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Topic: Bitcoin XT - Officially #REKT (also goes for BIP101 fraud) - page 55. (Read 378992 times)

legendary
Activity: 2282
Merit: 1050
Monero Core Team
Wrong, wrong and more wrong.
The 1MB limit was put in place in 2010, not 2008. Actual bitcoin network upload speed (the real bottleneck) measurements show upload bandwidth for nodes at edge of network is growing at closer to 17-25%. (This disregards data caps for total bandwidth available also).

Bitcoin also had a 250kb limit at the time, implemented as a soft-rule by miners rather than a hard protocol rule. If you take the current system with a 2010 client (and much less a circa 2010 computer) it will likely not keep up with the network (if you try, let me know in a month when you complete the initial block download... Smiley Tongue ). The limits then were already set in a forward looking manner and we have been scrambling to keep up with the network as it's grown into them.

get real. you can buy a 1TB harddrive for $50 today and store BIP101-enabled blockchain onto it for years to come. then pay $50 more for a 4TB drive to handle a few more years of growth.  or are you still using the same computer you owned in 1999 with its 1.6GHz singlecore, 512MB ram, and 60GB HDD (all cutting edge)?
This is ignorant of the total costs of operating a reliable production grade system in a commercial environment... including the need to be nowhere near capacity at any time even when run on underspeced/io-starved/misconfigured mystery-meat hosting in order to make sure that nothing especially clever or difficult is required so that you can employ commonly available ham-sandwiches as devops.

This may not be as true for businesses that really consider Bitcoin to be central to their business-- but, as a bitcoin-seriousness proxy, how many non-mining Bitcoin companies do you know of that mine and participate in the network consensus? (I know of only one, ahem; and it seems like in not to long the same may apply for running full nodes)... Ultimately if the system is only usable in a way that preserves its political and security properties by those who are those who are the "most serious" (and politically motivated) then it will not be a success as a decentralized system.  It's not good enough to be accessible to some, to achieve decentralization it has to be broadly accessible.

There are many factors standing in the way of that; including indifference and a lack of education but resource impacts absolutely play a part of it. You don't see people widely outsourcing their DHCP daemons, though they're incidental to their business. Why isn't a Bitcoin node as invisible as a DHCP server? Go show me a DHCP server that uses tens of gigs of storage, hundreds of gigs of transfer, gigabytes of ram, significant amounts of CPU, etc. and all these demands constantly growing.

One of the reasons I think that XT has been as much of a flop as it has, so quickly, is that many of the people persuaded by the eloquent rants of misleading simplicity went and actually ran a Bitcoin node; and encountered the same costs and annoyances that users have been complaining about heavily since the soft limits were cranked... and lost their conviction. I know this is true for some, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were a more general pattern.(I also suspect that many, though probably not all, the people complaining about DOS attacks weren't just seeing the ordinary load that every other node sees; including the "attack like" traffic from people trying to trace transaction origins-- even I thought someone was attacking Core nodes and changed to identify as XT and saw no difference in traffic)... plus the whole, "unlimited blocks are great, so long as someone else is paying the cost", which doesn't actually work...



hmm ...

My computer from 2008 has actually no problem at all keeping up with not just the Bitcoin blockchain but also the Namecoin and Monero blockchains all at the same time. Until August of this year I ran a Bitcoin node on a laptop from 2002 with a Pentium M processor, 1 GB of RAM and a 120 MB SSD. The laptop was so old that it was cheaper to replace the old PATA HDD when it failed with a PATA SSD. The laptop also has a floppy disk drive and a Windows 2000 logo.

Lack of education, indifference are part of the issue. The biggest problem is the replacement of desktop and laptop computers with mobile devices that while perfectly capable are crippled with DRM and propriety operating systems. A iPad in a good example of the latter, and can be far more expensive than a 3 year old laptop with a 1 TB SSD drive.
staff
Activity: 4284
Merit: 8808
We should not restrict anyone from being able to run a node, nor should we make it much harder (somewhat is acceptable) for those that already are running them, just because a group of 'scoundrel' want to pay for their coffee using Bitcoin.
Nothing wrong for paying for coffee with Bitcoin or even the bitcoin network. But to whatever extent there is a choice between monetary sovereignty and direct blockchain small retail sales-- the latter can be replaced using a lot of different mechanisms (for coffee? even centralized ones, for godssakes!); and the former cannot...   I don't really think there is a fundamental mutual exclusion, but avoiding it will require being smarter, and not just cramming things in. Bitcoin: It's not a big truck.

Of more concern than "coffee" is transactions which have nothing to do with Bitcoin, transfer no Bitcoin value; and are just stuffing data into the bitcoin network because it's available; and some people have been going around selling the idea of ignoring the Bitcoin currency and saying that the system is just a big public database. This sort of stuff is out of scope for the Bitcoin system and endangers it survival when the cost of carting around a zillion 'stock transfer' zero value txouts overwhelms the public's interest in Bitcoin. ... and they've been a major driver for calls to remove Bitcoin's resource controls. I think totally separate assets need to have their own networks and fates, or otherwise one becomes an externalized cost on the other and can act as dead weight that removes the viability of the combined system.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 3000
Terminated.
Handling the amount of Visa transactions of 2015, by 2032, will make Bitcoin obsolete then because it will not be able to handle enough volume (i.e. BIP101 solves nothing).
You claim that increasing the blocksize according to the schedule outlined in BIP101 solves nothing yet it does increases the throughput of the Bitcoin blockchain by a factor of eight thousand, compared to where it is now over a period of twenty years. Practically this makes a huge difference, the solution does not need to be perfect, be careful to not fall into the trap of the engineers nirvana fallacy.
[/quote]
So you're telling me that we should choose this "solution" just because it changes the amount of volume that Bitcoin can process even though there is a better solution (LN)? That makes, no sense at all.


you *seriously* beleive that a major bitcoin exchange does not operate thier own node? Something that can be achieved for <$100 with a standalone device and uses <64GB of storage?

get real. you can buy a 1TB harddrive for $50 today and store BIP101-enabled blockchain onto it for years to come. then pay $50 more for a 4TB drive to handle a few more years of growth.  or are you still using the same computer you owned in 1999 with its 1.6GHz singlecore, 512MB ram, and 60GB HDD (all cutting edge)?
Ah yes, the classic argumentum ad Amazon fallacy, wherein some fuckwit proffers his worthless opinion of the form 'hurr durr cheap harddrives amirite.'
You still don't understand the primary constraint on larger blocks is upstream bandwidth/verification latency (not storage)?
-snip-
Everyone in the world has access to Amazon prices and everyone in the world has money to spare on big HDD(s) and high speed internet. This logic is definitely not flawed.  Roll Eyes We should not restrict anyone from being able to run a node, nor should we make it much harder (somewhat is acceptable) for those that already are running them, just because a group of 'scoundrel' want to pay for their coffee using Bitcoin.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
If nothing else, lowering the consensus threshold to 75% in his fork caused Gavin's credibility to plummet in my eyes. I don't like to use polemic words like "coup" but it isn't entirely inappropriate
staff
Activity: 4284
Merit: 8808
Wrong, wrong and more wrong.
The 1MB limit was put in place in 2010, not 2008. Actual bitcoin network upload speed (the real bottleneck) measurements show upload bandwidth for nodes at edge of network is growing at closer to 17-25%. (This disregards data caps for total bandwidth available also).

Bitcoin also had a 250kb limit at the time, implemented as a soft-rule by miners rather than a hard protocol rule. If you take the current system with a 2010 client (and much less a circa 2010 computer) it will likely not keep up with the network (if you try, let me know in a month when you complete the initial block download... Smiley Tongue ). The limits then were already set in a forward looking manner and we have been scrambling to keep up with the network as it's grown into them.

get real. you can buy a 1TB harddrive for $50 today and store BIP101-enabled blockchain onto it for years to come. then pay $50 more for a 4TB drive to handle a few more years of growth.  or are you still using the same computer you owned in 1999 with its 1.6GHz singlecore, 512MB ram, and 60GB HDD (all cutting edge)?
This is ignorant of the total costs of operating a reliable production grade system in a commercial environment... including the need to be nowhere near capacity at any time even when run on underspeced/io-starved/misconfigured mystery-meat hosting in order to make sure that nothing especially clever or difficult is required so that you can employ commonly available ham-sandwiches as devops.

This may not be as true for businesses that really consider Bitcoin to be central to their business-- but, as a bitcoin-seriousness proxy, how many non-mining Bitcoin companies do you know of that mine and participate in the network consensus? (I know of only one, ahem; and it seems like in not to long the same may apply for running full nodes)... Ultimately if the system is only usable in a way that preserves its political and security properties by those who are those who are the "most serious" (and politically motivated) then it will not be a success as a decentralized system.  It's not good enough to be accessible to some, to achieve decentralization it has to be broadly accessible.

There are many factors standing in the way of that; including indifference and a lack of education but resource impacts absolutely play a part of it. You don't see people widely outsourcing their DHCP daemons, though they're incidental to their business. Why isn't a Bitcoin node as invisible as a DHCP server? Go show me a DHCP server that uses tens of gigs of storage, hundreds of gigs of transfer, gigabytes of ram, significant amounts of CPU, etc. and all these demands constantly growing.

One of the reasons I think that XT has been as much of a flop as it has, so quickly, is that many of the people persuaded by the eloquent rants of misleading simplicity went and actually ran a Bitcoin node; and encountered the same costs and annoyances that users have been complaining about heavily since the soft limits were cranked... and lost their conviction. I know this is true for some, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were a more general pattern.(I also suspect that many, though probably not all, the people complaining about DOS attacks weren't just seeing the ordinary load that every other node sees; including the "attack like" traffic from people trying to trace transaction origins-- even I thought someone was attacking Core nodes and changed to identify as XT and saw no difference in traffic)... plus the whole, "unlimited blocks are great, so long as someone else is paying the cost", which doesn't actually work...

legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

I would have serious doubts that bitstamp even runs one single full node of their own ... probably outsourced.

you *seriously* beleive that a major bitcoin exchange does not operate thier own node? Something that can be achieved for <$100 with a standalone device and uses <64GB of storage?


get real. you can buy a 1TB harddrive for $50 today and store BIP101-enabled blockchain onto it for years to come. then pay $50 more for a 4TB drive to handle a few more years of growth.  or are you still using the same computer you owned in 1999 with its 1.6GHz singlecore, 512MB ram, and 60GB HDD (all cutting edge)?

Ah yes, the classic argumentum ad Amazon fallacy, wherein some fuckwit proffers his worthless opinion of the form 'hurr durr cheap harddrives amirite.'

You still don't understand the primary constraint on larger blocks is upstream bandwidth/verification latency (not storage)?

How did you manage to miss the last 9 months of discussion?  Or did you make up your mind and stop accepting inconvenient facts when the Great Schism started?
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
You keep saying that it is opt-in however it is only opt-in for the sender not the reciever,
Not so, the merchant can simply ignore the transaction until it is confirmed; as they already do for all manner of unusual, nonstandard, unconfirmed input transactions, etc. or otherwise their acceptance of zero conf is no more secure than RBF (if it ever is...) ... and doing this is relatively harmless, because Opt-in RBF transactions do not need to suffer significant confirmation delays.
My point still stands and like I said before ignoring a transaction until it is confirmed is not suitable for the retail environment I was using as an example.

For me it is not even a question of greater expertise since it has also become about ideology relating to economics and politics, these are questions that most technical experts are not specifically trained to answer. I think that some of these more fundamental questions like the blocksize for instance are more concerned with politics and economics then computer science,
You are making a strong and unjustified assumption about the skills and background of people maintaining Bitcoin Core. I think you may be making the fallacy of assuming that a group excellent in a particular area must necessarily be weak in another specific area.
It is impossible to be an expert in an unlimited amount of fields, I think that multi disciplinary approaches do lead to the best understanding in most cases, however specialization to a certain extend is required. We can be good at many things but only masters at some.

However in regards to my political arguments it is irrelevant how qualified in any field Core is, A benign dictatorship is still a dictatorship, we could debate whether it would be an oligarchy, technocracy or a form of totalitarianism. It still does not change the underlying nature of what would define the governance under Core without significant support for alternative implementations. I can understand that software development needs to be "dictatorial" in its internal decision making process. This is why distributing development allows it to become more "democratic" and more in line with the ethos of decentralization within Bitcoin.

The community, even the most active segment, is fairly large and diverse in many ways-- much more so then, for example, the persons working on XT*. Beyond the expected CS and distributed systems PHDs, the community includes people with expertise in mathematics, economics, financial markets, ... Peter Todd has a fine arts degree. Skepticism about the viability of the Bitcoin system absent effective meaningful block size limits can be found in peer reviewed academic publications in economics venues. Negative effects on mining fairness are both predicted by simulation, and borne out in field trials on test networks.
Like I said before it is irrelevant how benign or qualified Core might be, I will still vote according to my own conscience. The problem might just be that Core is not effectively communicating this I am open to that idea. I might not be a technical expert but I have spent most of my time over the last year learning about cryptocurrency, so if I am simply failing to understand this then Core might have a problem with communication. However I suspect that the conclusions of some of your research would depend on the ideological understandings of these definitions. For instance I consider pools to be comparible to a form of representive democracy for the miners, I suspect that this would effect your conclusions on "miner centralization". If we accept the continued existence of 10-20 pools for miners to freely choose from, which is how Bitcoin functions today.

[*As a  vague yardstick, there are ~19 contributors to Bitcoin core with individually more commit count activity in the last six months then all contributors to XT had in both XT and Core combined. Commit count is a crappy metric and you can figure that is off by a large factor in either direction; but this isn't really a comparable; and this is in spite of non-stop attacks that make working on Bitcoin really demoralizing]
I do hope you keep your spirit up, and I would consider it to be a shame if you did stop working on Bitcoin if BIP101 forked the network like you said you would. I would however absolutely respect your right to continue supporting Core if it chose not to adopt BIP101 and continue to exist as the smaller chain, if you are correct in your theories then it should become the dominant chain again over the long run.

And beyond the expertise, we're speaking about a question where in the absence of perfect knowledge we conducted the experiment: We raise the soft blocksize target from 250k to 750k and saw tremendously negative effects: substantial declines in node count (in spite large growths in userbase; and to brag, somewhat heroic efforts to increase software performance), substantial increases in mining centralization, substantial increases in Bitcoin businesses relying on third party APIs rather than running nodes (hugely magnifying systemic risks).
I am somewhat doubtfull whether you can definitively causally link all of these factors to the increased transaction volume, there are also many different variables at play, including increased decentralization because of adoption.

It is a tug of war of these different variables so to speak. I do think that the blocksize should ideally be a balancing act, with the limit acting as a precautionary measure, meaning that the blocks should not become consistently full over longer periods of time, I would disagree with such a change in the economic policy of Bitcoin, this was also never supposed to be the intention of this limit, there are also concerns over this somewhat breaking the social contract as well.

And today we are left at a point where the bandwidth consumption of an ordinary Bitcoin node just barely fits within the 350GB/mo transfer cap of a high end, "best available in most of the US" broadband service.
I have done some research to test this statement and I do not think it is true. Comcast has an available option for having no data limit, while AT&T has a service where they "do not enforce" the data cap, I know that is a bit weird but that is what I found out. Time Warner also does not have data caps on its more popular plans and Verizon also does not have data caps. These are the top four ISP's in the US, the situation in Europe is also getting better like the US. To be fair these are relatively recent developments, so I would understand how you might have been mistaken about these facts.

We cannot know to what degree the load increase was causative, but none of the metrics had positive outcomes; and this is a reason to proceed only with the greatest care and consideration.
This I can agree with, however care and consideration can of course also be taken to far.

Especially against a backdrop where Bitcoin's fundamental utility as a money are being attacked by efforts to regulate people's ability to transact and to blacklist coins; efforts that critically depend on the existence of centralized choke-points which scale beyond the system's scalability necessarily creates.
This I actually disagree with, I also see a threat of centralized choke points however it would more likely be due to an increased reliance on a limited number of third parties because of the presently restricted blocksize.

You're right though that the question is substantially political: A fully centralized system could easily handle gigabyte blocks with the work we've do to make megabyte blocks barely viable in a highly decentralized world. Such a system could also happily institute excess inflation, censor transactions, and other moves "for the good of the system" and "to assure widest adoption".
You are arguing a straw man here, I believe that increasing the blocksize is what will be best for decentralization over the long run. Leaving the one megabyte restriction in place presents greater risks of centralization and obsolescence.

If Bitcoin is to survive in the long run we just stand by the principles we believe in, and which make the system valuable in the first place. -- Even against substantial coercive pressure.  Otherwise the transparent system of autonomously enforced rules risks devolving into another politically controlled trust-based instrument of expedience that we see with legacy monetary instruments.
I have the same concern, however I perceive Core as being the most likely point of centralization at this point, yet it seems like we do share some of the same principles yet we are on opposite sides of this debate.

Furthermore when blocks do fill up we now already have child pays for parent for unsticking transactions without the negative consequences
We do not. CPFP has substantial complexities that prevent it from actually working on the network today; and using it has large overheads. It will be a good additional tool to have, but it does not replace RBF.
I believe that I have used CPFP for some very practical reosons, I thought it was a pretty good feature at least from the perspective of the user. One of the many things I can congratulate Core for developing.

In regards to you saying that Gavin is not active in development I certainly do have a different perspective, considering
You can have a different perspective; but you cannot have your own facts. This is a question of objective fact. But you mistake my comment for an insult, it wasn't intended as one-- who am I to judge what someone else spends their time on? But rather an observation the it would have been surprising to see a contribution there.
You somewhat missed the point I made about Gavin, I consider him to have contributed a lot for the development of the Bitcoin protocol by his actions to increase the blocksize, which is an important issue to me.

which can only be done significantly by increasing the blocksize.
An action which you could only contemplate due to the work of myself and others who believe that the BIP101 approach would be significantly damaging. I think it's likely that it will be increased in the future, but in a way only that preserves Bitcoin's properties as a decenteralized P2P electronic cash, rather than disregarding them or undermining them.
Saying that it will likely be increased in the future is not good enough, which is why we are at this impasse in the first place. You can not expect us to simply trust Core to increase the blocksize when we do have a fundamental ideological disagreement about allowing the blocks to fill up. If you where to take the smart political approach you should announce a date for an increased blocksize before January, this would allow Core to maintain control for longer which I would hope would be for benign reasons like helping to ease the transition into having multiple implementations to distribute the power of development more.

It should be an increase that meets BIP101 in the middle, it would need to be a true comprise. BIP100 might be able to serve this role, even with the thirty two megabyte limit that still exists, at least it would set a precedent. I am being generous here because I would prefer to see consensus through compromise compared to the possibility of a split.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

I would have serious doubts that bitstamp even runs one single full node of their own ... probably outsourced.

you *seriously* beleive that a major bitcoin exchange does not operate thier own node? Something that can be achieved for <$100 with a standalone device and uses <64GB of storage?


get real. you can buy a 1TB harddrive for $50 today and store BIP101-enabled blockchain onto it for years to come. then pay $50 more for a 4TB drive to handle a few more years of growth.  or are you still using the same computer you owned in 1999 with its 1.6GHz singlecore, 512MB ram, and 60GB HDD (all cutting edge)?

Running Bitcoin core is another thing than building a complete software stack for an exchange.

There's a reason companies like Chain, BlockCypher, etc. exist. I wouldn't be surprised to know that Bitstamp uses one of these companies API to support their operations. Hell they run BitGo's multi-sig wallet code. All that jazz strapped onto Bitcoinica footprints. What could go wrong heh  Roll Eyes

Mike Hearn has often hinted to this himself. There is important developer's cost into building a full fledged node software. Specialization in that regard is a real concern.
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo

I would have serious doubts that bitstamp even runs one single full node of their own ... probably outsourced.

you *seriously* beleive that a major bitcoin exchange does not operate thier own node? Something that can be achieved for <$100 with a standalone device and uses <64GB of storage?


get real. you can buy a 1TB harddrive for $50 today and store BIP101-enabled blockchain onto it for years to come. then pay $50 more for a 4TB drive to handle a few more years of growth.  or are you still using the same computer you owned in 1999 with its 1.6GHz singlecore, 512MB ram, and 60GB HDD (all cutting edge)?

I know of several large bitcoin trading institutions that outsource btc operations to API providers ... or worse. It has nothing to do with hardware, they can't be bothered with the IT sysadmin overhead which for them is incomprehensible geek-speak, they are purely money-shufflers.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
One of the negative impacts of the 1 MB limit has been to encourage vertical intergration of ASIC production and mining in China. A higher limit would have encouraged the export oF ASIC hardware from China since  China itself is an edge case for Internet bandwith and latency because of the great firewall of China.

Did I read that wrong  Huh

How does that follow again?

It happens that China is the cheapest place to make Bitcoin ASICs but also has a lousy Internet connection to the rest of the world. If one increases the blocksize this puts miners in China at a disadvantage. It leads to decentralization because there is now a strong incentive to sell and export the ASIC hardware rather than for the manufacturer to just operate the ASIC hardware themselves creating vertical intergration.

I'm sorry I don't see it.

Seeing as China more or less controls 50% of the hashing power they could actually be at an advantage against more dispersed western miners.

Such a move would likely see them ramp up ASIC production.
legendary
Activity: 2128
Merit: 1005
ASIC Wannabe

I would have serious doubts that bitstamp even runs one single full node of their own ... probably outsourced.

you *seriously* beleive that a major bitcoin exchange does not operate thier own node? Something that can be achieved for <$100 with a standalone device and uses <64GB of storage?


get real. you can buy a 1TB harddrive for $50 today and store BIP101-enabled blockchain onto it for years to come. then pay $50 more for a 4TB drive to handle a few more years of growth.  or are you still using the same computer you owned in 1999 with its 1.6GHz singlecore, 512MB ram, and 60GB HDD (all cutting edge)?
legendary
Activity: 2282
Merit: 1050
Monero Core Team
One of the negative impacts of the 1 MB limit has been to encourage vertical intergration of ASIC production and mining in China. A higher limit would have encouraged the export oF ASIC hardware from China since  China itself is an edge case for Internet bandwith and latency because of the great firewall of China.

Did I read that wrong  Huh

How does that follow again?

It happens that China is the cheapest place to make Bitcoin ASICs but also has a lousy Internet connection to the rest of the world. If one increases the blocksize this puts miners in China at a disadvantage. It leads to decentralization because there is now a strong incentive to sell and export the ASIC hardware rather than for the manufacturer to just operate the ASIC hardware themselves creating vertical intergration.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
I am using the 50% figure for bandwidth from the reference I provided. I do not know where the lower 25% figure comes from.

With respect to the great firewall of China affecting Internet latency, this is no secret to anyone who has actually researched Bitcoin mining. As to my Internet connection I actually live in a smaller centre, in a larger centre in the same province I could get 1 Gbit/s download and upload http://urbanfibre.ca/ rather than the 50 Mbit/s I get for approximately the same price.



Yes. It's this bit I can't quite process

Quote
A higher limit would have encouraged the export oF ASIC hardware from China

In regards to the internet connection discussion, reality check:

legendary
Activity: 2282
Merit: 1050
Monero Core Team
I am using the 50% figure for bandwidth from the reference I provided. I do not know where the lower 25% figure comes from.

With respect to the great firewall of China affecting Internet latency, this is no secret to anyone who has actually researched Bitcoin mining. As to my Internet connection I actually live in a smaller centre, in a larger centre in the same province I could get 1 Gbit/s download and upload http://urbanfibre.ca/ rather than the 50 Mbit/s I get for approximately the same price.

hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
One of the negative impacts of the 1 MB limit has been to encourage vertical intergration of ASIC production and mining in China. A higher limit would have encouraged the export oF ASIC hardware from China since  China itself is an edge case for Internet bandwith and latency because of the great firewall of China.

Did I read that wrong  Huh

How does that follow again?
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo
...

Wrong, wrong and more wrong.

The 1MB limit was put in place in 2010, not 2008. Actual bitcoin network upload speed (the real bottleneck) measurements show upload bandwidth for nodes at edge of network is growing at closer to 17-25%. (This disregards data caps for total bandwidth available also).

So you have made a case for 8 MB rather than 1 MB.

Check your math ... at the top-end 25%, 1.25^5 * 1MB = 3MB

Are you intentionally high-balling or your figures just always happily err on your side of the argument? (2008 =/= 2010, 50%=/=25%, 8MB=/=3MB, etc, etc).

The rest of your non-arguments about your residential connection is one ad-hoc data point and the stuff about chinese vertical integration of ASIC (lolwtf?) is simply pure speculation. Decentralisation will be seriously challenged by bigger blocks, it is already and the data points to that not getting any better any time soon.
legendary
Activity: 2282
Merit: 1050
Monero Core Team
...

Wrong, wrong and more wrong.

The 1MB limit was put in place in 2010, not 2008. Actual bitcoin network upload speed (the real bottleneck) measurements show upload bandwidth for nodes at edge of network is growing at closer to 17-25%. (This disregards data caps for total bandwidth available also).

So you have made a case for 8 MB rather than 1 MB. As for data caps I currently have a residential Internet connection with no data cap. I got this a little over a year ago when it was first offered. When Bitcoin was first released it had an effective 32 MB blocksize limit.

On a related note. One of the negative impacts of the 1 MB limit has been to encourage vertical intergration of ASIC production and mining in China. A higher limit would have encouraged the export oF ASIC hardware from China since  China itself is an edge case for Internet bandwith and latency because of the great firewall of China.

There are valid arguments against BIP 101 but decentralization is not one of them.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
Whatever happened to this guy: https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoinxt/comments/3uwpvh/the_real_reason_peter_r_talk_was_refused_from_his/cxik7cd

He always sounded somewhat butthurt by the work of Core devs but it seems he's fully embracing the dark side nowadays. How does one lose touch with reality so severely?

Justus is mad the Bitcoin airplane isn't being chopped up and restructured in mid-flight according to his whims.

He has an interesting idea for an experiment which may create an effective market for blocksize, etc. but insists his altcoin scheme be imposed upon Bitcoin, rather than the common-sense approach of forking off and launching independently.

He's more of a cranky 'zomg privatize the garbage trucks right fucking now' libertarian than a True Bitcoiner cypherpunk; he doesn't grok Satoshi's Vision nor the implications of its nigh-impervious socioeconomic majority.

The boy has good instincts (EG "if you aren't building System D you are wasting your time"), but his biggest problems are the Peter Principle and Dunning-Kruger effect.  Having so much in common, of course Frap.doc and he get along splendidly!   Tongue
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo
...

As per Satoshi's "Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System": P2P is a 'prerequisite' for the system to 'enable' electronic cash.
It does not work the other way around.

But these spammers dont even care about decentralization, so boring.

The decentralization argument is bogus since it ignores Nielsen's law, Moore's law etc. http://www.nngroup.com/articles/law-of-bandwidth/ 1MB in 2008 when Bitcoin was first announced is actually equivalent to 17 MB today. (50% compounded per year for 7 years).

Wrong, wrong and more wrong.

The 1MB limit was put in place in 2010, not 2008. Actual bitcoin network upload speed (the real bottleneck) measurements show upload bandwidth for nodes at edge of network is growing at closer to 17-25%. (This disregards data caps for total bandwidth available also).
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
...

As per Satoshi's "Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System": P2P is a 'prerequisite' for the system to 'enable' electronic cash.
It does not work the other way around.

But these spammers dont even care about decentralization, so boring.

The decentralization argument is bogus since it ignores Nielsen's law, Moore's law etc. http://www.nngroup.com/articles/law-of-bandwidth/ 1MB in 2008 when Bitcoin was first announced is actually equivalent to 17 MB today. (50% compounded per year for 7 years).

"the decentralization argument is bogus since it ignores bogus laws observations"

derppp
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