bitcoin.co.th trading suspended - page 2.

Stn

full member

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We should not be very hard on Dave. Obviously he didn't make all this noise on purpose. Yellow press did. He seems another naive westerner newcomer to Asia lost in translation. The only his guilt I see that he went overprotective. Instead of admitting his misunderstanding he was going deep and deep in to quagmire of silly arguments. Like this one.

Quote from: dave111223 on July 31, 2013, 09:41:04 AM

...but why ask the business to stop operation if they are operating perfectly legally?

Then why go at all to the Bank for license if they are operating legally?

Dave you put the Bank in bad situation asking it to license what it's not able to license. First mistake.

You asked for money exchange license though your operation falling into e-money field, which is licensed differently. Second mistake.

But even if you asked for e-money license it won't be granted to you as the current regulation assumes underwriter entity and other traditional stuff which is not applicable for Bitcoin. You (or your lawer) didn't learn money related regulation prior to application, didn't seek for consultancy. Yes, it is not your duty to study laws, but it was your third mistake.

dave111223

legendary

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Quote from: ?? on ??

However can you tell us that you do not have the power to adjust the message on that page? Wink

I bet you can and that you are just trying to play games?

No untrue statements eh? Nice use of a double negative, I guess you did that because you can not say all statements are true?

Your spreading FUD and doing so after getting the public correction from the Bank is very troubling.

Thanks Dave for your support of BTC in Thailand.

Yes I have power to "adjust" text on many websites, but would not consider doing so without the site owners consent obviously.

Yes I can say "All statements are true", as I have said all along. Which part of the statements are talking about that were "public corrected"? It seems to me the bank statements correlated with the details in the website statement, but they chose to omit reference to the direct details of bitcoin legality.

Which parts of the website statement were "corrected"?

greyhawk

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Quote from: dave111223 on August 01, 2013, 05:38:45 AM

The website is not owned by me, it is owned by Bitcoin Co. Ltd., of which I hold no ownership. There are no untrue statements on the website.

Laffo,

let's put an end to this charade.

You are David Barnes of Boca Raton, Florida
- http://profiles.wordpress.org/dave111223/
- http://advancedstyle.com
- http://www.whois.com/whois/advancedstyle.com

A whois of Bitcoin.co.th lists one "Tachpicha ketmayoon Barnes",
an obvious pseudonym you have repeatedly used (and tried but failed
to hide behind whoisguard) on your various other failed websites such
as the fake soccer shirts store and the cheap plastic jewelry store,
all connected through their design by advancedstyle.com too.

bitcoin.in.th (a redirect to bitcoin.co.th) has an rname property of
"rname: dave.advancedstyle.com"

Explain again how you have no control over the site?

dave111223

legendary

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: darkmule on August 01, 2013, 05:23:49 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

You were caught in a huge lie.

He was caught making a statement that turns out not to have much factual foundation. (It may ultimately turn out to have been true, or at least partly true.)

I haven't seen any reason to believe he was deliberately lying. Why would he?

I'm going to assume he was either repeating what his translator or American lawyer told him. So I guess ignorance, as he seems to really think BTC still is illegal for some reason even though it was highly unlogical to think that if he had the slightest clue how the legals system works here in Thailand.

Making statements with no factual foundation is pretty much exactly what happened. The fact that he left this untrue statement on his website, when he has been given correcting information by the bank is highly troubling in my mind.

Why not correct your website Dave?

The website is not owned by me, it is owned by Bitcoin Co. Ltd., of which I hold no ownership. There are no untrue statements on the website.

vokain

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Merit: 1019

Quote from: darkmule on August 01, 2013, 05:19:02 AM

Quote from: vokain on July 31, 2013, 10:45:52 AM

Quote

At the conclusion of the meeting senior members of the Foreign Exchange Administration and Policy Department advised that due to lack of existing applicable laws, capital controls and the fact that Bitcoin straddles multiple financial facets the following Bitcoin activities are illegal in Thailand:

Buying Bitcoins
Selling Bitcoins
Buying any goods or services in exchange for Bitcoins
Selling any goods or services for Bitcoins
Sending Bitcoins to anyone located outside of Thailand
Receiving Bitcoins from anyone located outside of Thailand

Can we just agree that this might be what they said to him, that they believed it was illegal, that Dave himself didn't (mean to) say that it was illegal, but in the case that it was, he closed operations just to avoid legal ramifications? I really don't want this guy to go to jail for some misunderstanding.

Actually, no. I am not an expert in Thailand's laws. I don't think anyone in this thread is.

However, so far as I can tell, they said no such things. It seems that OP asked the Bank of Thailand for an affirmative statement that these activities are legal. He suspended activities based, assuming everyone has been truthful, on the Bank of Thailand's NOT stating affirmatively that his actions are legal. They appear, in fact, to have reserved judgment for another time.

There does not appear to be any statement that any of these activities are illegal. While OP has possibly done us a long-term service in prodding the Bank of Thailand to provide some regulatory certainty so that business can continue, he might also have simply recklessly prodded a scary state entity to make a bad, hasty decision. I guess we'll see in a week or two. I'll judge the action by its results.

But nothing in Thailand that has any power to make laws has actually said Bitcoin is illegal. Goat is completely right on that part. The Bank of Thailand might or might not say that really soon, but it just hasn't yet. And if a central bank says something with legal significance, it says it on paper.

might being key word

also, Dave acknowledging that mining bitcoins and gifting bitcoins is legal leads me to believe the specificity of the above was what was said at some point, though any evidence of a record or even the existence of such a record could not be disclosed for one reason or another.

darkmule

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Quote from: ?? on ??

You were caught in a huge lie.

He was caught making a statement that turns out not to have much factual foundation. (It may ultimately turn out to have been true, or at least partly true.)

I haven't seen any reason to believe he was deliberately lying. Why would he?

darkmule

legendary

Activity: 1176

Merit: 1005

Quote from: vokain on July 31, 2013, 10:45:52 AM

Quote

At the conclusion of the meeting senior members of the Foreign Exchange Administration and Policy Department advised that due to lack of existing applicable laws, capital controls and the fact that Bitcoin straddles multiple financial facets the following Bitcoin activities are illegal in Thailand:

Buying Bitcoins
Selling Bitcoins
Buying any goods or services in exchange for Bitcoins
Selling any goods or services for Bitcoins
Sending Bitcoins to anyone located outside of Thailand
Receiving Bitcoins from anyone located outside of Thailand

Can we just agree that this might be what they said to him, that they believed it was illegal, that Dave himself didn't (mean to) say that it was illegal, but in the case that it was, he closed operations just to avoid legal ramifications? I really don't want this guy to go to jail for some misunderstanding.

Actually, no. I am not an expert in Thailand's laws. I don't think anyone in this thread is.

However, so far as I can tell, they said no such things. It seems that OP asked the Bank of Thailand for an affirmative statement that these activities are legal. He suspended activities based, assuming everyone has been truthful, on the Bank of Thailand's NOT stating affirmatively that his actions are legal. They appear, in fact, to have reserved judgment for another time.

There does not appear to be any statement that any of these activities are illegal. While OP has possibly done us a long-term service in prodding the Bank of Thailand to provide some regulatory certainty so that business can continue, he might also have simply recklessly prodded a scary state entity to make a bad, hasty decision. I guess we'll see in a week or two. I'll judge the action by its results.

But nothing in Thailand that has any power to make laws has actually said Bitcoin is illegal. Goat is completely right on that part. The Bank of Thailand might or might not say that really soon, but it just hasn't yet. And if a central bank says something with legal significance, it says it on paper.

Lohoris

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Bitgoblin

I'm wondering if that was intentional...

dave111223

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I invited anyone seeking knowledge to PM me and I received exactly 0 PMs; which I think shows that the naysayers here are not interested in anything other than flaming and smearing in order to restore stability to their own environments.

You can accuse me of spreading FUD; I was similarly chastised when being first to post about lengthy delays in the Mt Gox wire transferred several weeks before their hiatus.

Not to worry, such pharisaical people will not prevent me from making any future information I come across available to the general bitcoin community. As I know most of the community is made up of intelligent individual who are able to take in all available info and opinions, analyze it and come to their own conclusions. As opposed to the vocal minority who seek to censor anything which may cause them to make desperate and irrational decisions.

e4xit

sr. member

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Merit: 250

Quote from: becoin on July 31, 2013, 09:57:45 AM

Quote from: e4xit on July 31, 2013, 08:11:28 AM

In this context

What a bunch of retards gather sometimes on these forums?

We all should be grateful to OP for the timely info he gave us about Thai central bank order to suspend his Bitcoin business. Instead bunch of idiots decided to blame him for bank's decision.

becoin, I think I understand now why your ignore glows so brightly....

You appear to have responded to this 'announcement' from Dave by blindly accepting it and calling those who ask for evidence "retards". Do you have the capacity for individual critical thinking?

It also appears from your above statement, that you have missed the entire point of this thread; no-one as far as I can tell is bothering to argue over whether Dave111223 had a meeting with BoT (although it has not been proved, it is not really important), what we are debating is his outrageous claim that "Bitcoin is illegal in Thailand".

-ignore-

kthx

becoin

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Quote from: ?? on ??

You should read what the bank really said. The bank was reasonable.

Really? Why don't you read it once again?

Quote from: dave111223 on July 31, 2013, 06:36:21 AM

http://www.posttoday.com/เศรษฐกิจ-หุ้น/การเงิน/237451/ธปท-จับตาเฟดตัดสินคิวอี

http://asiancorrespondent.com/111332/has-bitcoin-been-banned-from-thailand/

Quote

Post Today cite BOT Governor Prasarn who states that in relation to the statement the Bitcoin company posted on their Web site, that the company contacted the BOT to request permission for the “money changer” business, but what they are doing is not exchanging of money. It may constitute being related to changes in the exchange rate. Therefore, we asked for suspension of activities through their Web site while we investigated. For now, we are liaising with relevant authorities to look at the details both the ICT (in relation to electronic transactions), Ministry of Finance, and the SEC before considering whether we can give a license or not.

BoT Governor is saying that Bitcoin is not money and you claim he is reasonable?

niko

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There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.

Can we have some productive conversation here, and attempt to control the damage?

Dave and Goat are partly justified in their reactions, but not completely. Yes, it appears that some of the BoT officials have intervened in a negative way, and made a request to halt Bitcoin trading. From their alleged statements it appears, not surprisingly, that they are mentally incompetent ("due to lack of laws, these activities are illegal...").

No, there is no law against Bitcoin, and no, Bitcoin is not illegal in Thailand. Dave has not been careful in wording of his initial statements, and his careless public statements have reverberated and mutated into FUD in the World media. On the other hand, Dave may be right in that, despite their mental retardation, said BoT officials could make his life difficult and unpleasant.

What we all need now is a long, wet, kiss between Goat and Dave, followed by their carefully orchestrated PR and political campaign. Both of them have something to offer to this cause.

Goat, Dave, bahtcoin, and in fact the whole Kingdom of Thailand have vested interest in seeing Bitcoin as a technology adopted and used.

vokain

legendary

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the name really brings a smile to my face

so clever

niko

hero member

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There is more to Bitcoin than bitcoins.

Quote from: OhShei8e on July 31, 2013, 04:06:01 PM

http://www.bahtcoin.com/

They have been running various electronic payment systems, including an e-cash of sorts ("webmoney") since 2006. Bitcoin is part of their offerings. No problems there.

OhShei8e

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