BitForce SC - release notes - page 4.

Bitinvestor

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Quote from: coretechs on June 23, 2012, 01:02:58 PM

Quote from: BinaryMage on June 23, 2012, 01:01:07 PM

Quote from: imsaguy on June 23, 2012, 11:37:27 AM

Quote from: bitcoindaddy on June 23, 2012, 11:36:26 AM

Quote from: DutchBrat on June 22, 2012, 09:07:11 PM

My solution:

Open up a pre–order list from Monday till mid–july, then close it.

This will give everyone ample time to order

Make an inventory of what has been ordered and start producing exactly that amount

When all the pre–Orders have been produced, pack them and ship them off at the same day in october, be it jalapenos, singles or rigs.

That way everone will receive their products around the same time

This is the most fair proposal I've heard.

+1. Announcing a preorder a day before you do it and not even posting the announcement on your website is a little.. weird.

+2. Fair for everyone.

+3 this is a fair solution.

-4 It's not fair because international orders take much longer to deliver.

coretechs

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Activity: 362

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Quote from: BinaryMage on June 23, 2012, 01:01:07 PM

Quote from: imsaguy on June 23, 2012, 11:37:27 AM

Quote from: bitcoindaddy on June 23, 2012, 11:36:26 AM

Quote from: DutchBrat on June 22, 2012, 09:07:11 PM

My solution:

Open up a pre–order list from Monday till mid–july, then close it.

This will give everyone ample time to order

Make an inventory of what has been ordered and start producing exactly that amount

When all the pre–Orders have been produced, pack them and ship them off at the same day in october, be it jalapenos, singles or rigs.

That way everone will receive their products around the same time

This is the most fair proposal I've heard.

+1. Announcing a preorder a day before you do it and not even posting the announcement on your website is a little.. weird.

+2. Fair for everyone.

+3 this is a fair solution.

BinaryMage

hero member

Activity: 560

Merit: 500

Ad astra.

Quote from: imsaguy on June 23, 2012, 11:37:27 AM

Quote from: bitcoindaddy on June 23, 2012, 11:36:26 AM

Quote from: DutchBrat on June 22, 2012, 09:07:11 PM

My solution:

Open up a pre–order list from Monday till mid–july, then close it.

This will give everyone ample time to order

Make an inventory of what has been ordered and start producing exactly that amount

When all the pre–Orders have been produced, pack them and ship them off at the same day in october, be it jalapenos, singles or rigs.

That way everone will receive their products around the same time

This is the most fair proposal I've heard.

+1. Announcing a preorder a day before you do it and not even posting the announcement on your website is a little.. weird.

+2. Fair for everyone.

imsaguy

vip

Activity: 574

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Don't send me a pm unless you gpg encrypt it.

Quote from: bitcoindaddy on June 23, 2012, 11:36:26 AM

Quote from: DutchBrat on June 22, 2012, 09:07:11 PM

My solution:

Open up a pre–order list from Monday till mid–july, then close it.

This will give everyone ample time to order

Make an inventory of what has been ordered and start producing exactly that amount

When all the pre–Orders have been produced, pack them and ship them off at the same day in october, be it jalapenos, singles or rigs.

That way everone will receive their products around the same time

This is the most fair proposal I've heard.

+1. Announcing a preorder a day before you do it and not even posting the announcement on your website is a little.. weird.

bitcoindaddy

hero member

Activity: 481

Merit: 500

Quote from: DutchBrat on June 22, 2012, 09:07:11 PM

My solution:

Open up a pre–order list from Monday till mid–july, then close it.

This will give everyone ample time to order

Make an inventory of what has been ordered and start producing exactly that amount

When all the pre–Orders have been produced, pack them and ship them off at the same day in october, be it jalapenos, singles or rigs.

That way everone will receive their products around the same time

This is the most fair proposal I've heard.

ice_chill

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Activity: 336

Merit: 250

Quote from: coretechs on June 23, 2012, 09:50:44 AM

It looks like mini-rig purchasers are still screwed the most, unless they get priority for upgrading. Based on the the order list thread some people are scheduled to receive their mini-rig in August. 2 months later a handful of jalapenos will equal the hashing power and then the mini-rig owner will be forced to upgrade (shelling out another $15k) or lose out entirely. If they do decide to upgrade and end up in some order lottery it's really gonna hurt. Seems like punishment for early customers who put their faith/$ in BFL.

Add to that non refundable 20% import tax that first needs to be repaid, then another 20% import tax when the SC Rig arrives.

coretechs

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Activity: 362

Merit: 250

It looks like mini-rig purchasers are still screwed the most, unless they get priority for upgrading. Based on the the order list thread some people are scheduled to receive their mini-rig in August. 2 months later a handful of jalapenos will equal the hashing power and then the mini-rig owner will be forced to upgrade (shelling out another $15k) or lose out entirely. If they do decide to upgrade and end up in some order lottery it's really gonna hurt. Seems like punishment for early customers who put their faith/$ in BFL.

atsoat

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Merit: 0

There are so many unknowns in this, that for the protection of both sides, you need to clarify what the cancellation terms are going to be.

Especially if you are still considering any kind of lottery style random prioritisation of orders - whereby people may place extra orders with the intention of cancelling the lottery losers.

Assuming the product development is successful and you actually reach the shipping stage, the rate at which you ship is going to change the payback time, and (the more sane) people will redo their sums and reconsider their orders.

Bitcoin Oz

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Wat

My coffee is getting cold.

Luceo

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Per aspera ad astra!

I concur with a lot of the posts here, please open pre-orders at a set time, for a set period, and make sure that everybody who orders in that period has their products shipped simultaneously.

Ideally, limit the value of those orders per customer to ensure that you do the best you can not to be a part of a 51% attack.

DutchBrat

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Quote from: DILLIGAF on June 23, 2012, 01:42:48 AM

Quote from: BFL on June 23, 2012, 12:44:43 AM

Quote from: Serge on June 23, 2012, 12:38:38 AM

BFL, approximately how many SC 1TH units do you expect or will be ready to sell in october? will it be worth getting coffee warmers at all?

The relative cost per mh/s isn't too far off from the Jalapeno to the Mini Rig SC. This being the case, it's not really any particular threat if someone has a 1 TH/s mini rig vs a shopping bag of of Jalapeno's. The Jalapeno's will still be relevant as compared to their purchase price.

Purchase price comparability is jack shit compared to their comparable percentage of the hashing power you will put online with them th/s boxes, those are the main driver of the massive hash rate potential increase. If you put 100 th/s boxes online and 1000 jalapeno's (your shopping bag full analogy, BTW must be big shopping bag you need ~300 of them for it to work) then the th/s boxes are a ~28:1 advantage over the jalapeno or in other words the comparably priced mh/s jalapeno is now worth 1/28 the mh/s hashing power of a th/s box on the network. For it to be equal you would need 100 th/s boxes and ~30,000 jalapeno boxes to go online at the same time for you to imply only price matters in this post is just flat out wrong it is totally dependent on how many of each box you plan to ship in a given time frame.

You really expect 100 1th/s rigs to be ordered ($3 mln worth) ?

Were there 200 minirigs ordered when they first were announced ?

Pethaps with some glbse pooling of money people other than Giga will buy 1 or 2 of those puppies

I would be surprised to see more than 15 - 20 rigs be pre–ordered, but def 200 - 500 of the singles and many more jalapenos

DILLIGAF

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Quote from: BFL on June 23, 2012, 12:44:43 AM

Quote from: Serge on June 23, 2012, 12:38:38 AM

BFL, approximately how many SC 1TH units do you expect or will be ready to sell in october? will it be worth getting coffee warmers at all?

The relative cost per mh/s isn't too far off from the Jalapeno to the Mini Rig SC. This being the case, it's not really any particular threat if someone has a 1 TH/s mini rig vs a shopping bag of of Jalapeno's. The Jalapeno's will still be relevant as compared to their purchase price.

Purchase price comparability is jack shit compared to their comparable percentage of the hashing power you will put online with them th/s boxes, those are the main driver of the massive hash rate potential increase. If you put 100 th/s boxes online and 1000 jalapeno's (your shopping bag full analogy, BTW must be big shopping bag you need ~300 of them for it to work) then the th/s boxes are a ~28:1 advantage over the jalapeno or in other words the comparably priced mh/s jalapeno is now worth 1/28 the mh/s hashing power of a th/s box on the network. For it to be equal you would need 100 th/s boxes and ~30,000 jalapeno boxes to go online at the same time for you to imply only price matters in this post is just flat out wrong it is totally dependent on how many of each box you plan to ship in a given time frame.

BFL

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Quote from: Serge on June 23, 2012, 12:38:38 AM

BFL, approximately how many SC 1TH units do you expect or will be ready to sell in october? will it be worth getting coffee warmers at all?

The relative cost per mh/s isn't too far off from the Jalapeno to the Mini Rig SC. This being the case, it's not really any particular threat if someone has a 1 TH/s mini rig vs a shopping bag of of Jalapeno's. The Jalapeno's will still be relevant as compared to their purchase price.

Serge

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BFL, approximately how many SC 1TH units do you expect or will be ready to sell in october? will it be worth getting coffee warmers at all?

BFL

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Merit: 100

Quote from: DILLIGAF on June 22, 2012, 11:11:16 PM

Quote from: ||bit on June 22, 2012, 10:35:21 PM

Quote from: DILLIGAF on June 22, 2012, 10:22:02 PM

Edit: And I would add some people don't seem to get the idea that once these things ship that th/s is going to be the new gh/s so it is going to be $30k to get involved in BTC to be a puny player if you have 5-10gh/s farm now well do the math on that to get a couple of btc a day in return for your investment once these things are well on their way out the door.

Beat the rush, start selling your video cards now. Then maybe buy bitocins with said funds. Wait for October, and use them to make SC purchases.

More like save the BTC until next year to get the cheap ASICs that will be available once the early adopters get royally screwed again all depending on how the hash power these things have is deployed. That is why it is super critical to know how it it going to happen so people can plan accordingly. Now if small stuff goes first then the large box last four or five months later once the hash rate has built up then that can work and be manageable. The reverse large goes first no sense at all in buying any of the small stuff and if your in the third or fourth week of shipping probably the same for the large no sense buying as you will never see return matching your outlay.

All three products are set with their own production line and will begin shipments at roughly the same time.

DILLIGAF

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Quote from: ||bit on June 22, 2012, 10:35:21 PM

Quote from: DILLIGAF on June 22, 2012, 10:22:02 PM

Edit: And I would add some people don't seem to get the idea that once these things ship that th/s is going to be the new gh/s so it is going to be $30k to get involved in BTC to be a puny player if you have 5-10gh/s farm now well do the math on that to get a couple of btc a day in return for your investment once these things are well on their way out the door.

Beat the rush, start selling your video cards now. Then maybe buy bitocins with said funds. Wait for October, and use them to make SC purchases.

More like save the BTC until next year to get the cheap ASICs that will be available once the early adopters get royally screwed again all depending on how the hash power these things have is deployed. That is why it is super critical to know how it it going to happen so people can plan accordingly. Now if small stuff goes first then the large box last four or five months later once the hash rate has built up then that can work and be manageable. The reverse large goes first no sense at all in buying any of the small stuff and if your in the third or fourth week of shipping probably the same for the large no sense buying as you will never see return matching your outlay.

||bit

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Quote from: DILLIGAF on June 22, 2012, 10:22:02 PM

Edit: And I would add some people don't seem to get the idea that once these things ship that th/s is going to be the new gh/s so it is going to be $30k to get involved in BTC to be a puny player if you have 5-10gh/s farm now well do the math on that to get a couple of btc a day in return for your investment once these things are well on their way out the door.

Beat the rush, start selling your video cards now. Then maybe buy bitocins with said funds. Wait for October, and use them to make SC purchases.

-ck

legendary

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Merit: 1631

Ruu \o/

Since BitForce is a hardware company in their own words, they should help software developers like myself get access to the hardware and specs early or there will be a flurry of rushed code to try and support them as is happening right now with the minirigs. I'm guessing they will meter out their hardware from smallest/slowest to fastest as others have predicted, so it's not like they need to provide access to $30k / 1TH of hashing power to the devs while it's still a significant chunk of the network speed.

DILLIGAF

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Quote from: MrTeal on June 22, 2012, 09:50:09 PM

Quote from: DILLIGAF on June 22, 2012, 09:46:27 PM

Quote from: MrTeal on June 22, 2012, 09:24:53 PM

Quote from: DutchBrat on June 22, 2012, 09:07:11 PM

My solution:

Open up a pre–order list from Monday till mid–july, then close it.

This will give everyone ample time to order

Make an inventory of what has been ordered and start producing exactly that amount

When all the pre–Orders have been produced, pack them and ship them off at the same day in october, be it jalapenos, singles or rigs.

That way everone will receive their products around the same time

Seems fair to me. I'm not sure BFL is really terribly worried about fairness, but it is what it is.

Bet it does you probably live in the US therefore guaranteed to get your order days/weeks before everyone else.

I don't. Would you expect them to estimate the average delivery time and stagger the shipments based on that?

Quite frankly I think it should be lottery everybody gets a number for each unit ordered then you take your chances but above all BFL should announce a clear plan of how they plan to ship these boxes. For example do the th/s boxes ship first or if not when do they ship the smaller stuff going first will not have that big an impact on the overall hash rate to screw everyone over but the big boxes well different story there they have the potential to fuck everyone except the lucky few who get them in the first week or two of shipping if they go first depending on how many/fast they go out the door.

Edit: And I would add some people don't seem to get the idea that once these things ship that th/s is going to be the new gh/s so it is going to be $30k to get involved in BTC to be a puny player if you have 5-10gh/s farm now well do the math on that to get a couple of btc a day in return for your investment once these things are well on their way out the door.

quattro

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Quote from: BFL on June 22, 2012, 03:35:49 PM

Quote from: MrTeal on June 22, 2012, 03:34:11 PM

Quote from: BFL on June 22, 2012, 03:32:39 PM

We've been working with Bit-Pay for a BTC exclusive order form. This is meant to both promote the good services of Bit-Pay and give dedicated miners a bit of an advantage in getting in position. We'll have that posted later tonight. Alternate payment methods of Dwolla and BankWire will come shortly thereafter.

Please help... We're respectful of the significance of order position, but we can't think of any good way to organize it other than opening it up to orders and letting it go as it may.

Another alternative is to go odd / even. Odd being consecutive down the priority list and even being a random selection from orders that month.

Any thoughts on this?

No plans for PP or CC?

PP will come later. We don't process CC's.

Will the bit-pay order form be able to accommodate the trade credit for users that have pending orders? Will we be able to just pay the difference in bitcoin?

Topic: BitForce SC - release notes - page 4. (Read 12998 times)