Bitcointalk.org supports illegal ponzi schemes - page 4.

Evildrum

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Quote from: freedoge.co on May 19, 2016, 12:16:40 PM

OK guys i give up on deleting my neg trust because it's all confusing here on bitcointalk, soon people will be afraid to even make a post because they will probably get red trust for spammning.

but my conclusion on this is that: Bitcointalk.org supports illegal ponzi schemes

that'sthe reason of this misunderstanding.

This argument has always been written off as emotional or rhetoric when its addressed but I agree it has to play a factor into the forum. But without the ownership correcting the forum,we remain in that area that we currently have with people policing the forum,you can agree or disagree,it never changes the tact one way or another.

I find I usually get my posts dissected three ways to Sunday to the point I no longer recognize my own post due to my logic fails,so tread lightly in agreeing with anything I say.

freedoge.co

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on May 19, 2016, 12:20:34 PM

Quote from: freedoge.co on May 19, 2016, 04:18:58 AM

just to summarize this non-sense:

1: the bitcointalk.org forum supports the ponzi games because the gambling->investor-based games is full of hyip and ponzis, doublers etc
2: there is a guy "cryptodevil" giving negative feedback to people involved in ponzis, doublers, hyip games
3: i asked the forum staff to remove this guy from default trust because he has nothing to do there
4: i'm getting negative response from forum staff, my negative feedback is ok
5: this is unbelievable, confusing and ridiculous Grin

1,2,4,5 are all correct. But staff isn't going to do jack shit about him being on dt. You're right, he shouldn't be on it but simply for the fact that he's a complete asshole, not because he neg reps ponzi people. Not saying all his feedback is correct.

and now i'm doing his job, trying to remove the investment-based section from this forum, what a lazy ass this cryptodevil. Grin

The Sceptical Chymist

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Quote from: freedoge.co on May 19, 2016, 04:18:58 AM

just to summarize this non-sense:

1: the bitcointalk.org forum supports the ponzi games because the gambling->investor-based games is full of hyip and ponzis, doublers etc
2: there is a guy "cryptodevil" giving negative feedback to people involved in ponzis, doublers, hyip games
3: i asked the forum staff to remove this guy from default trust because he has nothing to do there
4: i'm getting negative response from forum staff, my negative feedback is ok
5: this is unbelievable, confusing and ridiculous Grin

1,2,4,5 are all correct. But staff isn't going to do jack shit about him being on dt. You're right, he shouldn't be on it but simply for the fact that he's a complete asshole, not because he neg reps ponzi people. Not saying all his feedback is correct.

freedoge.co

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OK guys i give up on deleting my neg trust because it's all confusing here on bitcointalk, soon people will be afraid to even make a post because they will probably get red trust for spammning.

but my conclusion on this is that: Bitcointalk.org supports illegal ponzi schemes

that'sthe reason of this misunderstanding.

Evildrum

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Quote from: idev on May 19, 2016, 07:18:40 AM

Why the forum administration does not remove that forum is beyond me. Having the investor based forum here is actively supporting ponzi schemes, If the administration is really serious about preventing ponzi scams why would they keep that forum alive which enables anyone to openly promote such schemes.

This is why people are confused by the stance of the mods and ownership. On one hand they have a sub forum that is set up by ownership for a reason and the other mods not wanting people to use the forum. There are many splinters off this issue that make you worry about agendas being driven a little to hard at times.
This is not a accusation against any one just a observation,really do not care if the forum goes or stays.

Edit:

@minifrij

I am simply stating how I perceive things here,its the same line mods take with signatures as well.
Think you are misunderstanding what I said about the trust,personal reflection encompasses all those aspects you are stating. The agenda tool aspect is when some one is doing nothing but attacking a certain aspect it becomes a agenda,otherwise they let it go after 3 or 4 members get dinged making their point.
So it usually goes down the road of why and people look into those aspects and find threads that do not look that great,but I think you can find a thread like that for anyone driving change.

minifrij

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Quote from: Evildrum on May 19, 2016, 11:44:23 AM

Mods are in support of flagging people for using a sub forum that ownership set up? I can see how people get confused here. Grin

Simply being a moderator doesn't mean you have to agree with everything your superior does, similar to how being a member here doesn't mean you have to agree with the staff.
Regardless, the reasoning behind the sub-forum has been made clear in this thread. If you were to read it there is really not much to be confused about.

Quote from: Evildrum on May 19, 2016, 11:44:23 AM

I know the line but you can see why these issues bubble up and it seems a member is pushing them to bubble up by leaving these trust ratings.

A user does something untrustworthy. That user gets the consequences of doing something untrustworthy. User complains about consequences.
You would think after a while there would be no issues, as people could simply use their common sense and figure out that their actions have consequences. Sadly, and as this thread shows, this is not the case.

Quote from: Evildrum on May 19, 2016, 11:44:23 AM

Thought trust was to be a personal reflection of your interaction with the person,rather than a agenda tool.

Quote from: Trust Summary

Negative - You were scammed or you strongly believe that this person is a scammer.

You don't have to trade with someone to distrust them. Promoting an eventual scam is extremely untrustworthy IMO.

If we went by your logic I could steal some bitcoin from a newbie and keep my reputation clean. Since I wouldn't have traded with a DT member they couldn't tag me as a scammer with negative trust. Do you think this is how it should work?

Evildrum

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Mods are in support of flagging people for using a sub forum that ownership set up? I can see how people get confused here. Grin

I know the line but you can see why these issues bubble up and it seems a member is pushing them to bubble up by leaving these trust ratings.
Thought trust was to be a personal reflection of your interaction with the person,rather than a agenda tool.

Just interesting to see this over and over and still a disconnect.

dogie

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Quote from: idev on May 19, 2016, 07:18:40 AM

Why the forum administration does not remove that forum is beyond me.

Because if they're not wall off in their own area they end up being spammed all over the place.

freedoge.co

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Quote from: ibminer on May 19, 2016, 10:39:04 AM

Quote from: freedoge.co on May 19, 2016, 10:16:49 AM

you have some investigating skills, i must admit, but you are wrong i started this topic after the domain has expired so i'm keeping the account and want to join sig campaign.

i won't fight with you, enjoy your useless police work in your investor-based games playground.

As you are well aware, you're in a grace period, you can still renew the domain. You would have probably 25-30 days to do this, so it doesn't matter that you started this topic a day after it expired. You were still looking for offers as of yesterday (even though your auction apparently ended on the 15th). You would still have a reason to fight to remove the trust and sell the domain within the next 25-30 days. You might want to go ahead and end your auction if your not planning to sell the domain and are keeping the account.

is it relevant to this topic anyway? i'm not selling it nor renewing. I keep this account and need the false red trust gone to join sig campaign, that simple.

ibminer

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Quote from: freedoge.co on May 19, 2016, 10:16:49 AM

you have some investigating skills, i must admit, but you are wrong i started this topic after the domain has expired so i'm keeping the account and want to join sig campaign.

i won't fight with you, enjoy your useless police work in your investor-based games playground.

As you are well aware, you're in a grace period, you can still renew the domain. You would have probably 25-30 days to do this, so it doesn't matter that you started this topic a day after it expired. You were still looking for offers as of yesterday (even though your auction apparently ended on the 15th). You would still have a reason to fight to remove the trust and sell the domain within the next 25-30 days. You might want to go ahead and end your auction if your not planning to sell the domain and are keeping the account.

freedoge.co

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Quote from: cryptodevil on May 19, 2016, 08:34:18 AM

Quote from: Lauda on May 19, 2016, 03:57:26 AM

Also, why did you make this case now since you received your rating on: 2016-04-03 ?

I figure it's probably because the negative rating is harming his ability to sell his account 'package':

Quote from: freedoge.co on May 09, 2016, 09:58:30 AM

Auctioning domain freedoge.co with all files

Alexa Rank: 825k, 112 sites linking in http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/freedoge.co

Domain registered on Namecheap, expires May 19th, 2016

+ Twitter Account: https://twitter.com/freedogeco - 698 followers
+ This Bitcointalk account

Starting bid 0.1BTC
Min increment 0.005BTC

Payment BTC only, escrow welcome, buyer pays the fees
Payment address: 39eaKtKQ9Ba6RhUbURQKpyZnAnPjTYmd3R

Auction ends on 15th may 22:00 Gmt+1, +5 minutes after the last bid

Funny thing, consequence.

you have some investigating skills, i must admit, but you are wrong i started this topic after the domain has expired so i'm keeping the account and want to join sig campaign.

i won't fight with you, enjoy your useless police work in your investor-based games playground.

cryptodevil

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Quote from: Lauda on May 19, 2016, 03:57:26 AM

Also, why did you make this case now since you received your rating on: 2016-04-03 ?

I figure it's probably because the negative rating is harming his ability to sell his account 'package':

Quote from: freedoge.co on May 09, 2016, 09:58:30 AM

Auctioning domain freedoge.co with all files

Alexa Rank: 825k, 112 sites linking in http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/freedoge.co

Domain registered on Namecheap, expires May 19th, 2016

+ Twitter Account: https://twitter.com/freedogeco - 698 followers
+ This Bitcointalk account

Starting bid 0.1BTC
Min increment 0.005BTC

Payment BTC only, escrow welcome, buyer pays the fees
Payment address: 39eaKtKQ9Ba6RhUbURQKpyZnAnPjTYmd3R

Auction ends on 15th may 22:00 Gmt+1, +5 minutes after the last bid

Funny thing, consequence.

minifrij

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Quote from: idev on May 19, 2016, 07:18:40 AM

Why the forum administration does not remove that forum is beyond me. Having the investor based forum here is actively supporting ponzi schemes

This was explained above by Lauda. If the section was removed the Ponzi schemes would go back to being posted around the forum like previous and would need a lot of effort to clean up. It's easier just to have all of them in one cesspool than to have to clean them up from around the forum. See:

Quote from: Lauda on May 19, 2016, 04:21:58 AM

Removing that board is definitely problematic as it is going to push those games towards other sections

Quote from: idev on May 19, 2016, 07:18:40 AM

If the administration is really serious about preventing ponzi scams why would they keep that forum alive which enables anyone to openly promote such schemes.

I don't think the administration (theymos and BadBear) really cares currently. The people in the Default Trust system do not represent the views of the administration, nor Lauda or any other staff member than theymos and BadBear.

idev

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Why the forum administration does not remove that forum is beyond me. Having the investor based forum here is actively supporting ponzi schemes, If the administration is really serious about preventing ponzi scams why would they keep that forum alive which enables anyone to openly promote such schemes.

ibminer

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Quote

A Ponzi scheme (also a Ponzi game or a Ponzi)[1] is a fraudulent investment operation where the operator, an individual or organization, pays returns to its investors from new capital paid to the operators by new investors, rather than from profit earned through legitimate sources.

Quote

A pyramid scheme is a form of fraud similar in some ways to a Ponzi scheme, relying as it does on a mistaken belief in a nonexistent financial reality, including the hope of an extremely high rate of return. However, several characteristics distinguish these schemes from Ponzi schemes:[2]

-In a Ponzi scheme, the schemer acts as a "hub" for the victims, interacting with all of them directly. In a pyramid scheme, those who recruit additional participants benefit directly. (In fact, failure to recruit typically means no investment return.)

-A Ponzi scheme claims to rely on some esoteric investment approach and often attracts well-to-do investors, whereas pyramid schemes explicitly claim that new money will be the source of payout for the initial investments.

-A pyramid scheme typically collapses much faster because it requires exponential increases in participants to sustain it. By contrast, Ponzi schemes can survive simply by persuading most existing participants to reinvest their money, with a relatively small number of new participants.

This is the reason you are not trustworthy. You create (or willingly participate) in fraudulent investment schemes, whether its a pyramid, a ponzi, or whatever you want to call it. Most people do not trust others that are knowingly involved with such schemes, I am one of them, and there are plenty of people that do not know what a ponzi or pyramid scheme is, and those are the people that need to be notified about your activities. I'm late on the feedback but I'm going to leave it as a warning to others in case he somehow gets this feedback removed.

minifrij

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In Memory of Zepher

Quote from: freedoge.co on May 19, 2016, 04:40:21 AM

how should i convince him to remove cryptodevil from his list if they are probably good mates Wink

If you don't have a compelling enough argument to send to the person keeping cryptodevil on their trust list, I guess that they don't deserve to be removed from DT. Dooglus doesn't keep people on his trust list because they're his 'good mates', else he wouldn't be on DT1.
So far your argument consists of 'he negative trusted me so I can't earn bitcoin from a signature campaign'. Considering that you can live without being in a signature campaign, your argument isn't really valid enough to warrant anyone else really caring.

My suggestion would be to stop posting support in shady services' threads, wait a few months and contact cryptodevil to ask nicely if he will remove the negative trust. This would probably work better than trying to start a witch hunt against him.

freedoge.co

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Quote from: Lauda on May 19, 2016, 04:21:58 AM

Quote from: freedoge.co on May 19, 2016, 04:05:49 AM

If forum doesn't support such games, is it a big problem to wipe that board entirely? I think NO. So i understand it as the forum and stuff support ponzis TOO.

So now you are trying to push the 'fault' away from yourself onto the forum staff? That's not how this works and this is definitely not the way to create support your 'cause'. If you had spent enough time reading in the right section(s), you would understand how the forum works. Removing that board is definitely problematic as it is going to push those games towards other sections; the only option is both removing the section and banning investor based games. Just because the administration does not remove the section entirely (or ban those games), that does not mean that staff members support them. As an example: I don't support them and I don't even visit that section unless I have to.

Quote from: freedoge.co on May 19, 2016, 04:18:58 AM

1: the bitcointalk.org forum supports the ponzi games because the gambling->investor-based games is full of hyip and ponzis, doublers etc

No.

Quote from: freedoge.co on May 19, 2016, 04:18:58 AM

3: i asked the forum staff to remove this guy from red trust because he has nothing to do there

The "staff" can't do anything; only the administration can. However, you should know that trust is very rarely moderated (only in extreme cases of abuse), so this is a futile attempt (trying to get the staff to remove him). You should be looking at the person in DT1 who has cryptodevil in their list; that would be dooglus (IIRC).

i guess i should say thank you now Grin

but i don't believe it would solve anything, how should i convince him to remove cryptodevil from his list if they are probably good mates Wink

Lauda

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Quote from: freedoge.co on May 19, 2016, 04:05:49 AM

If forum doesn't support such games, is it a big problem to wipe that board entirely? I think NO. So i understand it as the forum and stuff support ponzis TOO.

So now you are trying to push the 'fault' away from yourself onto the forum staff? That's not how this works and this is definitely not the way to create support your 'cause'. If you had spent enough time reading in the right section(s), you would understand how the forum works. Removing that board is definitely problematic as it is going to push those games towards other sections; the only option is both removing the section and banning investor based games. Just because the administration does not remove the section entirely (or ban those games), that does not mean that staff members support them. As an example: I don't support them and I don't even visit that section unless I have to.

Quote from: freedoge.co on May 19, 2016, 04:18:58 AM

1: the bitcointalk.org forum supports the ponzi games because the gambling->investor-based games is full of hyip and ponzis, doublers etc

No.

Quote from: freedoge.co on May 19, 2016, 04:18:58 AM

3: i asked the forum staff to remove this guy from red trust because he has nothing to do there

The "staff" can't do anything; only the administration can. However, you should know that trust is very rarely moderated (only in extreme cases of abuse), so this is a futile attempt (trying to get the staff to remove him). You should be looking at the person in DT1 who has cryptodevil in their list; that would be dooglus (IIRC).

freedoge.co

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just to summarize this non-sense:

1: the bitcointalk.org forum supports the ponzi games because the gambling->investor-based games is full of hyip and ponzis, doublers etc
2: there is a guy "cryptodevil" giving negative feedback to people involved in ponzis, doublers, hyip games
3: i asked the forum staff to remove this guy from default trust because he has nothing to do there
4: i'm getting negative response from forum staff, my negative feedback is ok
5: this is unbelievable, confusing and ridiculous Grin

lottery248

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beware of your keys.

i don't think he is supposed to be removed, however you are not supposed to support ponzi's, and as well as being a ponzi sheriff is not helping at all.

we know you are gonna be the next victim of the ponzi, you should understand how ponzi works.

Topic: Bitcointalk.org supports illegal ponzi schemes - page 4. (Read 3765 times)