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Topic: Bitcoin XT - Officially #REKT (also goes for BIP101 fraud) - page 56. (Read 378992 times)

legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283

Sweet!  I've been waiting years for a reason to refer to them as 'Bitstump'.  I always thought it would happen when they stole everyone's coins (vs. just having a little security hic-up which doubtlessly saved them a fortune on taxes.)  Switching to a stillborn hostile blockchain fork (and likely tainting all BTC which their victims held in their custody) should do the trick.

I never was a customer of Bitstump and never had any intention of being one, but if I had been I would get my BTC away from them while the getting is good (as I happened to have done with Mt. Gox thank God.)

legendary
Activity: 2282
Merit: 1050
Monero Core Team
...

As per Satoshi's "Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System": P2P is a 'prerequisite' for the system to 'enable' electronic cash.
It does not work the other way around.

But these spammers dont even care about decentralization, so boring.

The decentralization argument is bogus since it ignores Nielsen's law, Moore's law etc. http://www.nngroup.com/articles/law-of-bandwidth/ 1MB in 2008 when Bitcoin was first announced is actually equivalent to 17 MB today. (50% compounded per year for 7 years).
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo
https://blockchain.info/pools

slush throwing his weight around to prop up his BearSwamp buddies  Roll Eyes

price is rising too much?

seems coincidental that the last "Big Blockers" storms were whipped up when price rises were getting a head of steam also ... but who knows?

The BearSwamp is net short, by definition, they are a bitcoin deposit institution, and they know that every time price rises people remove large quantities of bitcoin from exchange deposits for safe-holding ... and one day if they are unable to meet those floods of withdraw requests into a wall of rising prices, well it is gonna be a bad day to be a BearSwamp customer, investor or employee. Btw, is Mike Hearn still doing the bitcoin holding audits for the BitSwamp?
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
Whatever happened to this guy: https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoinxt/comments/3uwpvh/the_real_reason_peter_r_talk_was_refused_from_his/cxik7cd

He always sounded somewhat butthurt by the work of Core devs but it seems he's fully embracing the dark side nowadays. How does one lose touch with reality so severely?
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
https://blockchain.info/pools

slush throwing his weight around to prop up his BearSwamp buddies  Roll Eyes

price is rising too much?
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo
https://blockchain.info/pools

slush throwing his weight around to prop up his BearSwamp buddies  Roll Eyes
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
An action which you could only contemplate due to the work of myself and others who believe that the BIP101 approach would be significantly damaging. I think it's likely that it will be increased in the future, but in a way that preserves Bitcoin's properties as a decenteralized P2P electronic cash, rather than disregarding them or undermining them.

As per Satoshi's "Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System": P2P is a 'prerequisite' for the system to 'enable' electronic cash.
It does not work the other way around.

But these spammers dont even care about decentralization, so boring.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
About mining pools and the presumption that they help with decentralization of the network, maybe it's time to re-consider these assumptions

staff
Activity: 4284
Merit: 8808
You keep saying that it is opt-in however it is only opt-in for the sender not the reciever,
Not so, the merchant can simply ignore the transaction until it is confirmed; as they already do for all manner of unusual, nonstandard, unconfirmed input transactions, etc. or otherwise their acceptance of zero conf is no more secure than RBF (if it ever is...) ... and doing this is relatively harmless, because Opt-in RBF transactions do not need to suffer significant confirmation delays.

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For me it is not even a question of greater expertise since it has also become about ideology relating to economics and politics, these are questions that most technical experts are not specifically trained to answer. I think that some of these more fundamental questions like the blocksize for instance are more concerned with politics and economics then computer science,
You are making a strong and unjustified assumption about the skills and background of people maintaining Bitcoin Core. I think you may be making the fallacy of assuming that a group excellent in a particular area must necessarily be weak in another specific area. The community, even the most active segment, is fairly large and diverse in many ways-- much more so then, for example, the persons working on XT*. Beyond the expected CS and distributed systems PHDs, the community includes people with expertise in mathematics, economics, financial markets, ... Peter Todd has a fine arts degree. Skepticism about the viability of the Bitcoin system absent effective meaningful block size limits can be found in peer reviewed academic publications in economics venues. Negative effects on mining fairness are both predicted by simulation, and borne out in field trials on test networks.

[*As a  vague yardstick, there are ~19 contributors to Bitcoin core with individually more commit count activity in the last six months then all contributors to XT had in both XT and Core combined. Commit count is a crappy metric and you can figure that is off by a large factor in either direction; but this isn't really a comparable; and this is in spite of non-stop attacks that make working on Bitcoin really demoralizing]

And beyond the expertise, we're speaking about a question where in the absence of perfect knowledge we conducted the experiment: We raise the soft blocksize target from 250k to 750k and saw tremendously negative effects: substantial declines in node count (in spite large growths in userbase; and to brag, somewhat heroic efforts to increase software performance), substantial increases in mining centralization, substantial increases in Bitcoin businesses relying on third party APIs rather than running nodes (hugely magnifying systemic risks). We've seen the result and it isn't pretty. And yet this information is ruthlessly attacked whenever it is pointed out-- I am routinely called a "bitcoin bear" even though I have a significant portion of my net worth tied up in it, simply for beveling in Bitcoin enough to be frank about the problems and limitations in it. Many people less convinced about Bitcoin's power and value than I and much more interested in the short term pump are unwilling to tolerate any discussion of challenges; and this creates a poisonous atmosphere which undermines the system's ability to heal and improve.

And today we are left at a point where the bandwidth consumption of an ordinary Bitcoin node just barely fits within the 350GB/mo transfer cap of a high end, "best available in most of the US" broadband service. We cannot know to what degree the load increase was causative, but none of the metrics had positive outcomes; and this is a reason to proceed only with the greatest care and consideration. Especially against a backdrop where Bitcoin's fundamental utility as a money are being attacked by efforts to regulate people's ability to transact and to blacklist coins; efforts that critically depend on the existence of centralized choke-points which scale beyond the system's scalability necessarily creates.

You're right though that the question is substantially political: A fully centralized system could easily handle gigabyte blocks with the work we've do to make megabyte blocks barely viable in a highly decentralized world. Such a system could also happily institute excess inflation, censor transactions, and other moves "for the good of the system" and "to assure widest adoption". If Bitcoin is to survive in the long run we just stand by the principles we believe in, and which make the system valuable in the first place. -- Even against substantial coercive pressure.  Otherwise the transparent system of autonomously enforced rules risks devolving into another politically controlled trust-based instrument of expedience that we see with legacy monetary instruments.

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Furthermore when blocks do fill up we now already have child pays for parent for unsticking transactions without the negative consequences
We do not. CPFP has substantial complexities that prevent it from actually working on the network today; and using it has large overheads. It will be a good additional tool to have, but it does not replace RBF.

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In regards to you saying that Gavin is not active in development I certainly do have a different perspective, considering
You can have a different perspective; but you cannot have your own facts. This is a question of objective fact. But you mistake my comment for an insult, it wasn't intended as one-- who am I to judge what someone else spends their time on? But rather an observation the it would have been surprising to see a contribution there.

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which can only be done significantly by increasing the blocksize.
An action which you could only contemplate due to the work of myself and others who believe that the BIP101 approach would be significantly damaging. I think it's likely that it will be increased in the future, but in a way only that preserves Bitcoin's properties as a decenteralized P2P electronic cash, rather than disregarding them or undermining them.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

The tide is turning. Check the votes. The stream will be unblocked; soonish.

Votes?

You believe Bitcoin is a democracy; how adorable.   Wink

You think talking about Bitcoin makes you part of it.  That's just precious.   Kiss

The only "tide" I see turning is the rump subs at /r/btc and /r/xt filling up with more than usual brigade-bait posts about Sensor Ships, /r/bitcoin, and /u/theymos.

There are so many 'Let's gossip about how awful that place I falsely said I was leaving is' shitposts about theymos's sub, they are actually displacing the biblical flood of RBF FUD and Peter Todd hatings.

 Cheesy

Actually if only they could stick to their own subs...

Surely by now they'd be a 'majority' or something? Grin

My favorite Gavinista dead-ender posts are the ones along the lines of 'This XT sub sucks because all we do is copy content from /r/bitcoin and complain about theymos.  We have to do better if we are to vanquish Evil Blockstream.'

And then they go right back to shoveling posts from the main Bitcoin sub and whining about Sensor Ships!

Priceless.

The /r/btc ban of Jorge Stolfi is producing solid laughs as well.  Lost it at "he must not have been Roger VERified."   Tongue
legendary
Activity: 2282
Merit: 1050
Monero Core Team
bitcoin =/= bitstamp

They are not the only ones that announced that they will follow BIP101.

What exactly does it mean when Bitstamp says they will 'follow' BIP101?

I mean, the BIP only addresses the generation of blocks, right?  And Bitstamp (as far as I know) does not generate any blocks.

I get the expression of support, but I don't see how they affect the adoption (or not) of BIP101 at all.


It means if there is a fork say BIP101 gets over 75% they will follow the BIP101 chain rather than the Core chain. Old (pre fork coins) will of course work on both chains.

Edit: So would all the other corporate BIP101 supporters. So if you wanted to pay with Bitcoin at a BitPay or Coinbase merchant you would have to use BIP101 coins or old pre fork coins but not the post fork Core coins.
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Peter R definitely seems to be trolling sometimes. I've stopped taking him seriously long ago. This visualization of BIP101 makes it even look worse than it actually is:
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Visa-2015-level transactions by 2032! Sounds awesome.
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Notice how it says it would take us until 2032 to reach the CURRENT ts/ps of Visa. LOL. Such blocksize increase is futile and will only centralize Bitcoin, this is a fact. We aren't getting nowhere without LN. Get a grip.
Handling the amount of Visa transactions of 2015, by 2032, will make Bitcoin obsolete then because it will not be able to handle enough volume (i.e. BIP101 solves nothing).
You claim that increasing the blocksize according to the schedule outlined in BIP101 solves nothing yet it does increases the throughput of the Bitcoin blockchain by a factor of eight thousand, compared to where it is now over a period of twenty years. Practically this makes a huge difference, the solution does not need to be perfect, be careful to not fall into the trap of the engineers nirvana fallacy.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002

The tide is turning. Check the votes. The stream will be unblocked; soonish.

Votes?

You believe Bitcoin is a democracy; how adorable.   Wink

You think talking about Bitcoin makes you part of it.  That's just precious.   Kiss

The only "tide" I see turning is the rump subs at /r/btc and /r/xt filling up with more than usual brigade-bait posts about Sensor Ships, /r/bitcoin, and /u/theymos.

There are so many 'Let's gossip about how awful that place I falsely said I was leaving is' shitposts about theymos's sub, they are actually displacing the biblical flood of RBF FUD and Peter Todd hatings.

 Cheesy

Actually if only they could stick to their own subs...

Surely by now they'd be a 'majority' or something? Grin
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
The moronero shills shouldn't laugh to early. The chance, that the community will be unable to respond to the blockstream attack (change a 'Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System' into a settlement layer for the banksters) is miniscule.

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3ush79/then_they_fight_you/

XT is 100% in the "being laughed at" stage, especially after NotXT literally made a mockery of it.

Your technical illiteracy is evident when you naively propose a 'Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System' based on a blockchain can possibly scale to fiat levels of tx per second.

Hal Finney already revealed the endgame:
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"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010

Please note it's not an intended replacement for PayPal or Starbucks gift cards.
I suppose Satashi Nakamoto must have been technically illiterate according to your reasoning. Since a "Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System" is the title of the Bitcoin whitepaper after all.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

The tide is turning. Check the votes. The stream will be unblocked; soonish.

Votes?

You believe Bitcoin is a democracy; how adorable.   Wink

You think talking about Bitcoin makes you part of it.  That's just precious.   Kiss

The only "tide" I see turning is the rump subs at /r/btc and /r/xt filling up with more than usual brigade-bait posts about Sensor Ships, /r/bitcoin, and /u/theymos.

There are so many 'Let's gossip about how awful that place I falsely said I was leaving is' shitposts about theymos's sub, they are actually displacing the biblical flood of RBF FUD and Peter Todd hatings.

 Cheesy
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
Cool, let's make the blocksize huge guaranteeing that the nodes are run by datacenters so goverments can control Bitcoin. Really cool way to ruin the project.

Don't worry, the loud nobodies on reddit in no way, shape or form constitute any kind of economically relevant entity with regards to Bitcoin.

Most of these zealots don't control an iota of hashing power or any significant amount of BTC.

Chinese are responsible for at least 50% of the ecosystem and they couldn't care less about the hijacking attempts of a couple of US corporations
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1028
Cool, let's make the blocksize huge guaranteeing that the nodes are run by datacenters so goverments can control Bitcoin. Really cool way to ruin the project.
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo

I would have serious doubts that bitstamp even runs one single full node of their own ... probably outsourced.

Who cares what the crooked bearswamp wants, they have been allowing some seriously crappy stuff to happen on their "exchange" since mid-2014? Not much of it good for bitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
bitcoin =/= bitstamp

They are not the only ones that announced that they will follow BIP101.

What exactly does it mean when Bitstamp says they will 'follow' BIP101?

I mean, the BIP only addresses the generation of blocks, right?  And Bitstamp (as far as I know) does not generate any blocks.

I get the expression of support, but I don't see how they affect the adoption (or not) of BIP101 at all.



It means nothing but Two Cans And String Supporting XTCoin Revival



TL;DR: "There is no word on any potential plans by Bitstamp to add a third can or more string."
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 3000
Terminated.
Peter R definitely seems to be trolling sometimes. I've stopped taking him seriously long ago. This visualization of BIP101 makes it even look worse than it actually is:
Quote
Visa-2015-level transactions by 2032! Sounds awesome.
Quote
Notice how it says it would take us until 2032 to reach the CURRENT ts/ps of Visa. LOL. Such blocksize increase is futile and will only centralize Bitcoin, this is a fact. We aren't getting nowhere without LN. Get a grip.

Handling the amount of Visa transactions of 2015, by 2032, will make Bitcoin obsolete then because it will not be able to handle enough volume (i.e. BIP101 solves nothing).
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