Topic: bitfloor issues? - page 37. (Read 55577 times)

No, no you can't. You can speculate and make up baseless accusations.


See?


25,000 BTC, not $2mil. Even if you convert it to USD, it's $250,000 that went missing.


Total lie. The company answered questions, talked to people on the forums and came to the best course of action that it could get, that being, to repay the customers from it's future profits. Some customers complained, but either it's get repaid slowly, or the business goes away. No one was willing to invest enough in the LLC, or to give it a big enough loan, to cover the loss. And don't forget, it's an LLC. Roman isn't personally liable to anyone.


Despite Bitfloor being registered and following AML procedures? Or is this more "speculating?"


No, just speculation. Baseless fud more like it. See above.


Please explain MtGox and their French bank account then? How can you say that it's a pain in the ass to operate in the real world, and then turn around and say that "Banks don't close people's accounts without explanations" and that "it must be all Bitfloor's fault?" Are you operating in the real world, and finding it to be a pain in the ass, because you are so incompetent, too?

NOBODY is suggesting that, and, frankly, you're an idiot for even thinking that anyone has. What we are saying is that banks have an uncanny tendency to shut down accounts of any businesses they deem "inconvenient." Bitfloor and MtGox trade currency, meaning their bank accounts get a lot of deposits and withdrawals. The bank could have closed the account because it was worried about money laundering issues (not from Bitfloor, but from the government auditing them), or they could even have closed the account because the accounting work to track all the money coming in and out was simply getting too tedious. Maybe the exchanges were just costing them too much in accountant salaries and overtime. It doesn't matter. Banks can close accounts on businesses without explanation or recourse, and you can't blame that on Bitfloor.


Well, you can, but then you shouldn't be involved with Bitcoin anyway, since the whole damn point of Bitcoin is to make this kind of bullshit go away. If you think that this kind of bs is the fault of the people using the banks, and not the banks themselves, you're in the wrong forum.

When Roman tells everyone exactly why he was shutdown, we can debate.   My point is, it is more likely because of his business practices than the evil banking empire attacking the bitcoin rebels.
Let's take a step back and think about it.   A company where around $2 million of its clients money went missing six months ago.   The "ceo" of the company stops answering these customers questions and many are upset.   The business has a lot of small transactions (inbound and outbound) from many different people and countries (red flag for AML compliance).   Complaints are lodged against the company by many people whose money was stolen and who the CEO refuses to answer to (speculation but seems very likely).   What do you think you would do as the bank when the regulator contacts you about your clients account?    I do not see any big mystery here except a lot of people who do not seem to know what a pain in the ass it is to operate in the real world.

Funny you should ask, because in the real world ^(tm) I would expect to get the money back, but what actually happens most of the time is they just say "they'll get back" to me.

Yes.

If you are trying to get USD into Bitfloor right now, you are the only one here like that.

We are all trying to get it out. Preferably via a check by mail, no way I'm going to give more personal details to Bitfloor.

I hope they get back on their feet. Am I the only one here that is desperate to get their USD into Bitfloor?

+1 to the +1

You lose your customers money from your own incompetence, you repay.   You borrow and repay it.   Or you have no credibility.   This is not a "they" are all out to get us bitcoiner thing.   If you honestly do not know why a bank would shut this and the european site down, then you should really start thinking about it.   It is not that complicated. 
So, if BofA was robbed and you had deposits there, would you expect the money back?   Or, would you expect them to "get back to you" and carry on their business?
You really think this shutdown is because the money center banks are terrified that roman and bitcoin is about to destroy their business with bitcoin?    That is truly insane.

This is one of those not actual "criticisms" I was talking about. Why do you believe they did not understand their business?



Not true. They had enough BTC and enough USD to cover all withdrawals, since they did not do any fractional reserve. What extra capital did they need?


That's the one thing I mentioned that was, at the very least, weird.


They did. They were registered with the government, they had a business bank account. The bank decided not to like them. It's a fairly common occurrence with bitcoin-based businesses. Even happened to MtGox, where the bank they worked with knew what they were doing, was ok with it, then decided they're not ok with it, and MtGox actually had to take them to court.


I was not aware they had customer support and staffing problems. Is this something you are bringing up just now? Why? and what does this have to do with their current situation?


What does this have to do with what happened now? Repay the money how, and from what source? And what do you think they were doing when they were using their own profits to make people whole? Would a competent thing have been to print 25,000BTC out of nothing and work under severe fractional reserve? Or would the more competent thing have been to say "We were robbed, oh well, good luck, I'm shutting down, and leaving you with nothing"? What is the competent thing to do?

This. I started responding because folks seemed rather confused, seemed to think that USD and BTC funds were at risk, that Bitfloor had announced permanent shutdown, didn't really understand the situation. I like to think that I was fighting FUD rather than actually defending Bitfloor. I use multiple exchanges, I have no particular allegiance to Bitfloor.

I know I said that "Roman handled this nicely" but that was way too general/premature on my part, and I agree with the following points that have been made:
1) The fact that some users have not yet received emails is ridiculous
2) The fact that international users are going to have to wait quite a while to even begin verification of an option to receive USD funds is outrageous
3) The fact that this seems to have been dealt with at last-minute and Roman probably didn't have a contingency plan for this eventuality... again, outrageous. It's not like an exchange hasn't gotten its account closed by a bank before...

OTOH, (I think of Topol every time...)
Roman was probably concerned about panic-trading if he kept trading open for long enough to convert user funds to BTC, and in addition, don't tell me people wouldn't criticize him just as much for forcing a certain price to prevent last-minute escape gouging. That is a legitimate suggestion but he would get just as much flak for that as he is getting for this.

Still, Mr. Miner coming in here and trolling about how "real businesses" don't get their Paypal accounts frozen, despite a quick google search being all it takes to prove him incontrovertibly wrong on that point, and then accusing me of working for bitfloor... I guess entertainment is always nice? I try to look for the silver lining.

Wait, you're still going on about this, after numerous counterexamples? You can set up your business perfectly well, be properly capitalized, and even contact the compliance department numerous times, only to be shut down with no reason given, as is stated in the contract. This has happened numerous times to numerous organizations. All it takes is for the compliance department to decide they don't like bitcoin businesses, and pull the plug on one when it gets too big for their liking. I like your pro-bank tilt though, assuming that they always play by the rules and have honorable intentions, am I to assume that you work for JPM or something? Maybe I'll put my tinfoil hat on and start calling you inaba
Paypal/Banks/etc have shown themselves numerous times to be corrupt institutions with their own self-interest at heart. There is absolutely no reason to assume that Bitfloor "wasn't doinitrite" and got shut down for actual compliance violations. It seems you have a personal beef with bitfloor and no amount of counter-FUD will stop your trolling ;D;D

Beyond their control?   All of my criticisms were within their control and they should not have run a business that they do not understand.   They were completely undercapitalized for what they are doing.    I am not talking about the first incident which cost people over 23,000 BTC either (that is just complete incompetence.   
1.   Notifying everyone at the same time (and it just seems notifying everyone) --  within their control YES.
2.   Setting up their business in a proper way so that the compliance department is aware and approves what they are doing? --- within their control YES.
3.   Responding to customers complaints and staffing to do it in a timely manner ---  within their control YES.
4.   Repaying the money that was stolen because of your incompetence (admitted incompetence too, read his own admission) -- within their control YES.

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

There are "criticisms," and there are outright "lies and misinformation." It's not wrong to defend someone against "outright lies and misinformation," even if that someone really screwed up. Feel free to criticize Bitfloor for not having a contingency plan for something like this, or sending the e-mail to some people but not others, but don't criticize them for something beyond their control.

No, I think someone taking as much time to defend every single criticism constantly all day long is probably disingenuous when they claim to have no ties.
There was a guy here named inaba who did the same thing for a LONG time and then changed his name to admit who he actually worked for.

I don't understand the "inaba" part but -
You are an absolute riot! You think that understanding how the ACH system works (and why it is profitable for banksters to keep it SLOW) requires an employment at Bitfloor? So, wait, Bitfloor designed the ACH system and only Bitfloor employees understand how it works well enough to answer a simple question about the possibility of a "rushed" ACH on an internet forum?
Again, you are an absolute riot. Thanks for the entertainment

Your assignment:
1) Google search "ACH transfer" so you can understand how easy it was for me to answer that question without being a Bitfloor employee
2) Contact a man named Roman Shtylman and tell him you've found him a new PR rep, since apparently I am doing such a great job at convincing paranoid FUDtrolls that I work for him.

By the way, was my prior response to xenigma sufficiently negative enough to convince you that I'm not on the BF payroll? I'll say it again - not giving international customers a quick way out (or not planning for that eventuality) is DUMB and STUPID and roman is DUMB and STUPID for not doing it, and bitfloor SUX! Lol

Honestly, your best option is to e-mail Bitfloor support, and ask what they can do for you regarding getting your money out. They are no doubt inundated with e-mails, and thus may not get to you quickly, but if you are international, they may wire the money, or send it to you by other means. Regardless, the best action is to actually talk to them, directly, instead of complain to all of us, who really can't help you in any way.

Good luck.

Thank you for your feedback. I am relaying my personal story because it relates to the quality and character of the exchange.

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1. At no point did I have invested more than I could afford to lose. Did I have more in the market than I could afford to have stolen (access to funds blocked for a period of time), yes. This was a mistake on my part, but the semantics of the issue are key because my current situation is not the responsibility of my own actions, but the responsibility of the individual(s)/company which is blocking access to control my own funds.

2. Thank you for estimating the cost of an international wire transfer. I am glad that it is not a percentage base of the amount transferred, but the time delays associated with such a transaction result in true costs in excess of $50

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dw: Thank you for your reply. I am working in the short term to see what options are available. Please clarify what actions I've taken that you'd classify as stupid shit.

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It is not a 'minor' inconvenience. I have NO access to my funds. A mechanism of managing them has not been announced. ACH transfer is not an option.


You're also claim that 'There is no problem relating to USD that they owe users'


Is my situation not an issue related to a debt which I am owed? I cannot receive their fiat disbursement method. I can receive BTC.

One issue deals with the systems in place (or not in place) to disburse USD. The other relates to the explicit decision to prevent withdrawal of BTC.

Do you work for them inaba?  Ooops, I meant bitconashley.

There is no technical reason ACH can't be processed same day.  There is a large financial one.   Why would companies pay for expensive bank wires if they could get same day transfers for $0.15 to $0.35 (cost of ACH transactions in bulk)?