becomes the longest chain is 0:


Quote
"We believe a substantial part of full nodes right now would not be able to support blocks of this size simply because of hardware limitations. Similarly, we do not support propositions to fork client software as we believe this move may have potential negative consequences for the entire bitcoin ecosystem. - Valery Vavilov BitFury


Unlike your opinion, hardware evolves you know  Roll Eyes

I'm sure you are qualified to speak hardware with the folks at BitFury. I suggest you go ahead and write them an email and try to change their mind. Until then...

#REKT
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
--------------->¿?

Yes about BIP and its very dangerous 75% "supermajority":

Quote
5. Summary
As it stands, the BIP101 has implementation flaws that could cause BIP101 activation with a significantly sub-supermajority, or (in the presence of fake BIP101 voters) a minority. It is almost certain that if BIP101 is activated, it will be with a sub-supermajority, or even a minority.
http://organofcorti.blogspot.ca/2015/08/bip101-implementation-flaws.html

This blog post shows that the probability that BIP101 gets activated and it does not become the longest chain (due to variance) is less likely than the network hash power finding a SHA256 collision:

*zip*

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3ilwq1/bip101_implementation_flaws/

This post shows the probability that BIP101 becomes the longest chain is 0:


Quote
"We believe a substantial part of full nodes right now would not be able to support blocks of this size simply because of hardware limitations. Similarly, we do not support propositions to fork client software as we believe this move may have potential negative consequences for the entire bitcoin ecosystem. - Valery Vavilov BitFury


Unlike your opinion, hardware evolves you know  Roll Eyes
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

Yes about BIP and its very dangerous 75% "supermajority":

Quote
5. Summary
As it stands, the BIP101 has implementation flaws that could cause BIP101 activation with a significantly sub-supermajority, or (in the presence of fake BIP101 voters) a minority. It is almost certain that if BIP101 is activated, it will be with a sub-supermajority, or even a minority.
http://organofcorti.blogspot.ca/2015/08/bip101-implementation-flaws.html

This blog post shows that the probability that BIP101 gets activated and it does not become the longest chain (due to variance) is less likely than the network hash power finding a SHA256 collision:

*zip*

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3ilwq1/bip101_implementation_flaws/

This post shows the probability that BIP101 becomes the longest chain is 0:


Quote
"We believe a substantial part of full nodes right now would not be able to support blocks of this size simply because of hardware limitations. Similarly, we do not support propositions to fork client software as we believe this move may have potential negative consequences for the entire bitcoin ecosystem. - Valery Vavilov BitFury

legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1007

Yes about BIP and its very dangerous 75% "supermajority":

Quote
5. Summary
As it stands, the BIP101 has implementation flaws that could cause BIP101 activation with a significantly sub-supermajority, or (in the presence of fake BIP101 voters) a minority. It is almost certain that if BIP101 is activated, it will be with a sub-supermajority, or even a minority.
http://organofcorti.blogspot.ca/2015/08/bip101-implementation-flaws.html

This blog post shows that the probability that BIP101 gets activated and it does not become the longest chain (due to variance) is less likely than the network hash power finding a SHA256 collision:



Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3ilwq1/bip101_implementation_flaws/
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1004
Of course not. But in typical dictator fashion they have managed to use their authority, PR & industry relations to instill false expectations into more simple users and steer the masses to get behind them against a "common enemy" on the premise of "inclusion" and general abuse of the sever misunderstanding of your typical redditor.

They absolutely have a right to release different code but it should stand on its own and not require a complete propaganda campaign.

There is now a recurring theme of cripplecoiners just reusing arguments levelled against them. What you wrote is pretty much exactly what has been said about those who would block development in the area of block size increase (the dictators) and those on the forums who tirelessly post anti XT rhetoric to try and convince everyone that Mike and Gavin are the enemy.

Then hilariously you suggest they should be allowed release code that stands on its own. Which is exactly what has been said about lightning.

Cut and paste designed to muddy the waters. You are a relentless poster, unnaturally so IMHO. So tell me is this propaganda?

"XT has already lost"

It's a spam attack. 28 (twentyeight) 'posts' today.
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Warning: Confrmed Gavinista

So... you're getting get 2MB, not much more. I hope this can satisfy your urge for transactions!


Wait... So you are now on our side  Huh Huh Huh  How did that happen? On the road to Damascus?

Someone call cointelegraph.com -  "brg444 in pro big block shocker"   Cheesy

There is a distinction here. It's going to be bigger blocks, nothing outrageous like 20mb or 8mb the XT team was pushing for.

I'm not sure you can find a post from me here arguing we should keep block size at 1mb forever but feel free to looks into my post history if you care.

You are now going through the denial phase of your grief.

Quote from: Indignant_brg444
hhhrrrmmfff...  I never said I was against bigger blocks... Some of my best friends are bigger blocks...  hhrrrmmppff

Lambchop are you not satisfied trolling the speculation section you have to spread your ignorance here as well?  Undecided

Coming from you, I will take that as a huge compliment!!   Thanks, mate.   Cheesy

But alas no, brony free zone here.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

So... you're getting get 2MB, not much more. I hope this can satisfy your urge for transactions!


Wait... So you are now on our side  Huh Huh Huh  How did that happen? On the road to Damascus?

Someone call cointelegraph.com -  "brg444 in pro big block shocker"   Cheesy

There is a distinction here. It's going to be bigger blocks, nothing outrageous like 20mb or 8mb the XT team was pushing for.

I'm not sure you can find a post from me here arguing we should keep block size at 1mb forever but feel free to looks into my post history if you care.

You are now going through the denial phase of your grief.

Quote from: Indignant_brg444
hhhrrrmmfff...  I never said I was against bigger blocks... Some of my best friends are bigger blocks...  hhrrrmmppff

Lambchop are you not satisfied trolling the speculation section you have to spread your ignorance here as well?  Undecided
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Warning: Confrmed Gavinista

So... you're getting get 2MB, not much more. I hope this can satisfy your urge for transactions!


Wait... So you are now on our side  Huh Huh Huh  How did that happen? On the road to Damascus?

Someone call cointelegraph.com -  "brg444 in pro big block shocker"   Cheesy

There is a distinction here. It's going to be bigger blocks, nothing outrageous like 20mb or 8mb the XT team was pushing for.

I'm not sure you can find a post from me here arguing we should keep block size at 1mb forever but feel free to looks into my post history if you care.

You are now going through the denial phase of your grief.

Quote from: Indignant_brg444
hhhrrrmmfff...  I never said I was against bigger blocks... Some of my best friends are bigger blocks...  hhrrrmmppff
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks


Also, unlike the childish rethoric of poors vs rich or smallblockers vs. blockstream brought to you by very naive people, Mike & Gavin have pretty much revealed themselves as indeed very dangerous for Bitcoin. That's a difference and it needs to be addressed. AFAIK none of the small blocks proponent have put the ecosystem at risk like these two clowns did.

Yes, XT has already lost:


You continue to be a source of comedy gold.  You have been played for a fool, and now you are out on your own, alone, with nothing to fight.

The debate will continue without you - we are now deciding what size the increase will be.

We?

It seems to me team Blockstream is leading the debate as we speak! Who do you represent? The 8MBers? Ewww.

You may be right, this block size capitulation makes their humiliation complete

For your argument to make any sense you'd have to present actual proofs that the developers were ever against increasing the block size and swore to keep 1mb forever
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

So... you're getting get 2MB, not much more. I hope this can satisfy your urge for transactions!


Wait... So you are now on our side  Huh Huh Huh  How did that happen? On the road to Damascus?

Someone call cointelegraph.com -  "brg444 in pro big block shocker"   Cheesy

There is a distinction here. It's going to be bigger blocks, nothing outrageous like 20mb or 8mb the XT team was pushing for.

I'm not sure you can find a post from me here arguing we should keep block size at 1mb forever but feel free to looks into my post history if you care.
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