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unclescrooge

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Quote from: John (John K.) on August 29, 2012, 08:09:24 AM

Quote from: unclescrooge on August 29, 2012, 07:34:31 AM

The request is odd. Is it a advice from the attorney of Pirate? Or something more fishy like a pending police investigation already starting?

If I had a bitcoinmax account I wouldn't be confortable with this.

It seems he only wants the balance, forum/IRC name/or any other confirmation of the account , and Bitcoin withdraw address.
Not much to base a pending police investigation though, not even email addresses are needed here.

Quote

balance, forum / IRC name (or any other way of linking and confirming the account) and Bitcoin withdraw address

Then why would he do this? To be sure everyone is paid equally? He's not legally responsible if a passthrough operator doesn't return the coins.

Can't wait for Friday to know more about this.

piotr_n

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aka tonikt

Quote from: unclescrooge on August 29, 2012, 07:34:31 AM

If I had a bitcoinmax account I wouldn't be confortable with this.

But since you don't have bitcoinmax account, who in this thread gives a shit of what you'd be comfortable with?

I have a bitcoinmax account and I am very comfortable with this.
@payb.tc, please pass my account's details to Pirate.
Also please pass the message that I would like you to keep the 0.1% (or otherwise: 1.43%) from my sub-account's interests.

John (John K.)

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Away on an extended break

Quote from: unclescrooge on August 29, 2012, 07:34:31 AM

The request is odd. Is it a advice from the attorney of Pirate? Or something more fishy like a pending police investigation already starting?

If I had a bitcoinmax account I wouldn't be confortable with this.

It seems he only wants the balance, forum/IRC name/or any other confirmation of the account , and Bitcoin withdraw address.
Not much to base a pending police investigation though, not even email addresses are needed here.

Quote

balance, forum / IRC name (or any other way of linking and confirming the account) and Bitcoin withdraw address

ribuck

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Quote from: unclescrooge on August 29, 2012, 07:34:31 AM

The request is odd ... If I had a bitcoinmax account I wouldn't be confortable with this.

Nor would I. It may be a trap. The PPT operator might have a legal claim against pirate's assets if pirate is declaring bankruptcy, but the passthrough holders certainly don't.

It may be better to submit one overall claim. If some of the asset-holders prefer to submit individual claims, a consolidated claim should be submitted for the remaining funds.

(I'm not financially involved in this.)

hgmichna

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Quote from: ehmdjii on August 29, 2012, 02:13:22 AM

so there is still a chance for us to get our money back after all?

No. Not from the pirate.

Bitsky

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Quote from: JoelKatz on August 29, 2012, 07:30:21 AM

In this case even with their permission, because it facilitates a breach of the pooling agreement. If Pirate negotiates a private settlement with one of those people, that defrauds the others out of their agreed upon share of the payment by Pirate on that debt.

Even if an agreement would have existed, it would have been broken with the first sale of an account. It doesn't really matter who buys BS&T/PPT accounts. Any sale removes the current account owner from the queue list in exchange for a financial gain. So if you need to mark someone as a fraudster for whatever reason, you would have to mark everybody who offered, sold and bought accounts. Amongst those are some of the forum's big/respected posters. Those accounts are in some way pretty similar to GLBSE shares, so you would need to mark those traders too.

Payb.tc has stated before that accounts will be paid in a FIFO manner: oldest accounts first. If it's Pirate or Payb.tc who pays back doesn't really matter. If you look around, many already linked their accounts by posting offers here in the forum.

Edit: fixed misleading typo

unclescrooge

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The request is odd. Is it a advice from the attorney of Pirate? Or something more fishy like a pending police investigation already starting?

If I had a bitcoinmax account I wouldn't be confortable with this.

ErebusBat

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I am the one who knocks

Quote from: JoelKatz on August 29, 2012, 07:30:21 AM

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on August 29, 2012, 07:26:14 AM

It is highly unethical bordering on illegal to hand over users data to a third party without their express permission.

In this case even with their permission, because it facilitates a breach of the pooling agreement. If Pirate negotiates a private settlement with one of those people, that defrauds the others out of their agreed upon share of the payment by Pirate on that debt.

What pooling agreement? I signed no agreement, nor was one implied. If someone wants to offer me something to buy my pirate debt then I might entertain it, I am. It going to go looking though.

If paybtc wants to release a list of people who have opted in that is fine with me, if a reasonable offer comes in then I might entertain it.

John (John K.)

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Away on an extended break

ErebusBat

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My recommendation would be for people to spot posting "me too" RE handing data to pirate.

When / if paybtc needs a list I am sure he will add a checkbox on your account, so there isn't need to clutterthisthread.

Unless you want team ponzi to see that you have no problem with pirate having your name, in that case then: me too!

JoelKatz

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Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on August 29, 2012, 07:26:14 AM

It is highly unethical bordering on illegal to hand over users data to a third party without their express permission.

In this case even with their permission, because it facilitates a breach of the pooling agreement. If Pirate negotiates a private settlement with one of those people, that defrauds the others out of their agreed upon share of the payment by Pirate on that debt.

RoloTonyBrownTown

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He has my express permission.

Otoh

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payb.tc you can go ahead and pass on my info to pirateat40. I don't have any problems with that & would prefer you to do so.

Bitcoin Oz

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Wat

Quote from: JoelKatz on August 29, 2012, 07:23:23 AM

Quote from: Phraust on August 29, 2012, 07:18:55 AM

payb.tc you can go ahead and pass on my info to pirateat40. i dont have any problems with that.

I don't think he can. That would enable you to negotiate a direct settlement with Pirate, ripping off his other bond holders who are, by agreement with him, entitled to a share of any payment on that debt from Pirate. If he knowingly facilitates that, hasn't he breached his agreement with the other bond holders to ensure that payments from Pirate are distributed to bondholders as agreed?

It is highly unethical bordering on illegal to hand over users data to a third party without their express permission.

SimBesh

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Quote from: Micon on August 29, 2012, 07:03:20 AM

Payb.tc - I know u made mistakes so far. Please do not compound them and do not send a userlist to Pirate. This is a common technique to give him a targeted list of users that have deposited to the scam for future rollings.

yes im sure today is the day payb.tc starts taking advice from micon

ErebusBat

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I am the one who knocks

Quote from: JoelKatz on August 29, 2012, 07:23:23 AM

Quote from: Phraust on August 29, 2012, 07:18:55 AM

payb.tc you can go ahead and pass on my info to pirateat40. i dont have any problems with that.

I don't think he can. That would enable you to negotiate a direct settlement with Pirate, ripping off his other bond holders who are, by agreement with him, entitled to a share of any payment on that debt from Pirate.

I think he is perfectly capable. Also no one holds bonds in Bitcoinmax, fwiw

JoelKatz

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Quote from: Phraust on August 29, 2012, 07:18:55 AM

payb.tc you can go ahead and pass on my info to pirateat40. i dont have any problems with that.

I don't think he can. That would enable you to negotiate a direct settlement with Pirate, ripping off his other bond holders who are, by agreement with him, entitled to a share of any payment on that debt from Pirate. If he knowingly facilitates that, hasn't he breached his agreement with the other bond holders to ensure that payments from Pirate are distributed to bondholders as agreed?

(I'm using terms like "bond holders" and generically. The argument applies to any shared investment scheme.)

RoloTonyBrownTown

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