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Topic: Bitcoin XT - Officially #REKT (also goes for BIP101 fraud) - page 72. (Read 378992 times)

legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
--------------->¿?
It means now pools can start colluding negotiating with exchanges to priorities their transactions regardless of the fees. It once again encourage centralization competition of pools and discourage bootstraps a fee market.

FTFY.  So many errors in such a small space, like a 5th grader trying to do calculus despite not understanding what most of the symbols mean.

XT  Embarrassed

Unlimited  Roll Eyes

Quoting myself:

No one with a right mind think it's a good idea [...]

 Smiley
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
It means now pools can start colluding negotiating with exchanges to priorities their transactions regardless of the fees. It once again encourage centralization competition of pools and discourage bootstraps a fee market.

FTFY.  So many errors in such a small space, like a 5th grader trying to do calculus despite not understanding what most of the symbols mean.

XT  Embarrassed

Unlimited  Roll Eyes
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
--------------->¿?
It means now pool can start colluding with exchanges to priorities their transactions regardless of the fees. It once again encourage centralization of pools and discourage a fee market.

Indeed. We should be disappointed with this, though I don't see how this should affect the block size debate. The issue here is the fact that we're even satisfied with a pool centralising the priority of transactions and not allowing the Bitcoin protocol and fees to dictate it.

No one with a right mind think it's a good idea but it has everything to do with the block size and it's the first symptom of small blocks being full:

Quote
Samson Mow, BTCC's chief operating officer, said: "BlockPriority is a unique and innovative service available exclusively to BTCC users. It's also a means of mitigating potential impact to our customers from the lack of progress on blocksize increases."
legendary
Activity: 1134
Merit: 1118
It means now pool can start colluding with exchanges to priorities their transactions regardless of the fees. It once again encourage centralization of pools and discourage a fee market.

Indeed. We should be disappointed with this, though I don't see how this should affect the block size debate. The issue here is the fact that we're even satisfied with a pool centralising the priority of transactions and not allowing the Bitcoin protocol and fees to dictate it.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
--------------->¿?
Small blocks will lead to fee market!

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/bitcoin-giant-btcc-launches-priority-blockchain-transactions-its-customers-1529730

lol NOPE.

Quote
BlockPriority prioritises all BTCC's customers' transactions, including those who pay zero transaction fees. Customers who pay lower transaction fees on other exchanges or wallet services may have to wait before the bitcoin network confirms their transactions, said BTCC.

Don't see where the problem is.

Regular users needing prioritized transactions can simply pay higher fee.


It means now pool can start colluding with exchanges to priorities their transactions regardless of the fees. It once again encourage centralization of pools and discourage a fee market.

The Todd seems to be surprised about the centralization effects of the 1 MB joke:

https://bitco.in/forum/threads/gold-collapsing-bitcoin-up.16/page-113#post-4035

Cool story Bro, but who cares about withdrawing from some exchange 10min faster?



You completely miss the point but that's not quite surprising.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
Small blocks will lead to fee market!

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/bitcoin-giant-btcc-launches-priority-blockchain-transactions-its-customers-1529730

lol NOPE.

Quote
BlockPriority prioritises all BTCC's customers' transactions, including those who pay zero transaction fees. Customers who pay lower transaction fees on other exchanges or wallet services may have to wait before the bitcoin network confirms their transactions, said BTCC.

Don't see where the problem is.

Regular users needing prioritized transactions can simply pay higher fee.


It means now pool can start colluding with exchanges to priorities their transactions regardless of the fees. It once again encourage centralization of pools and discourage a fee market.

The Todd seems to be surprised about the centralization effects of the 1 MB joke:

https://bitco.in/forum/threads/gold-collapsing-bitcoin-up.16/page-113#post-4035

Cool story Bro, but who cares about withdrawing from some exchange 10min faster?

legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1004
Small blocks will lead to fee market!

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/bitcoin-giant-btcc-launches-priority-blockchain-transactions-its-customers-1529730

lol NOPE.

Quote
BlockPriority prioritises all BTCC's customers' transactions, including those who pay zero transaction fees. Customers who pay lower transaction fees on other exchanges or wallet services may have to wait before the bitcoin network confirms their transactions, said BTCC.

Don't see where the problem is.

Regular users needing prioritized transactions can simply pay higher fee.


It means now pool can start colluding with exchanges to priorities their transactions regardless of the fees. It once again encourage centralization of pools and discourage a fee market.

The Todd seems to be surprised about the centralization effects of the 1 MB joke:

https://bitco.in/forum/threads/gold-collapsing-bitcoin-up.16/page-113#post-4035
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Bitcoin should not have any leadership, which is why the development needs to become more distributed.
Do not be confused: The fact that most of the dozens of developers choose to collaborate to build a stronger and better Bitcoin implementation than we could build alone does not make development non-distributed.

The process is Bitcoin is one that amplify the independence of developers generally, even beyond the level of open source software, -- including down to the fact that multiple developers must collaborate to produce releases (so we do not just end up with only one or two person who knows how), that any user can produce the same binaries that we do, that we do not have an auto-update process, and so on.  Many more complex features begin life in developers personal forks (which exist, though most don't make releases from them intended for the public (although Luke-Jr has for years)). Our software licensing enables developers to go off and do their own thing based on the codebase, even if the original authors strongly disagree with them.

When you say stuff like this, given the permissive open source software and development process what you're effectively saying is that developers should cooperate less and instead expend their efforts on more duplicated work.

I don't think that is a way to make Bitcoin successful. But I can think of a few parties that would benefit from that outcome...
Thank you for responding, I do respect much of the work you have done within Bitcoin Core.

Even if the internal governance structure of Core is as perfect as it can be it does not change that this still represents a singular governance and organizational structure which is ultimately controlled by just a few people. By extension having multiple implementations being worked on in tandem would in effect distribute this power of development more, since decentralization does exist on a spectrum. This would also allow for more freedom of choice which would further lead to the Bitcoin protocol better reflecting the will of the economic majority.

That the Bitcoin protocol should reflect the will of the economic majority however should be considered a subjective ideology. When there are fundamental ideological disagreements this type of split might be justified considering that one side of this disagreement is unable to have their choice reflected in Core.

I understand that distributing/decentralizing development more would slow down development. In the same sense that more totalitarian forms of governance can reach decisions quicker and more efficiently compared to more democratic systems. I would argue however that even though this would cause development to slow down, it would still be worth it considering that the protocol would better reflect the will of the economic majority. Especially considering that some of the issues that the governance of Bitcoin or body politic needs to decide on now and into the future are fundamentally ideological in nature, which should not be decided on by a small group of technical experts.

Cooperation will still be important, since in such a future different implementations would still need to negotiate consensus critical changes depending on how the miners vote. Since it would not be in the interests of everyone involved to split the network unless there are fundamental ideological differences that can not be resolved. Much of the work Core has done recently surely would not be rejected by other implementations, it adds value to the entire Bitcoin ecosystem so I do thank you for that and I do appreciate your contribution.

For some issues however like the blocksize specifically, it does seem like some other alternative implementations are willing to implement this change sooner then Core is willing to. So when it comes to fundamental disagreements like the blocksize in this case at least having multiple implementations might speed up the implementation of what the economic majority wants. More then seventy five percent of the miners are voting for an increased blocksize after all.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
--------------->¿?
Small blocks will lead to fee market!

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/bitcoin-giant-btcc-launches-priority-blockchain-transactions-its-customers-1529730

lol NOPE.

Quote
BlockPriority prioritises all BTCC's customers' transactions, including those who pay zero transaction fees. Customers who pay lower transaction fees on other exchanges or wallet services may have to wait before the bitcoin network confirms their transactions, said BTCC.

Don't see where the problem is.

Regular users needing prioritized transactions can simply pay higher fee.


It means now pool can start colluding with exchanges to priorities their transactions regardless of the fees. It once again encourage centralization of pools and discourage a fee market.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
Small blocks will lead to fee market!

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/bitcoin-giant-btcc-launches-priority-blockchain-transactions-its-customers-1529730

lol NOPE.

Quote
BlockPriority prioritises all BTCC's customers' transactions, including those who pay zero transaction fees. Customers who pay lower transaction fees on other exchanges or wallet services may have to wait before the bitcoin network confirms their transactions, said BTCC.

Don't see where the problem is.

Regular users needing prioritized transactions can simply pay higher fee.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
--------------->¿?
Small blocks will lead to fee market!

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/bitcoin-giant-btcc-launches-priority-blockchain-transactions-its-customers-1529730

lol NOPE.

Quote
BlockPriority prioritises all BTCC's customers' transactions, including those who pay zero transaction fees. Customers who pay lower transaction fees on other exchanges or wallet services may have to wait before the bitcoin network confirms their transactions, said BTCC.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
Haha classic Mikey:
Quote
They are interested in Ethereum due to its more powerful scripting language (and, I suspect, its better reputation, as Ethereum has not yet been sullied by people using it for trading illegal things).

https://archive.is/l43uv#selection-11347.0-11347.200

Ah yes, the exquisite hypocrisy of banksters who wallow in oceans of filthy lucre, and yet are somehow far too precious to sully themselves with nasty crypto.

 Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

They seem to be using the Hegelian paradigm wherein the State is the font of virtue and perfection, and whereby all fiat's sins are washed away with the blood of the taxpayer and conscript.

Given that, [email protected] is a great fit for Team Fiat (certainly much better than for Team Cypherpunk).
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1014
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
I wonder what will some of these people need to simply admit/realise they were wrong (or they are in favour of ending with cypherpunk Bitcoin).
I had a long-winded explanation, but suffice to say that their children will understand things they never could.
donator
Activity: 980
Merit: 1000
I wonder what will some of these people need to simply admit/realise they were wrong (or they are in favour of ending with cypherpunk Bitcoin).
legendary
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1009
https://archive.is/C0sv5#selection-4053.0-4065.64
Quote
The "possibilities" and even opinions were censored on all most common places used by the community.
Users where even threatened and banned just for writing their opinions.
You know that this happened, but you still use freely the word "choice".
I'm amused that a staff member still doesn't understand the difference between censorship and moderation...

May I be iCEBREAKER for a moment?

Quote

 Embarrassed The "possibilities" and even opinions were censored on all most common places used by the community. Cry
 Embarrassed Users where even threatened and banned just for writing their opinions. Cry
 Embarrassed You know that this happened, but you still use freely the word "choice". Cry
legendary
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1009
Bitcoin should not have any leadership, which is why the development needs to become more distributed.
Do not be confused: The fact that most of the dozens of developers choose to collaborate to build a stronger and better Bitcoin implementation than we could build alone does not make development non-distributed.
I have tried explaining that to him several times, I guess I failed at that. The fact that developers choose to cooperate the way they are doing today is not only quite rational, but also it's their free choice.
donator
Activity: 980
Merit: 1000
Haha classic Mikey:
Quote
They are interested in Ethereum due to its more powerful scripting language (and, I suspect, its better reputation, as Ethereum has not yet been sullied by people using it for trading illegal things).

https://archive.is/l43uv#selection-11347.0-11347.200
full member
Activity: 132
Merit: 100
willmathforcrypto.com
...
When you say stuff like this, given the permissive open source software and development process what you're effectively saying is that developers should cooperate less and instead expend their efforts on more duplicated work.

I don't think that is a way to make Bitcoin successful. But I can think of a few parties that would benefit from that outcome...

Sorry, but I can't resist asking. In the reddit comment linked above, part of an old email to Hearn was quoted as saying:

Quote
Your recent actions to intentionally bring about a substantive split in the Bitcoin ledger is an attack on the Bitcoin system and risk causing extraordinary harm to its users. Your conduct towards me in public has been defamatory and unprofessional. Your presentation to the public is misleading, in particular conflating software forks with splitting the Bitcoin consensus state. I believe that you know that it is misleading and are doing so intentionally, but even if not, you are responsible for the misunderstandings that you have created. If what I am told about your affiliations is correct, your failure to disclose them clearly is unethical.

Is it known what "affiliations" are being referred to here? Is it the recent announcement that Hearn is joining R3CEV or something else?

(PS: It's good to see nullc posting again.)
staff
Activity: 4284
Merit: 8808
Bitcoin should not have any leadership, which is why the development needs to become more distributed.
Do not be confused: The fact that most of the dozens of developers choose to collaborate to build a stronger and better Bitcoin implementation than we could build alone does not make development non-distributed.

The process is Bitcoin is one that amplify the independence of developers generally, even beyond the level of open source software, -- including down to the fact that multiple developers must collaborate to produce releases (so we do not just end up with only one or two person who knows how), that any user can produce the same binaries that we do, that we do not have an auto-update process, and so on.  Many more complex features begin life in developers personal forks (which exist, though most don't make releases from them intended for the public (although Luke-Jr has for years)). Our software licensing enables developers to go off and do their own thing based on the codebase, even if the original authors strongly disagree with them.

When you say stuff like this, given the permissive open source software and development process what you're effectively saying is that developers should cooperate less and instead expend their efforts on more duplicated work.

I don't think that is a way to make Bitcoin successful. But I can think of a few parties that would benefit from that outcome...
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 3000
Terminated.
I think it is pretty much impossible to have consensus with the ones believing 1MB is perfect and wait for the fee market to develop. Democracy solves this problem by force to make minority content, but in trully free enviroment where you have no power to force minority to accept majority consensus, the best way is ignore the minority and go its way. The idea of multiple scaling client interpretations + the unchanged 1MB core and let people+business+miner choose what wins should be done after no wide consensus is found soon how to face the scaling problem imo.
You don't let people without a technical background decide on their own(!) where we are headed. If we let that happen, then Bitcoin is going to have a short future. The developers (or other 'experts') should clearly present the risks and benefits of each implementation and then the majority should decide. Besides, only a few people want 1MB to stay, so you can stop using this as an arguement. Most want a increase in one way or another (be it 2,4,8 Mb, dynamic/ other). It's just too easy to manipulate the majority here (pretty much everywhere) because of the lack of technical knowledge.


Again, there is no problem at the moment. My transaction last night confirmed in 4 minutes.
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