BitDrop (or ShadyDeliveryNetwork), a non-robotic courier system - page 2.

EhVedadoOAnonimato

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Quote from: teknomunk on August 07, 2012, 09:06:17 PM

Quote from: myrkul on August 07, 2012, 05:58:27 PM

I heard some noises about an insurance program which would take some of the stress out of that.

Perhaps something along the lines of a Surety bond could help? The couriers each put up an amount of money (BTC) as collateral for carried packages. This may also help with the repudation problem as it is easier to prove that money has been put in escrow than it is to check a person's honesty. Also should help with bootstrapping repudation. Not quite sure how it would work if a third-party grabs the package at a dead drop.

The risk of an unrelated third-party stealing the package should be small, and easier to deal with.

The main problem for which I haven't yet seen a good answer is infiltrated law enforcement, particular those wanting to build reputation before attacking. Suppose they don't care about giving some money to the system (escrow that would be taken from them). And suppose they are willing to deliver a few packages before attacking.
How do you protect your runners from them when they decide to drop traps?

420

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Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on August 07, 2012, 09:21:52 PM

https://www.meemeep.com/ this is a similar idea.

new plan

1. convince meemeep to use bitcoins

2. done

HostFat

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Quote from: bbit on August 07, 2012, 10:06:39 PM

this ^^

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.95977

bbit

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Quote from: edd on August 07, 2012, 11:10:55 AM

Quote from: boonies4u on August 07, 2012, 09:04:45 AM

Couldn't a sub-contractor system work? A large, recognized courier system would hire sub-contractors to handle deliveries. This way, even if the individual courier gets in trouble, the actual agency would have plausible deniability.

Why would anyone want to be a courier if it meant assuming responsibility for the package contents with absolutely no assurance it wasn't something illegal or dangerous?

this ^^

myrkul

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Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on August 07, 2012, 09:24:49 PM

Quote from: teknomunk on August 07, 2012, 09:06:17 PM

Quote from: myrkul on August 07, 2012, 05:58:27 PM

I heard some noises about an insurance program which would take some of the stress out of that.

Perhaps something along the lines of a Surety bond could help? The couriers each put up an amount of money (BTC) as collateral for carried packages. This may also help with the reputation problem as it is easier to prove that money has been put in escrow than it is to check a person's honesty. Also should help with bootstrapping reputation. Not quite sure how it would work if a third-party grabs the package at a dead drop.

This is an obvious solution. There are ways to prove that the person is the same as the one who placed the bond too such as signed bitcoin messages. (They sign a message using the private keys to the bond address).

Great ideas.

Bitcoin Oz

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Wat

Quote from: teknomunk on August 07, 2012, 09:06:17 PM

Quote from: myrkul on August 07, 2012, 05:58:27 PM

I heard some noises about an insurance program which would take some of the stress out of that.

Perhaps something along the lines of a Surety bond could help? The couriers each put up an amount of money (BTC) as collateral for carried packages. This may also help with the repudation problem as it is easier to prove that money has been put in escrow than it is to check a person's honesty. Also should help with bootstrapping repudation. Not quite sure how it would work if a third-party grabs the package at a dead drop.

This is an obvious solution. There are ways to prove that the person is the same as the one who placed the bond too such as signed bitcoin messages. (They sign a message using the private keys to the bond address).

Bitcoin Oz

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Wat

https://www.meemeep.com/ this is a similar idea.

teknomunk

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Quote from: myrkul on August 07, 2012, 05:58:27 PM

I heard some noises about an insurance program which would take some of the stress out of that.

Perhaps something along the lines of a Surety bond could help? The couriers each put up an amount of money (BTC) as collateral for carried packages. This may also help with the repudation problem as it is easier to prove that money has been put in escrow than it is to check a person's honesty. Also should help with bootstrapping repudation. Not quite sure how it would work if a third-party grabs the package at a dead drop.

Shadow383

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Quote from: ?? on ??

The system requires a lot of trust, leaving a deposit with the system for the first few deliveries while you build a reputation works there but if your doing blind drops you have to trust every step in the chain, either A didn't drop it or B was lying when he said it wasn't there.

A suggestion:

Give each runner a code to write down/print off.
They give code to the runner that delivers to them, and that person can then enter it on the site and get paid.

That way, you know roughly where in the chain the item is at all times.
If a runner isn't happy that they've received the right package (maybe send them all a picture of it when they confirm too) then they don't give the one that delivered to them their code, and the problem gets reported.

Then, when you take delivery, you give your receipt code to the last runner and when they enter it in the site to get paid the delivery gets marked as successful.
Thoughts?

myrkul

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I heard some noises about an insurance program which would take some of the stress out of that.

myrkul

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Activity: 532

Merit: 500

FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM

Quote from: boonies4u on August 07, 2012, 04:20:13 PM

Quote from: myrkul on August 07, 2012, 04:18:22 PM

nuh-uh. That's a security hole. If I'm sending something, I drop it, and then forget it. Once I'm home, I notify the network, and it's out of my hands.

So is this dead drop or courier? I was thinking of a hybrid.

As I understand it, courier from drop to drop.

boonies4u

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Quote from: myrkul on August 07, 2012, 04:18:22 PM

nuh-uh. That's a security hole. If I'm sending something, I drop it, and then forget it. Once I'm home, I notify the network, and it's out of my hands.

So is this dead drop or courier? I was thinking of a hybrid.

myrkul

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nuh-uh. That's a security hole. If I'm sending something, I drop it, and then forget it. Once I'm home, I notify the network, and it's out of my hands.

boonies4u

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Quote from: myrkul on August 07, 2012, 04:01:30 PM

Quote from: boonies4u on August 07, 2012, 03:57:28 PM

It could be dead drop between runners, that way the chances of one successfully ratting on one another is lowered. But the sender and the receiver would meet the runner for the first and last leg respectively.

Preferably not. Sender drops package, notifies network. Package is moved from drop to drop, eventually reaching destination drop. Network notifies recipient "You've got mail".

If I were wanting to have something sent, I probably would like to see it leaving my hands. Even if that meant staking out the pickup location. Last thing I would want is to be tempted at picking it back up, if I felt that it might not have been picked up.

Perhaps the pickup and delivery could be in person as an option, as a way to verify. That way both the first and last pair of runners and clients would submit confirmations of pickup and delivery respectively.

myrkul

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Quote from: boonies4u on August 07, 2012, 03:57:28 PM

It could be dead drop between runners, that way the chances of one successfully ratting on one another is lowered. But the sender and the receiver would meet the runner for the first and last leg respectively.

Preferably not. Sender drops package, notifies network. Package is moved from drop to drop, eventually reaching destination drop. Network notifies recipient "You've got mail".

boonies4u

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Quote from: edd on August 07, 2012, 03:27:00 PM

Quote from: boonies4u on August 07, 2012, 01:16:38 PM

Quote from: edd on August 07, 2012, 11:10:55 AM

Quote from: boonies4u on August 07, 2012, 09:04:45 AM

Couldn't a sub-contractor system work? A large, recognized courier system would hire sub-contractors to handle deliveries. This way, even if the individual courier gets in trouble, the actual agency would have plausible deniability.

Why would anyone want to be a courier if it meant assuming responsibility for the package contents with absolutely no assurance it wasn't something illegal or dangerous?

I don't see what demand there would be for this service that did not involve delivering something stolen, illegal, dangerous, or at least sensitive.

I would rather the infrastructure remain and one person taking a fall, than having the entire system fall apart. Since you would be going through a legitimate courier, the client would also have plausible deniability for use, since the parent company has legitimate use.

Now it seems like more of a dead drop system than a courier system.

It could be dead drop between runners, that way the chances of one successfully ratting on one another is lowered. But the sender and the receiver would meet the runner for the first and last leg respectively.

edd

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Quote from: boonies4u on August 07, 2012, 01:16:38 PM

Quote from: edd on August 07, 2012, 11:10:55 AM

Quote from: boonies4u on August 07, 2012, 09:04:45 AM

Couldn't a sub-contractor system work? A large, recognized courier system would hire sub-contractors to handle deliveries. This way, even if the individual courier gets in trouble, the actual agency would have plausible deniability.

Why would anyone want to be a courier if it meant assuming responsibility for the package contents with absolutely no assurance it wasn't something illegal or dangerous?

I don't see what demand there would be for this service that did not involve delivering something stolen, illegal, dangerous, or at least sensitive.

I would rather the infrastructure remain and one person taking a fall, than having the entire system fall apart. Since you would be going through a legitimate courier, the client would also have plausible deniability for use, since the parent company has legitimate use.

Now it seems like more of a dead drop system than a courier system.

boonies4u

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Quote from: edd on August 07, 2012, 11:10:55 AM

Quote from: boonies4u on August 07, 2012, 09:04:45 AM

Couldn't a sub-contractor system work? A large, recognized courier system would hire sub-contractors to handle deliveries. This way, even if the individual courier gets in trouble, the actual agency would have plausible deniability.

Why would anyone want to be a courier if it meant assuming responsibility for the package contents with absolutely no assurance it wasn't something illegal or dangerous?

I don't see what demand there would be for this service that did not involve delivering something stolen, illegal, dangerous, or at least sensitive.

I would rather the infrastructure remain and one person taking a fall, than having the entire system fall apart. Since you would be going through a legitimate courier, the client would also have plausible deniability for use, since the parent company has legitimate use.

tgmarks

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Quote from: edd on August 07, 2012, 11:10:55 AM

Quote from: boonies4u on August 07, 2012, 09:04:45 AM

Couldn't a sub-contractor system work? A large, recognized courier system would hire sub-contractors to handle deliveries. This way, even if the individual courier gets in trouble, the actual agency would have plausible deniability.

Why would anyone want to be a courier if it meant assuming responsibility for the package contents with absolutely no assurance it wasn't something illegal or dangerous?

I think that totally depends on how much people are willing to pay to ship it. Although if I was making a ton of money to transport a little box, that could pretty clearly state that it's contents are expensive and dangerous.

Awesome project though. Just read all 8 pages and can't believe I haven't seen this before.

edd

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Quote from: boonies4u on August 07, 2012, 09:04:45 AM

Couldn't a sub-contractor system work? A large, recognized courier system would hire sub-contractors to handle deliveries. This way, even if the individual courier gets in trouble, the actual agency would have plausible deniability.

Why would anyone want to be a courier if it meant assuming responsibility for the package contents with absolutely no assurance it wasn't something illegal or dangerous?

Topic: BitDrop (or ShadyDeliveryNetwork), a non-robotic courier system - page 2. (Read 30385 times)