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Topic: Bitcoin XT - Officially #REKT (also goes for BIP101 fraud) - page 73. (Read 378992 times)

full member
Activity: 174
Merit: 100
Bitcoin should not have any leadership, which is why the development needs to become more distributed.
This is why we require consensus within Core. That's distributed enough. Hearn on the other hand does not like the idea of consensus, but rather one of a dictator. We have enough implementations at the moment. If we had more we'd stall the development even further.


I think it is pretty much impossible to have consensus with the ones believing 1MB is perfect and wait for the fee market to develop. Democracy solves this problem by force to make minority content, but in trully free enviroment where you have no power to force minority to accept majority consensus, the best way is ignore the minority and go its way. The idea of multiple scaling client interpretations + the unchanged 1MB core and let people+business+miners choose what wins should be done after no wide consensus is found soon how to face the scaling problem imo.
donator
Activity: 980
Merit: 1000
So now jtoomim's presentation in Scaling Bitcoin HK will be on an officially defunct project. LOL.

Also, the irony is lost on Peter tRoll: https://archive.is/3Czr5#selection-2211.0-2253.94
Quote
Congratulations! It is great to see your ongoing commitment to making bigger blocks a reality.
donator
Activity: 980
Merit: 1000
So much wreckage in that thread https://archive.is/C0sv5

You almost feel sorry for that lot reading that.
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1004
Bitcoin should not have any leadership, which is why the development needs to become more distributed.
This is why we require consensus within Core. That's distributed enough.

Consensus with Blockstream core is distributed enough. Joke of the year.
sr. member
Activity: 277
Merit: 257
And now Mike Hearn joins the bankers at REC3V and their blockchains.

"Conflict of interest" anyone?

If he can't get his way, and he won't, he will become a "blockchain technologies" person and try attacking Bitcoin from the outside instead of the inside. Pushing for making non-policeable cryptos illegal will be on his agenda sooner or later.

lol go look up his proof of passport scheme he was trying to push on miners. Basically miners wouldn't produce valid blocks unless they had a valid passport for govt agencies to see who is mining.
I'm aware, and the redlisting "idea". His ideas often go in these directions, including his node prioritization schemes used in XT.

But if he seems he's hit a wall in his undermining of Bitcoin's decentralisation and censorship-resistance from within development, then he will try from the outside. I think it's a matter of time. Gavin already joined the "alliance" and is actively working in the policing of Bitcoin. Talk about conflict of interest.
More ad hominem from the usual suspects. I do not care who writes the code, what matters is what is in the code itself. Even if the code was written by the devil himself or any other monster from the annals of history, I would still support it, because the code that is within BIP101 does represent the best path for Bitcoin going into the future, compared to the alternatives.
Sorry, it is important because if XT would succeed Gavin and Hearn would be the most powerful people in Bitcoin. Xt 101 is not just about code its also about change of leadership. We have to analyse the leaders.
Bitcoin should not have any leadership, which is why the development needs to become more distributed.

It will always have various leaders of some sort, with more or less power.


Quote
Because instead of having centralized top down control by Core we can have several implementations of the Bitcoin protocol instead which people would then be free to choose from. We would not be moving from one dictatorship to another, since we would be in effect distributing this power, it would more closely resemble a congress at such a point.

Here is an example of what decentralization of development could look like:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.12959461

Centralised top down control by Hearn or Gavin is better? This is the only choice presented. Core needs to die, thats what Mike Hearn says. He is correct, Gavin-Hearn need a majority of network. They need to replace core, for 101/Xt to come into effect.

If we have split divided implementations then 101 does not come into effect.

In terms of pure development, other implementations and developers are always welcomed and aided by the core team.

 What counts tho is whose code people run. They need to completely stop running core and run XT. At that point we have even more centralised development.  

The same identical situation except core team is replaced by Hearn/Gavin. How else can fork come about? Coinbase said this is what they want. Please specify what you envision and how it will come about through everybody using XT Not just slogan 'decentralise development'.



P.S. Re the graphic. That is a joke, the other implementations are not real implementations just copies of the same implementation who almost nobody runs or will run. They have no developer capable of writing core code. And will need to run the same protocol code as XT even if they do have backing, for fork to come into effect, its a consensus network lol.

 What Peter R says, is more theory that has no connection to reality. That will not happen. The only possible thing is enough exchanges run Xt/101 and Gavin is placed as head developer replacing core. I.e. we are left with even more centralised development. Unlikely (hopefully) but realistic.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 3000
Terminated.
Bitcoin should not have any leadership, which is why the development needs to become more distributed.
This is why we require consensus within Core. That's distributed enough. Hearn on the other hand does not like the idea of consensus, but rather one of a dictator. We have enough implementations at the moment. If we had more we'd stall the development even further.
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Whoa when I predicted Mike to jump from Bitcoin into bankster "blockchain technologies" to attack it from outside, I didn't expect it to be within a few hours of saying it.
The funny thing is when he talks about centralisation due to lightning or blockstream, when its so transparent that he does not really care. He just uses the arguments to further his agenda.

The person who proposes blacklists, passports and works for banks suddenly cares so much about decentralisation (as it happens when it suits his argument).



I am still to understand how switching from many core developers working in consensus (and mike thinks core needs to be gone) ...

is more centralised ...

then him or Gavin backed by Coinbase as benevolent dictators of the main reference client.

Whuut?? Can somebody explain this??


Sure its not about Mike gaining power for himself, its just about decentralisation of development ... by having it under him  Roll Eyes.
Because instead of having centralized top down control by Core we can have several implementations of the Bitcoin protocol instead which people would then be free to choose from. We would not be moving from one dictatorship to another, since we would be in effect distributing this power, it would more closely resemble a congress at such a point.

Here is an example of what decentralization of development could look like:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.12959461
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
And now Mike Hearn joins the bankers at REC3V and their blockchains.

"Conflict of interest" anyone?

If he can't get his way, and he won't, he will become a "blockchain technologies" person and try attacking Bitcoin from the outside instead of the inside. Pushing for making non-policeable cryptos illegal will be on his agenda sooner or later.

lol go look up his proof of passport scheme he was trying to push on miners. Basically miners wouldn't produce valid blocks unless they had a valid passport for govt agencies to see who is mining.
I'm aware, and the redlisting "idea". His ideas often go in these directions, including his node prioritization schemes used in XT.

But if he seems he's hit a wall in his undermining of Bitcoin's decentralisation and censorship-resistance from within development, then he will try from the outside. I think it's a matter of time. Gavin already joined the "alliance" and is actively working in the policing of Bitcoin. Talk about conflict of interest.
More ad hominem from the usual suspects. I do not care who writes the code, what matters is what is in the code itself. Even if the code was written by the devil himself or any other monster from the annals of history, I would still support it, because the code that is within BIP101 does represent the best path for Bitcoin going into the future, compared to the alternatives.
Sorry, it is important because if XT would succeed Gavin and Hearn would be the most powerful people in Bitcoin. Xt 101 is not just about code its also about change of leadership. We have to analyse the leaders.
Bitcoin should not have any leadership, which is why the development needs to become more distributed.
donator
Activity: 1617
Merit: 1012
Even if the code was written by the devil himself or any other monster from the annals of history, I would still support it, because the code that is within BIP101 does represent the best path for Bitcoin going into the future, compared to the alternatives.

If we went back 12 years ago when the best Intel CPU was the single-core 3.0 GHz Pentium Northwood, would you have imagined that the best Intel CPUs of 2015 were still only running in the 3.x GHz range?

To me BIP101 is analogous to the Intel product planners back in 2003 declaring that in 2015 Intel flagship CPUs would be single-core Pentium Northwoods and running at 300 GHz. Don't worry about heat --- the process node improvement from 130nm to 22nm should take care of everything!

Instead over the years Intel has added multiple-cores, multiple execution pipelines per core, larger caches, more caches, improved branch prediction logic, and so on and so forth, but  kept the max core clock frequency the same at around 3 GHz.

Saying that BIP101 is the best path forward is similar to those self-proclaimed experts posting in overclocking forums back in 2003 that Intel's product strategy to go multi-core was retarded and they should just be focused on increasing GHz by a fixed percentage for each product cycle.

legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
That was utter destruction of Mike by Greg, in that whole exchange.

GMAX is back, and boy is he pissed!

*epic pwnage ensues*

Quote
nullc

You're free to have your own repository-- and you do in fact; you should try working on it instead of telling other people what to do in their own repositories for a change. I don't have to like what you do, and I can stridently recommend people not run it-- as is always the case; but you remain free to work on whatever you like and think is most important (and even benefit from my work too). Too bad you don't seem to respect that by the same token others do not have to do what you want.

Ha, gmax just told Mikey to go shitcode on his XT shitrepo, and stop pestering the important people at the adult table.

sr. member
Activity: 277
Merit: 257
This whole comment of Gmax laying the beats on Mike deserves its own post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoinxt/comments/3t21dh/dangerous_homebrew_cryptography_in_blockstream/cx586r1

Quote
In your post you appear to be blaming other people for the failure gain adoption for the Bitcoin XT agenda. Success or lack thereof on this matter is your responsibility not anyone else. You've already gone way over the top on the deceptive and hostile rhetoric, making low and outright misleading arguments, constant appeals to the press after almost universally the technical community analyzed and rejected your extreme positions, all to little effect-- while for the most part we've just quietly endured the defamation and insults. Against dozens of press articles and blog posts you've written attacking me, the developers of Bitcoin core, the many people at my company, etc.-- you will find nothing like that from me (just some arguments with you 1:1 in Reddit threads and mailing lists). You are not going to bludgeon or badger people into performing changes they believe are harmful in their own software; not by yourself and not through any number of violent threat-issuing sockmasters that your passionate blog posts reliably stir up. You are already free to copy changes made to Bitcoin Core, please stop acting like that gives you license to dictate what goes into it and how we spend our time. At this point I don't think anything more productive than this can be said: If you don't like it, then I beg of you please don't use it just as you have been insisting to others that they shouldn't.

That was utter destruction of Mike by Greg, in that whole exchange.


Mike continues  the dishonest lie (one of many) that forking core or alternative implementations are criticised, when its only forking the blockchain that is criticised.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
This whole comment of Gmax laying the beats on Mike deserves its own post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoinxt/comments/3t21dh/dangerous_homebrew_cryptography_in_blockstream/cx586r1

Quote
In your post you appear to be blaming other people for the failure gain adoption for the Bitcoin XT agenda. Success or lack thereof on this matter is your responsibility not anyone else. You've already gone way over the top on the deceptive and hostile rhetoric, making low and outright misleading arguments, constant appeals to the press after almost universally the technical community analyzed and rejected your extreme positions, all to little effect-- while for the most part we've just quietly endured the defamation and insults. Against dozens of press articles and blog posts you've written attacking me, the developers of Bitcoin core, the many people at my company, etc.-- you will find nothing like that from me (just some arguments with you 1:1 in Reddit threads and mailing lists). You are not going to bludgeon or badger people into performing changes they believe are harmful in their own software; not by yourself and not through any number of violent threat-issuing sockmasters that your passionate blog posts reliably stir up. You are already free to copy changes made to Bitcoin Core, please stop acting like that gives you license to dictate what goes into it and how we spend our time. At this point I don't think anything more productive than this can be said: If you don't like it, then I beg of you please don't use it just as you have been insisting to others that they shouldn't.
sr. member
Activity: 277
Merit: 257
Whoa when I predicted Mike to jump from Bitcoin into bankster "blockchain technologies" to attack it from outside, I didn't expect it to be within a few hours of saying it.

The funny thing is when he talks about centralisation due to lightning or blockstream, when its so transparent that he does not really care. He just uses the arguments to further his agenda.

The person who proposes blacklists, passports and works for banks suddenly cares so much about decentralisation (as it happens when it suits his argument).



I am still to understand how switching from many core developers working in consensus (and mike thinks core needs to be gone) ...

is more centralised ...

then him or Gavin backed by Coinbase as benevolent dictators of the main reference client.

Whuut?? Can somebody explain this??


Sure its not about Mike gaining power for himself, its just about decentralisation of development ... by having it under him  Roll Eyes.
donator
Activity: 980
Merit: 1000
Whoa when I predicted Mike to jump from Bitcoin into bankster "blockchain technologies" to attack it from outside, I didn't expect it to be within a few hours of saying it.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
Many are missing that Bitcoin can be useful to many people and entities while it is decentralized.

So it can even be useful also to banks.

There is just one entity on the entire Bitcoin system that gains from its current centralisation.

consensus is the new centralization.

the Bitcoin community is united in getting rid of deception artists like Mike Hearn and so far this block size debate has proved successful in purging the most toxic actors out of this ecosystem.

what a fantastic time to be alive, don't you think  Smiley
staff
Activity: 4270
Merit: 1209
I support freedom of choice
Many are missing that Bitcoin can be useful to many people and entities while it is decentralized.

So it can even be useful also to banks.

There is just one entity on the entire Bitcoin system that gains from its current centralisation.

Currently the worst attack that can happen (and maybe it's already happening) against Bitcoin, it just choosing to not using it and using something else.
sr. member
Activity: 277
Merit: 257
And now Mike Hearn joins the bankers at REC3V and their blockchains.

"Conflict of interest" anyone?

If he can't get his way, and he won't, he will become a "blockchain technologies" person and try attacking Bitcoin from the outside instead of the inside. Pushing for making non-policeable cryptos illegal will be on his agenda sooner or later.

lol go look up his proof of passport scheme he was trying to push on miners. Basically miners wouldn't produce valid blocks unless they had a valid passport for govt agencies to see who is mining.
I'm aware, and the redlisting "idea". His ideas often go in these directions, including his node prioritization schemes used in XT.

But if he seems he's hit a wall in his undermining of Bitcoin's decentralisation and censorship-resistance from within development, then he will try from the outside. I think it's a matter of time. Gavin already joined the "alliance" and is actively working in the policing of Bitcoin. Talk about conflict of interest.
More ad hominem from the usual suspects. I do not care who writes the code, what matters is what is in the code itself. Even if the code was written by the devil himself or any other monster from the annals of history, I would still support it, because the code that is within BIP101 does represent the best path for Bitcoin going into the future, compared to the alternatives.
Sorry, it is important because if XT would succeed Gavin and Hearn would be the most powerful people in Bitcoin. Xt 101 is not just about code its also about change of leadership. We have to analyse the leaders.
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1004
Nothing to see here. The cheerleaders of the Judean Front National still believe to represent Bitcoin. Unbelievable.
Even in the censored subreddit Mike gets the most upvotes.

... sounds like you're another footsoldier for BankCoin, report to Hearn for duties.

BS. A BankCoin is no competition to a permissionless p2p coin.

Tell that to Mike, he's given up on Bitcoin already.

No.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks
Nothing to see here. The cheerleaders of the Judean Front National still believe to represent Bitcoin. Unbelievable.
Even in the censored subreddit Mike gets the most upvotes.

... sounds like you're another footsoldier for BankCoin, report to Hearn for duties.

BS. A BankCoin is no competition to a permissionless p2p coin.

Tell that to Mike, he's given up on Bitcoin already.
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1004
Nothing to see here. The cheerleaders of the Judean Front National still believe to represent Bitcoin. Unbelievable.
Even in the censored subreddit Mike gets the most upvotes.

... sounds like you're another footsoldier for BankCoin, report to Hearn for duties.

BS. A BankCoin is no competition to a permissionless p2p coin.
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